AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[electricron]

Originally Posted by H2O

Underground rail stations (subways) typically have at least 2 levels. There is the station platform level, and a mezzanine level that allows you to cross over the tracks to go the other direction, or access a center platform. The mezzanine level typically connects to surface level entrances and to adjacent properties. The longer the trains are (like in heavy rail subways), the entrances can be quite far apart and mezzanines can be quite long. When there is an exchange station where trains running different directions cross, they are at different levels as well and may have more than one mezzanine level connecting them. They can get quite complex!

All true, but you forgot to mention another reason why the tracks are usually two levels down, or possibly three levels down. Sewer, water, electric, telephone, cable, and other utilities buried in the first level below grade. So an additional level down is usually required. In a few places where these utility lines are spread out thinly, there's room for a mezzanine deck. Which does not have to parallel with the tracks, it could be perpendicular to the tracks, so as not having to have the entrances and exists at grade in the middle of a street.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by electricron

All true, but you forgot to mention another reason why the tracks are usually two levels down, or possibly three levels down. Sewer, water, electric, telephone, cable, and other utilities buried in the first level below grade. So an additional level down is usually required. In a few places where these utility lines are spread out thinly, there's room for a mezzanine deck. Which does not have to parallel with the tracks, it could be perpendicular to the tracks, so as not having to have the entrances and exists at grade in the middle of a street.

Good point. The schematics do seem to account for that. Fortunately, thanks to an ordinance reserving 4th Street as a rail corridor, put in place over 20 years ago, 4th Street has fewer large utilities than other streets Downtown. Of course the north / south segments of the tunnel do cross some significant utilities (water, sewer, wastewater, gas, electric, fiber, and chilled water) that will necessitate the tunnels being fairly deep.

[Novacek]

The orange/blue virtual open houses are now up. They include some pretty detailed schematic pdfs.

https://capmetro.org/get-involved

Edit/Add: some potentially interesting notes from the orange line presentation.

" Slaughter Station would likely be near the Ralph Ablenedo Drive and would include a park-and-ride connected to I-35. This connection would provide convenient access for those coming from the south on I-35. "

"It is critical that the guideway line up to cross over I35 to hit Center Ridge Drive on the other side because TxDOT is proposing to connect the managed lanes of I35 to the Tech Ridge Park and Ride"

They don't really go into details as to what form "connected to I35" would take on the south end, whether it would be new ramps/T-ramps. But it does start to seem likely that the location there (short of Slaughter) is at least partially due to I35 connectivity.

If they were to have direct connections on both ends, you could eventually see buses from Round Rock/San Marcos traveling in carpool lanes and transferring directly to the Orange line. Would have been better with full tolled managed lanes and 10-15 minute frequency highway BRT (like as was originally proposed for I35), but maybe in a few more decades.

[ahealy]

Might be 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 question o'clock, but do we know what our rail will actually be called?? Like SF with BART, Paris' Metro, Dallas' DART, Etc.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by ahealy

Might be 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 question o'clock, but do we know what our rail will actually be called?? Like SF with BART, Paris' Metro, Dallas' DART, Etc.

Could call it ART (austin rapid transit) though that muddies the water a bit with the autonomous stuff they were previously talking about.

Could just call it Capital Metro. You don't really want people seeing the light rail lines as entirely separate from the metrorapids, gold line, and even the normal buses. A lot of rides will be transferring back and forth, there will/should be unified ticketing, etc.

So I guess given that, they'll probably also call it Metrorail like the red line. Especially once the frequency is increased on the later they'll serve a lot of the same purposes.

[Sigaven]

I think another "-ART" acronym would be annoying. I know we have CARTS but hopefully we don't use that. Just call it Capital Metro or Metrorail, much more grown up and not trying to be cute.

[drummer]

I've always assumed it would just be Metrorail.

[Novacek]

Buried in the Q&A for today's council meeting (regarding the ATP joint powers and transfer of funds) are some $ numbers.

Looks like ATP should be getting $148M from CoA for the 2020 taxes. And for 2021 they're projecting ~161M (I don't think appraisals and the tax rate are final yet).

https://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=364683

[nixcity]

This is in response to a discussion about burying I35 through downtown and capping it that was occurring on another thread. Who you vote for has consequences. The new infrastructure bill would transfer the responsibility to the local taxpayer. Yay for further increasing the burdens of municipalities to take care of the basic needs of its' citizens!!!!

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/08/02/v...am-axed-from-fed-infrastructure-package/

[drummer]

Anyone have a clear update on what's happening with the Oak Hill Expressway? I heard it started, then paused due to tree clearing or something, then started again, then not? Anyone have accurate info?

[Lobotomizer]

Originally Posted by drummer

Anyone have a clear update on what's happening with the Oak Hill Expressway? I heard it started, then paused due to tree clearing or something, then started again, then not? Anyone have accurate info?

Construction did not stop, but pending a September 2 hearing tree removal has temporarily halted.
https://communityimpact.com/austin/south...oak-hill-parkway-construction-continues/

[Lobotomizer]

These are similar tactics used to try and stop the improvements on Mopac at Slaughter and LaCrosse. The lawsuit is a hailmary attempt at getting a judge to stop construction.

[drummer]

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by nixcity

This is in response to a discussion about burying I35 through downtown and capping it that was occurring on another thread. Who you vote for has consequences. The new infrastructure bill would transfer the responsibility to the local taxpayer. Yay for further increasing the burdens of municipalities to take care of the basic needs of its' citizens!!!!

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/08/02/v...am-axed-from-fed-infrastructure-package/

Your link says nothing about "transferring responsibility to the local taxpayer."

Current federal contribution to highway removal: $0.

Amount in new budget : some number other than 0.

That's decreasing the burden on municipalities (those that get awards) or at least leaving it the same. Not an increase.

[nixcity]

^Lol, it is 1 Billion for the whole country. Our cap alone will cost more than that, in other words, this will keep the current federal contributions at essentially zero. Biden's original proposal was for TWENTY billion for highway removal, that would have been enough to at least get a percentage of our bill paid. As of right now there is zero increase to Austinites; this will change once we are ready to budget for a cap and now that there will be no funding for us available from the feds we will probably have to pass a hefty bond that will be on all of us to pay for.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by nixcity

^Lol, it is 1 Billion for the whole country. Our cap alone will cost more than that, in other words, this will keep the current federal contributions at essentially zero. Biden's original proposal was for TWENTY billion for highway removal, that would have been enough to at least get a percentage of our bill paid.

Exactly, so at worst it's the status quo. No "further increasing the burdens of municipalities to take care of the basic needs of its' citizens!!!!"


And there isn't much difference between zero and some hypothetical single digit percentage federal crumb. As you said, a cap in Austin would be $$$ and we'd be far behind so many projects that have been approved for years, projects where the state would be contributing (which wouldn't be the case for Austin's cap), etc. Even $20B wouldn't go far enough to trickle down to us.

A cap in Austin was always going to have to be locally funded. This doesn't really change that.

[Maximusx1]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Exactly, so at worst it's the status quo. No "further increasing the burdens of municipalities to take care of the basic needs of its' citizens!!!!"


And there isn't much difference between zero and some hypothetical single digit percentage federal crumb. As you said, a cap in Austin would be $$$ and we'd be far behind so many projects that have been approved for years, projects where the state would be contributing (which wouldn't be the case for Austin's cap), etc. Even $20B wouldn't go far enough to trickle down to us.

A cap in Austin was always going to have to be locally funded. This doesn't really change that.

Agreed, and to add: we're the ones benefiting from a cap, so we should be the ones to pay for the cap. I don't see why anyone can have a problem with that.

[We vs us]

Looks like the $1T infrastructure bill just passed the Senate, and will almost certainly pass the House. Do we know if Project Connect is included? Or maybe is part of a larger bucket that will be parcelled out later?

[KevinFromTexas]

I noticed more core samples being done on South Congress yesterday around the South Congress Hotel.

[JAM]

Originally Posted by nixcity

This is in response to a discussion about burying I35 through downtown and capping it that was occurring on another thread. Who you vote for has consequences. The new infrastructure bill would transfer the responsibility to the local taxpayer. Yay for further increasing the burdens of municipalities to take care of the basic needs of its' citizens!!!!

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/08/02/v...am-axed-from-fed-infrastructure-package/

Ha, that article has a lot of big words. Gonna have to look up some of them: inclusive economic development, environmental justice, anti-displacement protections, capacity building.......

Don't think we need to bury I-35 to make all that happen, didn't gentrification already take care of that