DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Arapahoe

Zoning permit for Block 176 (Amacon) was approved and issued on July 15th of this month.

Again though... Where's the website for sales? Why is the project not really on Amacon's website? Not saying there's a 0% chance of it happening, but there's no real substantial updates on it, aside from permits going through the city council every now and again.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I totally understand your skepticism on Block 176 but isn't this permitting process fairly expensive? I'm not an expert or even involved in the industry but that was my understanding. To the extent that this permitting process is as expensive as I've heard, seems like a lot of money for a seemingly experienced and well-capitalized developer to sink without an eventual payoff beyond selling the parking lots.

[mhays]

Is it just land holding costs, legal costs, and staff time? Or have they done much design? Are big City fees involved?

If just the first items, that might not be much costs compared to a land value change in the several millions.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I totally understand your skepticism on Block 176 but isn't this permitting process fairly expensive? I'm not an expert or even involved in the industry but that was my understanding. To the extent that this permitting process is as expensive as I've heard, seems like a lot of money for a seemingly experienced and well-capitalized developer to sink without an eventual payoff beyond selling the parking lots.

Zoning permit for this project, which is based on the overall valuation, is $62,460.00.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by mhays

Is it just land holding costs, legal costs, and staff time? Or have they done much design? Are big City fees involved?

If just the first items, that might not be much costs compared to a land value change in the several millions.

Design work has definitely been done. Mechanical, electrical, plumbing drawings, etc. have all been submitted so I'm going to assume that there is an entire design package floating around.

How much does something like that run for a two-tower, 38-storey project? $10M? $20M?

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Design work has definitely been done. Mechanical, electrical, plumbing drawings, etc. have all been submitted so I'm going to assume that there is an entire design package floating around.

How much does something like that run for a two-tower, 38-storey project? $10M? $20M?

What are we talking about you think, a $300mil construction cost? Typically architect and engineer design fees for a larger more complex tower like those would likely run in the range of 4-7% of total construction cost, so you are probably in the ballpark. Though the fees would also include construction administration services which are only spent during construction.

[Arapahoe]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

What are we talking about you think, a $300mil construction cost? Typically architect and engineer design fees for a larger more complex tower like those would likely run in the range of 4-7% of total construction cost, so you are probably in the ballpark. Though the fees would also include construction administration services which are only spent during construction.

Construction Valuation Total: $124,620,000

Building permits they've already paid: $228,299

Property taxes they paid this year for the vacant lot: $203,058

The last time they uploaded a document to the city permitting system was last Wednesday, July 21. (new drawings)

This Amacon project is very much alive.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Design work has definitely been done. Mechanical, electrical, plumbing drawings, etc. have all been submitted so I'm going to assume that there is an entire design package floating around.

How much does something like that run for a two-tower, 38-storey project? $10M? $20M?

Several million bucks in design...but add in the land and they're into this for tens of millions. No backing down now! Maybe they could flip the site with it's design and get out of it with a breakeven but that'd be a long shot given they paid top dollar for the site.

[The Dirt]

This is kind of silly as this article was published yesterday but the groundbreaking was 8 days prior, and judging by the photo, the actual groundbreaking clearly happened weeks earlier since there's concrete pillars already poured.

"On Tuesday July 20, Crescent Communities broke ground on the mixed-use, multifamily community NOVEL RiNo in Denver’s River North Art District and Cole neighborhood. NOVEL RiNo, located at 1300 40th Street, will include 483 luxury residences and 15,800 square feet of retail space. A percentage of the residences will be designated for affordable housing."


https://milehighcre.com/novel-rino-breaks-ground/

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Yeah that project is actually surprisingly far along. Drove by yesterday.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

This is kind of silly as this article was published yesterday but the groundbreaking was 8 days prior, and judging by the photo, the actual groundbreaking clearly happened weeks earlier since there's concrete pillars already poured.

Reminds me of Union Denver "breaking ground" when there were two tower cranes already up. I guess it's exactly the same as Novel. Makes no sense to me. Oh BTW, Union Denver (great name) is now called Sen+Ral for a play on the word central. These lost property management / marketing companies make me all warm and fuzzy inside.

[The Dirt]

Hey, it's better than S*Park, which will always live rent-free in my brain as 🞵🞵🞵🞵 Park.

[rds70]

A couple of interesting concept plan submittals to the City this week:

The X Company has revised the request for 2000 Welton. It was originally submitted as an 18 story, 409 unit project. It has been resubmitted as a 23 story building with 344 units.

A plan has been submitted for a 16 story multi family building at 3600 Wynkoop. 407 units are proposed.

[coolmandan03]

Originally Posted by rds70

The X Company has revised the request for 2000 Welton. It was originally submitted as an 18 story, 409 unit project. It has been resubmitted as a 23 story building with 344 units.

I just went to Woods Boss Brewery yesterday at 22nd and California. The amount of tents and homeless people on the sidewalks was incredible. How is there so much demand to live in this area? Who is renting these? If I was new in town and signed a lease, I wouldn't stick around a second year...

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

I just went to Woods Boss Brewery yesterday at 22nd and California. The amount of tents and homeless people on the sidewalks was incredible. How is there so much demand to live in this area? Who is renting these? If I was new in town and signed a lease, I wouldn't stick around a second year...

Yeah, the A-square area is real rough. I don't get it either, though location-wise it's the best/easiest place to put lots of high density residential in the city. Not sure if the REITs/development companies building these structures are hoping that this is a temporary predicament (Narrator: it's not). When I lived in Curtis Park, I just avoided going south of 24th most of the time (which was a shame, since Woods Boss is huge and makes a nice "third place" though the beer is meh, and Carbon is good for coffee and donuts and fizzy water on tap). Had too many encounters with aggressive tent dwellers, not to mention all the murders. I definitely wouldn't recommend a woman to rent in one of those new buildings.

Would have liked to see the city anticipate the development here by building a park or square to live up to the name, as well as getting a head start on planting shade trees. I'm curious what things will be like around there in 10+ years.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Yeah, the A-square area is real rough. I don't get it either, though location-wise it's the best/easiest place to put lots of high density residential in the city. Not sure if the REITs/development companies building these structures are hoping that this is a temporary predicament (Narrator: it's not). When I lived in Curtis Park, I just avoided going south of 24th most of the time (which was a shame, since Woods Boss is huge and makes a nice "third place" though the beer is meh, and Carbon is good for coffee and donuts and fizzy water on tap). Had too many encounters with aggressive tent dwellers, not to mention all the murders. I definitely wouldn't recommend a woman to rent in one of those new buildings.

Would have liked to see the city anticipate the development here by building a park or square to live up to the name, as well as getting a head start on planting shade trees. I'm curious what things will be like around there in 10+ years.

I love Woods Boss. I stop there after pickup with my 2-year old since her school is right there. And since, you know, nobody is ever returning to the office, so why not start drinking at 3:30.

I would recommend concealed carry permits for anybody who wants to enjoy everything central Denver has to offer these days.

[mhays]

I live on the edge of Downtown Seattle, which has at least as bad a homeless issue. The idea that a grown man would need a 🞵🞵🞵 to walk around is a foreign concept (I walk everywhere, and don't have one). Tents are ugly but not dangerous unless they make you walk in the street.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I would recommend concealed carry permits for anybody who wants to enjoy everything central Denver has to offer these days.

This is where you man flex and you talk about what your preferred CC weapon is. XD? Glock? Sig?

I’ve been on the western end of AS and haven’t felt the need for an elevated protection level. Though I’m not with my kids so I can see your desire for an increased sense of protection.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by mhays

I live on the edge of Downtown Seattle, which has at least as bad a homeless issue. The idea that a grown man would need a 🞵🞵🞵 to walk around is a foreign concept (I walk everywhere, and don't have one). Tents are ugly but not dangerous unless they make you walk in the street.

Tents don't murder people, the people who sleep in them murder people.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

This is where you man flex and you talk about what your preferred CC weapon is. XD? Glock? Sig?

I’ve been on the western end of AS and haven’t felt the need for an elevated protection level. Though I’m not with my kids so I can see your desire for an increased sense of protection.

I don't know, it's pretty bad down there. I suppose the alternative is to just never go anywhere near there on foot, which is probably the choice 99% of Denverites are making. Good liberals that we all are, nobody wants to go hang out anywhere near the tree lawn heroin dens, and nobody wants them in their front yard.

EDIT: I’ll remind you all that Denver voters went 82.8% in favor of the camping ban. I’m not saying anything that most people in the City are not already thinking, I’m just a little more crass and hyperbolic about it.

I’ll accept for a moment that a roof over a person’s head is a fundamental right. Sleeping on the sidewalk is not a fundamental right. Keeping your dog, or your drugs, or the numerous other rules and reasons people choose not to stay in shelters overnight, those are also not fundamental rights.