Canadian Airport Thread

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by zahav

How are everyone's airports doing with international and transborder nowadays? I randomly checked YVR and YYC, and YVR has 8 international departures and 21 transborder departures, while YYC had 2 international departures and 11 transborder departures. Both vast improvements in transborder over a few months ago, but international is still pretty sparse.

YOW is holding steady at a solid zero and zero apiece respectively. YOW's supposed to have transborder back in October and international back in November. However, for transatlantic, it's looking like it'll be 2023 before it's back, which will almost certainly be much, much, much, much later than anyone else that had pre-pandemic transatlantic, save YYT. Even Condor are showing YXY as resuming in summer 2022.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

How are everyone's airports doing with international and transborder nowadays? I randomly checked YVR and YYC, and YVR has 8 international departures and 21 transborder departures, while YYC had 2 international departures and 11 transborder departures. Both vast improvements in transborder over a few months ago, but international is still pretty sparse.

Don't have the time to compile US or Caribbean flights, which there is a lot of now. But.....

YUL International departures for today, as of 3 pm. (so not counting departures before then. Probably only AM to MEX and Copa to PTY before then. And excluding cargo only flights)

Air Canada - FRA, CDG x2, ATH, LIS, BRU, CMN
Air Maroc - CMN x2
Air France - CDG x2
KLM - AMS
Lufthansa - FRA
Qatar - DOH
Air Transat - CDG
TAP Air Portugal - LIS
TK - IST

So that's 17 long haul departures for today.

Some other interesting stats.

Daily average summer movements at YUL pre-pandemic: ~850
Daily average movements last winter: 100-150
Daily average movements now: ~400.

A lot of this is domestic turboprop stuff though, the likes of Pascan, Provincial, etc, which have picked up service on intra-Quebec flights since AC canceled a lot of routes. A lot of GA activity as well. So the 400 movements vs 850 doesn't translate to half the passengers compared to 2019. Not even close. Nevertheless, the passenger numbers are on the rise, and the increase in movements is nice to see.

[hehehe]

I'm a little surprised that LH is going 3x week YHZ-FRA on the A340 in S22. I could be wrong but that seems to be a little bit too much capacity?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Daily average summer movements at YUL pre-pandemic: ~850
Daily average movements last winter: 100-150
Daily average movements now: ~400.

We're in the high 400's now in YYC during the week. We count the Itinerants, not daily total.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm a little surprised that LH is going 3x week YHZ-FRA on the A340 in S22. I could be wrong but that seems to be a little bit too much capacity?

It will actually be flown by Eurowings, the LH flight # and A340 are just placeholders for now.

I believe its the same for the YYC flights as well.

[Coldrsx]

Seven regional airports across the Prairies receiving more than $8 million to maintain regional connectivity and jobs

https://www.canada.ca/en/prairies-econom...tain-regional-connectivity-and-jobs.html

[thenoflyzone]

So the Federal government has been dishing out a lot of cash to airports lately. Most of that money is coming from two new programs launched last May. I wanted to compile all the data available so far to see which airport/region got what.

But first, a recap of what the programs are.

The Airport Critical Infrastructure Program (ACIP) is a new program providing close to $490 million to financially assist Canada’s larger airports with investments in critical infrastructure-related to safety, security or connectivity;

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/05/airport-critical-infrastructure-program.html

The Airport Relief Fund (ARF) is a new program providing almost $65 million in financial relief to targeted Canadian airports to help maintain operations. Avlb to airports with revenues less than $250 million a year.

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/05/airport-relief-fund.html

ACIP funding announced so far (list might be incomplete as of this date)

YUL $100 million (REM)
YYC $57.5 million (rehabilitate runway 17R/35L)
YVR $38.4 million
YEG $18.5 million
YXE $10.9 million
YWG $7 million
YOW $6.4 million (LRT)
YHM $2 million

ARF funding announced so far (list might be incomplete as of this date)

YEG $6.2 million
YWG $5.7 million
YXE $2.8 million
YHM $2.6 million

There is also another program, the Regional Air Transportation Initiative (RATI) which is a $206-million program that will provide support over two years to eligible regional businesses and airports that directly contribute to regional air transportation. This money is available to local and regional airlines, airports and other businesses that are part of the regional air transportation ecosystem.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/icgc.nsf/eng/07721.html

From what we know so far, here is the breakdown of what each region will get. The total figures for the Prairie provinces, Northern territories or Pacific regions aren't disclosed yet, but several press releases for funding of their regional airports have been announced already. More is to come, surely.

Quebec - $59.2 million
Atlantic Canada - $41.2 milion
Southern Ontario - $24.2 million (YXU - $4.5 million)
Northern Ontario - Total ? YQT $3.5 million, 5 other airports $4.1 million
Prairies - Total ?, but it was announced that 14 regional airports will get over $ 12.4 million.
Pacific - Total ?, but it was announced that 11 regional airports in BC will be receiving over $11.7 million.
North - Total ?

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

So the Federal government has been dishing out a lot of cash to airports lately. Most of that money is coming from two new programs launched last May. I wanted to compile all the data available so far to see which airport/region got what.

But first, a recap of what the programs are.

The Airport Critical Infrastructure Program (ACIP) is a new program providing close to $490 million to financially assist Canada’s larger airports with investments in critical infrastructure-related to safety, security or connectivity;

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/05/airport-critical-infrastructure-program.html

The Airport Relief Fund (ARF) is a new program providing almost $65 million in financial relief to targeted Canadian airports to help maintain operations. Avlb to airports with revenues less than $250 million a year.

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2021/05/airport-relief-fund.html

ACIP funding announced so far (list might be incomplete as of this date)

YUL $100 million (REM)
YYC $57.5 million (rehabilitate runway 17R/35L)
YVR $38.4 million
YEG $18.5 million
YXE $10.9 million
YWG $7 million
YOW $6.4 million (LRT)
YHM $2 million

ARF funding announced so far (list might be incomplete as of this date)

YEG $6.2 million
YWG $5.7 million
YXE $2.8 million
YHM $2.6 million

There is also another program, the Regional Air Transportation Initiative (RATI) which is a $206-million program that will provide support over two years to eligible regional businesses and airports that directly contribute to regional air transportation. This money is available to local and regional airlines, airports and other businesses that are part of the regional air transportation ecosystem.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/icgc.nsf/eng/07721.html

From what we know so far, here is the breakdown of what each region will get. The total figures for the Prairie provinces, Northern territories or Pacific regions aren't disclosed yet, but several press releases for funding of their regional airports have been announced already. More is to come, surely.

Quebec - $59.2 million
Atlantic Canada - $41.2 milion
Southern Ontario - $24.2 million (YXU - $4.5 million)
Northern Ontario - Total ? YQT $3.5 million, 5 other airports $4.1 million
Prairies - Total ?, but it was announced that 14 regional airports will get over $ 12.4 million.
Pacific - Total ?, but it was announced that 11 regional airports in BC will be receiving over $11.7 million.
North - Total ?

There’s also the remote air services program available to the provinces/territories, who in turn dish out $ to the airlines. For this program, the more remote airports a province/territory has, the bigger the contribution.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

It will actually be flown by Eurowings, the LH flight # and A340 are just placeholders for now.

I believe its the same for the YYC flights as well.

Ah ok thanks!! Does Eurowings even have long haul planes though?
Nevermind, they're using Eurowings Discover.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm a little surprised that LH is going 3x week YHZ-FRA on the A340 in S22. I could be wrong but that seems to be a little bit too much capacity?

Not if you count what will most likely be transported below deck, back to Europe. This route makes sense on the passenger side and cargo side. 3x weekly is definitely not overkill.

LH A343s have a few dozen more seats than the Condor B763s. It’s not overkill by any means.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm a little surprised that LH is going 3x week YHZ-FRA on the A340 in S22. I could be wrong but that seems to be a little bit too much capacity?

There's going to be lots of capacity with Condor also flying between Frankfurt and Halifax next year. Condor flights actually resume for this Sept and October then start-up again next April.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Not if you count what will most likely be transported below deck, back to Europe. This route makes sense on the passenger side and cargo side. 3x weekly is definitely not overkill.

LH A343s have a few dozen more seats than the Condor B763s. It’s not overkill by any means.

These are situations where I daydream about what a 321XLR could do. Daily flights would be so much better.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

These are situations where I daydream about what a 321XLR could do. Daily flights would be so much better.

The A321XLR would be a fantastic aircraft for Air Canada. It would allow their smaller Eastern Canada stations better options for connectivity to Europe without forcing people through their hubs. It would also help with flights between big Eastern Canada hubs and secondary European destinations. However, I'm not sure it has the legs for transatlantic from Western Canada.

Alas, I'm not sure it is in the cards for the immediate future due to AC's weakened financial state. I'm also not sure what AC wants to do with their narrowbody fleet at this juncture - do they want to go exclusively 737 MAX or are they rethinking that plan and looking at the A321neo?

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by hehehe

Ah ok thanks!! Does Eurowings even have long haul planes though?
Nevermind, they're using Eurowings Discover.

Lufthansa has about the most convoluted brand structure in the airline world.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Lufthansa has about the most convoluted brand structure in the airline world.

I agree! Germanwings (doesn't exist anymore, right?) Cityline, Eurowings, Eurowings discover, and the 5 other airlines it pretty much controls. Wow.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

There's going to be lots of capacity with Condor also flying between Frankfurt and Halifax next year. Condor flights actually resume for this Sept and October then start-up again next April.

It’s bizarre that YHZ will have two airlines competing for FRA, while YOW at this point has both zero FRA and zero transatlantic for 2022.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

It’s bizarre that YHZ will have two airlines competing for FRA, while YOW at this point has both zero FRA and zero transatlantic for 2022.

Why? The conventional SSP wisdom is that Ottawa's metro population is multiple times larger and so it should have multiple times more of everything. But YHZ is a regional hub in many respects while YOW is right next to YUL. YHZ is also on the edge of the continent while YOW is not, so if you are flying to Frankfurt via a hub from YOW you don't have to backtrack whereas you would from YHZ (except YYT but the same people who find YHZ service levels puzzling should be even more confused by YYT). I don't have strong feelings about how many Frankfurt flights there should be out of either airport but I think it becomes less obvious when you start taking more factors into account.

[jamincan]

I think YHZ is also important for shipments of seafood back to Europe.

[thenoflyzone]

From last week, at YUL customs. Disaster. 2 to 4h wait. Tight lineups, no social distancing. Wait times are apparently the same over at YYZ.

Link in french only. No need to read though, just watch the video.

https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2021/08/09/cohue-a-laeroport-de-montreal

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

From last week, at YUL customs. Disaster. 2 to 4h wait. Tight lineups, no social distancing. Wait times are apparently the same over at YYZ.

Link in french only. No need to read though, just watch the video.

https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2021/08/09/cohue-a-laeroport-de-montreal

I think all of the big airports are facing long lineups at security/customs, as they weren't able to staff up fast enough.

Here's a story on the issue at YYC:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/c...richard-bertram-erin-cipollone-1.6140615