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  #2821  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 10:32 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
wait, so since there is another urban core in the east coast corridor as cheap as Philly, it is not the case that Philly is cheaper than other urban cores within the east coast corridor? think about that logic for a minute. you haven't actually demonstrated that my claim is untrue.
Yes. Again, the urban parts of Jersey are as cheap or cheaper than core Philly. Northern NJ, right across the Hudson from Manhattan, has a Chicago-sized swath of higher density urbanity.

So if you wanted to be close to Manhattan, but have lower housing costs in an urban environment, you probably wouldn't first think of Philly.
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
if you wanted to be close to Manhattan, you wouldn't. but if you didn't want/need to be close to Manhattan, you might.
Right. So the primary attraction would be Philly, not Philly's relative costs to Manhattan.
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  #2822  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721
Thats actually more than most southern metros. Charlotte has 2,000 that I can find. Orlando has 0. Jacksonville has 0. The Raleigh/Durham area has 0 despite the universities.
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
sounds like places I never want to visit. (I have been to Orlando, and...well since I don't care for Disneyworld, there wasn't much to interest me).

Suburbs in search of a city.
Wait, W0t?

If you're into science and hold a highly specialized PhD or something, you would probably want to at least visit, if not move to a place like Raleigh/Durham. Everybody here knows that RDU - RTP is an American hub for science based R+D.

If you're looking for Brooklyn in NC then no, it's not the place for you.
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  #2823  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Wait, W0t?

If you're into science and hold a highly specialized PhD or something, you would probably want to at least visit, if not move to a place like Raleigh/Durham. Everybody here knows that RDU - RTP is an American hub for science based R+D.

If you're looking for Brooklyn in NC then no, it's not the place for you.
I've been to UNC-Chapel Hill. First rate uni in my field. Did not get the opportunity to visit nearby cities (drive-by). Skirted Raleigh.
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  #2824  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I've been to UNC-Chapel Hill. First rate uni in my field. Did not get the opportunity to visit nearby cities (drive-by). Skirted Raleigh.
Oh yeah, UNC is top notch, I thought you read it was a place you wouldn't visit though. Chapel Hill is part of the greater RDU area. Sorry for the confusion, thanks for the clarification! And suburban it is and hopefully remains so, the forest is beautiful there.

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  #2825  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
93,758,171 people live in census tracts exceeding 5000/sqmi.
So 1/3 of the country live in an urban or quasi urban area environment . Not bad , wonder what the percentage growth is ?
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  #2826  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
sounds like places I never want to visit. (I have been to Orlando, and...well since I don't care for Disneyworld, there wasn't much to interest me).

Suburbs in search of a city.
That's a good description of Raleigh. My sister lives there and it's just a ton of suburban sprawl with very little in the way of an urban center. Charlotte's downtown, on the other hand, is lightyears ahead of anything in Raleigh, and is in the same league as Austin, IMO. But away from downtown, Charlotte is mostly low density sprawl, and even quasi-rural in some areas, similar to Atlanta.
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  #2827  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
Thanks! The current list:

New York: 9,151,543
Los Angeles: 1,919,006
Chicago: 1,238,801
San Francisco: 899,765
Philadelphia: 841,729
Boston: 727,666
Washington: 501,510
Miami: 396,021
Honolulu: 182,167
Seattle: 160,101
San Diego: 103,421
Houston: 88,080
Baltimore: 67,095
San Jose: 64,724
Dallas: 54,893
Minneapolis: 52,998
Denver: 49,423
Milwaukee: 47,988
Bridgeport: 47,791
Providence: 39,442
Portland: 38,057
Madison: 35,514
Columbus: 31,592
Allentown: 29,319
Atlanta: 26,589
Worcester: 26,374
Las Vegas: 26,114
Austin: 23,224
Champaign: 22,271
Salinas: 21,893
Phoenix: 20,351
Great work. I wanted to calculate the proportion of each metro area listed...

Percentage of Metro Area(MSA) Population in 20,000PPSM Census Tracts:
45.4% New York: 9,151,543
18.9% San Francisco: 899,765
17.9% Honolulu: 182,167
14.7% Boston: 727,666
14.5% Los Angeles: 1,919,006
13.4% Philadelphia: 841,729
12.8% Chicago: 1,238,801
10.0% Champaign: 22,271
7.8% Washington: 501,510
6.4% Miami: 396,021
5.2% Madison: 35,514
4.9% Bridgeport: 47,791
4.9% Salinas: 21,351
3.9% Seattle: 160,101
3.4% Allentown: 29,319
3.2% San Jose: 64,724
3.1% Milwaukee: 47,988
3.1% San Diego: 103,421
2.6% Worcester: 26,374
2.3% Baltimore: 67,095
2.3% Providence: 39,442
1.6% Denver: 49,423
1.5% Portland: 38,057
1.4% Columbus: 31,592
1.4% Minneapolis: 52,998
1.2% Houston: 88,080
1.1% Las Vegas: 26,114
1.0% Austin: 23,224
0.7% Dallas: 54,893
0.4% Atlanta: 26,589
0.4% Phoenix: 20,351
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  #2828  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Right. So the primary attraction would be Philly, not Philly's relative costs to Manhattan.
Thank you for making that point. It's exhausting to hear the constant cliché of Philadelphia's turnaround only being possible by happenstance of being near NYC.

Not so in the least.
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  #2829  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
So 1/3 of the country live in an urban or quasi urban area environment . Not bad , wonder what the percentage growth is ?
In most of developed and mid-income countries, however, this number would be close to 100%.
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  #2830  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
In most of developed and mid-income countries, however, this number would be close to 100%.
Urban in this case means high(er) density while in the more broader sense meaning in or around a city of which 80% of the US population is "urban".
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  #2831  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
In most of developed and mid-income countries, however, this number would be close to 100%.
Check out the population densities and built environments of suburban Stockholm or Frankfurt or Helsinki, or suburban UK

three -four story flats surrounding a parking lot and surrounded by small clumps of forest is not appreciably more urban than gridded Miami or Vegas style sprawl
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  #2832  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 1:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Check out the population densities and built environments of suburban Stockholm or Frankfurt or Helsinki, or suburban UK

three -four story flats surrounding a parking lot and surrounded by small clumps of forest is not appreciably more urban than gridded Miami or Vegas style sprawl
You mentioned 5,000 inh./sq miles or 1,900 inh/km² (I really need to make the conversion to make sense of it). I can't think of any urban area in Europe or Latin America below this density. Even in Canada, there are not that many these days.
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  #2833  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 1:43 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
You mentioned 5,000 inh./sq miles or 1,900 inh/km² (I really need to make the conversion to make sense of it). I can't think of any urban area in Europe or Latin America below this density. Even in Canada, there are not that many these days.
Perhaps you haven’t looked ?


http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

Melbourne
Sydney
Quebec City
Toulouse
Marseilles
Nice
Ottawa
Bordeaux
Edmonton


All around 5000-sq mile and in the developed world

And the American densities are hindered by the extremely low density urban fringe , which covers a lot of land and holds few people .
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  #2834  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 1:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
Great work. I wanted to calculate the proportion of each metro area listed...

Percentage of Metro Area(MSA) Population in 20,000PPSM Census Tracts:
45.4% New York: 9,151,543
18.9% San Francisco: 899,765
17.9% Honolulu: 182,167
14.7% Boston: 727,666
14.5% Los Angeles: 1,919,006
13.4% Philadelphia: 841,729
12.8% Chicago: 1,238,801
10.0% Champaign: 22,271
7.8% Washington: 501,510
6.4% Miami: 396,021
5.2% Madison: 35,514
4.9% Bridgeport: 47,791
4.9% Salinas: 21,351
3.9% Seattle: 160,101
3.4% Allentown: 29,319
3.2% San Jose: 64,724
3.1% Milwaukee: 47,988
3.1% San Diego: 103,421
2.6% Worcester: 26,374
2.3% Baltimore: 67,095
2.3% Providence: 39,442
1.6% Denver: 49,423
1.5% Portland: 38,057
1.4% Columbus: 31,592
1.4% Minneapolis: 52,998
1.2% Houston: 88,080
1.1% Las Vegas: 26,114
1.0% Austin: 23,224
0.7% Dallas: 54,893
0.4% Atlanta: 26,589
0.4% Phoenix: 20,351
Thanks! Check out Honolulu's percentage. When you're between the ocean and a mountain range, you get dense quickly. I once calculated state weighted densities from 2010, and Hawaii is second behind only New York.
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  #2835  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That's a good description of Raleigh. My sister lives there and it's just a ton of suburban sprawl with very little in the way of an urban center. Charlotte's downtown, on the other hand, is lightyears ahead of anything in Raleigh, and is in the same league as Austin, IMO. But away from downtown, Charlotte is mostly low density sprawl, and even quasi-rural in some areas, similar to Atlanta.
Charlotte’s downtown is kind of a boring 9-5 affair, completely unlike Austin. It may have a comparable skyline, but the on the ground pedestrian experience and expanse of pedestrian realm in Austin is light years ahead of Charlotte despite Charlotte’s transit investment.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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  #2836  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 2:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
From UCLA Newsroom:

UCLA research pinpoints where 2020 census undercounts were most likely in L.A. County

Les Dunseith | August 19, 2021

Prior to the 2020 U.S. census, many observers feared that large segments of the population would be undercounted. Those fears appear to have been realized, according to a UCLA analysis of the census data.

The study, conducted by the UCLA Center for Neighborhood Knowledge, found that in Los Angeles County, residents in some neighborhoods were much more likely than others to be excluded from the 2020 census. Specifically, the research (PDF) concluded that — at the census-tract level — undercounts were most likely in areas where the majority of residents are Hispanic or Asian, have lower incomes, rent their homes or were born outside of the U.S.

Paul Ong, a research professor at the UCLA Luskin School of Public Affairs, and Jonathan Ong of Ong and Associates, a public-interest consulting firm, combed through data published Aug. 12 by the U.S. Census Bureau.

“The results are, unfortunately, consistent with our worst fear that the 2020 enumeration faced numerous potentially insurmountable barriers to a complete and accurate count,” Paul Ong said.

The research team compared the information to earlier population estimates drawn from the census bureau’s American Community Survey to determine whether and where the 2020 enumeration appeared to undercount or overcount the population within each neighborhood in Los Angeles County.

A key difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 census, Paul Ong said, is that the COVID-19 pandemic severely affected data collection for the census. Previous research showed that disruption was particularly pronounced in disadvantaged neighborhoods. That appears to have created a “differential undercount,” meaning that some populations were more likely than other groups not to be counted. That, in turn, means that the scope of ethnic diversity and demographic change in cities like Los Angeles could be significantly underestimated, he said.



Based on comparisons between the latest census data and the most recent American Community Survey estimates, the UCLA study found that in Los Angeles County:

-Predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods are most likely to have the largest undercounts in the census.

-Neighborhoods with the greatest percentage of people living below the poverty line were most likely to have undercounts.

-Neighborhoods with larger percentages of renters, as opposed to homeowners, were more likely to have undercounts.

-Census tracts in which most people are U.S.-born were more likely to be accurately counted than predominantly immigrant neighborhoods.

The pandemic wasn’t the only factor that hampered data collection for the 2020 census. The effort was also adversely affected by the Trump administration’s highly publicized push to include a citizenship question on the questionnaire. Although that effort was ultimately unsuccessful, Paul Ong said the controversy may have depressed participation among immigrants, whether they were undocumented or not.

“The findings indicate that the needless politicization of the 2020 enumeration seriously dampened participation by those targeted by the Trump administration,” he said.

Problems with the self-reporting aspect of the census placed greater pressure on the subsequent on-the-ground outreach in which census-takers canvassed nonresponding households. The success of that follow-up drive will not be known until a post-census analysis is conducted, which is scheduled for 2022.

The UCLA analysis is consistent with results from previous studies that have shown undercounts likelier to occur in disadvantaged communities. How residents are counted is important because census results influence legislative redistricting and government spending, which means the results can have serious political and economic implications.

“Given the analysis, it is imperative that we address the inequality in the census to ensure fair political representation in redistricting,” Paul Ong said.

Unlike previous corrective efforts, which address census undercounts based on national statistics and results from a comparatively small number of districts, the UCLA research relied on data specific to each neighborhood. As a result, Paul Ong said, the new approach should be more accurate and precise, and it could ultimately help officials understand how to adjust population statistics to account for the differential bias in completing the 2020 census and future counts.



Undercounts are of most concern, but the technique could also help identify overcounts, which are rarer but can occur. Military redeployments may lead to overcounts, for example; other situations include some students who get counted twice while splitting time between home and college, and miscounts of people with second homes or people who experience a stay in a nursing home while also holding a permanent residence.

Ong & Associates, of which Paul Ong is the founder, provided services pro bono for the study.

Link: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/2...angeles-county
Definitely makes sense. I feel like LA is always severely undercounted. With our incompetent leadership, we never get a recount or corrections to the numbers since they never push for it like NYC and other cities do and get shafted on funding
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  #2837  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 2:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Perhaps you haven’t looked ?


http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

Melbourne
Sydney
Quebec City
Toulouse
Marseilles
Nice
Ottawa
Bordeaux
Edmonton


All around 5000-sq mile and in the developed world

And the American densities are hindered by the extremely low density urban fringe , which covers a lot of land and holds few people .
All the French cities mentioned by you are above this density, and they’re the less dense of Europe. Canadian and Australian urban form mimics the US, although a bit denser.

The point stands: virtually all the population in Europe and Latin America live in environments above 1,900 inh/km2 whereas in the US, according to you, it’s only 39%.
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  #2838  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 2:36 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
All the French cities mentioned by you are above this density, and they’re the less dense of Europe. Canadian and Australian urban form mimics the US, although a bit denser.

The point stands: virtually all the population in Europe and Latin America live in environments above 1,900 inh/km2 whereas in the US, according to you, it’s only 39%.
I mean, there are rural areas in all those countries, aren't there? Romania is only 54% urbanized (though the villages are pretty dense, to be honest).
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  #2839  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Charlotte’s downtown is kind of a boring 9-5 affair, completely unlike Austin. It may have a comparable skyline, but the on the ground pedestrian experience and expanse of pedestrian realm in Austin is light years ahead of Charlotte despite Charlotte’s transit investment.
Nah, Austin definitely isn't lightyears ahead of Charlotte. They are pretty well matched. I can't think of a metric where one would be the clear winner over the other, other than Austin hosting SXSW.

Edit: Actually, Charlotte probably has the edge on number of hotel rooms.
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  #2840  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Nah, Austin definitely isn't lightyears ahead of Charlotte. They are pretty well matched. I can't think of a metric where one would be the clear winner over the other, other than Austin hosting SXSW.

Edit: Actually, Charlotte probably has the edge on number of hotel rooms.
Been to both cities recently. Was pleasantly surprised with Charlotte. I still like the vibe of Austin more, but Charlotte has real potential. It just needs to continue doing what it’s doing.
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