What is Nashville's claim to fame other than country music?

[hauntedheadnc]

Jesus H... Show us on the doll where Nashville touched you. I mean, shit, the thought of spending more than an hour in Charlotte makes my balls draw up, but I don't go on for pages on end about it.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Jesus H... Show us on the doll where Nashville touched you. I mean, shit, the thought of spending more than an hour in Charlotte makes my balls draw up, but I don't go on for pages on end about it.

[SIGSEGV]

Nashville equilibrium is when Nashville has nothing to gain by changing its promotion strategy.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If there is a race/racism problem, it's probably influenced more by local politics than national perception. I think places like St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc., just don't do a good job of marketing their cities. Using Detroit as an example, local politics is probably a significant factor for why they don't do it as well as an Atlanta or Austin.

That doesn't make any sense. Local politics have zero control of what major media outlets based in some far part of the country want to publish or whatever slanted narrative they feel like promoting on a given day. There's nothing these cities could do to promote themselves other than launch a clever marketing campaign and maybe hire some PR but that wouldn't do much compared to the big media machine.

If some fuckhead neoliberal writer sitting in Manhattan at NYT want's to type some bullshit about Detroit (and they do all the time, complete with dated old photos from 2009, making it borderline propaganda) there's nothing the city can do about it.

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Jesus H... Show us on the doll where Nashville touched you. I mean, shit, the thought of spending more than an hour in Charlotte makes my balls draw up, but I don't go on for pages on end about it.

This made me burst out laughing at 1:17 AM and im staying at my parents house right now so thanks for that

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by The North One

That doesn't make any sense. Local politics have zero control of what major media outlets based in some far part of the country want to publish or whatever slanted narrative they feel like promoting on a given day. There's nothing these cities could do to promote themselves other than launch a clever marketing campaign and maybe hire some PR but that wouldn't do much compared to the big media machine.

If some fuckhead neoliberal writer sitting in Manhattan at NYT want's to type some bullshit about Detroit (and they do all the time, complete with dated old photos from 2009, making it borderline propaganda) there's nothing the city can do about it.

Local media feeds national media. Media in NYC don't sit around making up narratives about other cities. They pick up on local themes and parrot them.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Not only was it branding adding the city's name on there

"Kentucky" Fried Chicken is based on a recipe Colonel Sanders learned growing up in Indiana. For those of us who care about facts, logic dictates that it should be called Indiana Fried Chicken, or rather "Colonel Sander's mom's chicken". Colonel Sanders wasn't southern (and Kentucky isn't even all that southern, anyway), he didn't live in Kentucky until he was around 35 years old, but that didn't stop him from copping an accent and dressing like he was a southern gentleman for....get ready...branding purposes.

"Kentucky" Fried Chicken was a major innovation because it was the first to be cooked in a pressure cooker (as a former KFC employee, I can attest to what a pain in the ass those things were to clean). "Nashville" chicken is just throwing some cayenne pepper on chicken fried in a standard open fryer. There was no significant innovation.

I return to the David Hickey quote:

"...in the twentieth century, that's all there is: jazz and rock-and-roll. The rest is term papers and advertising."

Well in the twenty-first century, jazz and rock & roll have disappeared, as has real country music. Everything we hear and eat in tourist Nashville is just term papers and advertising.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Jesus H... Show us on the doll where Nashville touched you.

Good job copying that comeback from who-knows-how-many preceding forum posts. Sort of like copying a fried chicken recipe and claiming you came up with it.

But thanks for bringing it up, actually, as it gives me cover to mention the various obnoxious experiences I had living in Nashville, which was the fourth city I had lived in when I moved there in 1997. I knew how to read people in every place I had lived or visited until I moved to Tennessee, where I ran into the lurid world of the evangelical/baptist creeper. I had one guy "discover" me while I was working at a video store and try to get me to come over to his apartment for a "photo shoot". Dude sent me a really crazy letter which I still have. Another guy hired me to work at his store, made me a manager instantly, and told me that he liked to park at Warner Park every day on his lunch break. I quit that place after two weeks. There was also all of the closeted alcoholism and drug use with the evangelicals/baptists.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

"Kentucky" Fried Chicken is based on a recipe Colonel Sanders learned growing up in Indiana. For those of us who care about facts, logic dictates that it should be called Indiana Fried Chicken, or rather "Colonel Sander's mom's chicken". Colonel Sanders wasn't southern (and Kentucky isn't even all that southern, anyway), he didn't live in Kentucky until he was around 35 years old, but that didn't stop him from copping an accent and dressing like he was a southern gentleman for....get ready...branding purposes.

"Kentucky" Fried Chicken was a major innovation because it was the first to be cooked in a pressure cooker (as a former KFC employee, I can attest to what a pain in the ass those things were to clean). "Nashville" chicken is just throwing some cayenne pepper on chicken fried in a standard open fryer. There was no significant innovation.

I return to the David Hickey quote:

"...in the twentieth century, that's all there is: jazz and rock-and-roll. The rest is term papers and advertising."

Well in the twenty-first century, jazz and rock & roll have disappeared, as has real country music. Everything we hear and eat in tourist Nashville is just term papers and advertising.

Many words but not saying anything. Your opinion is just that, good thing reality is vastly different than your beliefs. If hot chicken was that simple then I wonder why there's lines out the door at Prince's, Hattie B's etc. daily. Enjoy your watered down chili.

[ariesjow]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I asked a few Nashville natives when they first heard of "Nashville Hot Chicken"

Individual #1 (circa-2001 graduate of Franklin High School):

"I was in New York City around 2010, at some hipster Brooklyn place, and I saw 'Nashville Hot Chicken' on the menu, so I ordered it out of curiosity..."

Individual #2 (circa-2015 graduate of Harpeth Hall High School):

"I heard about it around 2015, I guess the same time as everyone else in the country..."

Individual #2 (circa-1997 graduate of Father Ryan High School):

"I was watching Food Network one day and all of the sudden they were talking about 'Nashville Hot Chicken' as if it was 'a thing' but I had never heard of it..."

Basically, you asked three white Nashvillians when they first heard of hot chicken despite the fact that you've been told numerous times in this thread alone that hot chicken was primarily a long-time fixture in Nashville's black community before it gained popularity. You know good and damn well three random white people who went to Father Ryan, Harpeth Hall, and Franklin, three of the most lily white high schools in the Nashville metro of which two are expensive private schools, were not venturing into the hood back in the day to get hot chicken. Don't play dumb. Those same folks were barely venturing into downtown Nashville two decades ago much less the north or east side.

I am a black, native Nashvillian. People in my family have been eating hot chicken from Prince's and Bolton's my entire life. Your ignorance to the fact that hot chicken has been around for decades is just that...your ignorance.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Good job copying that comeback from who-knows-how-many preceding forum posts. Sort of like copying a fried chicken recipe and claiming you came up with it.

Thanks. I was very proud of it. I even typed it out myself -- didn't copy and paste a thing. I went to the extra work of typing it out, and you have to admit that it's the extra touch that means so much.

And I'll have you know I never copied a single fried chicken recipe -- primarily because I don't eat a lot of fried foods. If it makes you feel better though, my husband is still working on trying to perfect his grilled chicken recipe. The grill catches fire every single time, but he's working on it. Tenacious, that man.

But thanks for bringing it up, actually, as it gives me cover to mention the various obnoxious experiences I had living in Nashville, which was the fourth city I had lived in when I moved there in 1997. I knew how to read people in every place I had lived or visited until I moved to Tennessee, where I ran into the lurid world of the evangelical/baptist creeper. I had one guy "discover" me while I was working at a video store and try to get me to come over to his apartment for a "photo shoot". Dude sent me a really crazy letter which I still have. Another guy hired me to work at his store, made me a manager instantly, and told me that he liked to park at Warner Park every day on his lunch break. I quit that place after two weeks. There was also all of the closeted alcoholism and drug use with the evangelicals/baptists.

So... you're offended by closeted homosexuals and public sex? I... I don't think we can be friends, because those are two of my favorite things. Then there's the fact that if you don't boink at least one Baptist preacher at some point, you're really missing out. Living in the South I've learned that you can only repress sexuality for so long, and by the time it finally does leak out, it's really weird. Baptist preachers, and preacher's kids too, are some of the kinkiest bastards you'll ever meet.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by ariesjow

Basically, you asked three white Nashvillians when they first heard of hot chicken despite the fact that you've been told numerous times in this thread alone that hot chicken was primarily a long-time fixture in Nashville's black community before it gained popularity. You know good and damn well three random white people who went to Father Ryan, Harpeth Hall, and Franklin, three of the most lily white high schools in the Nashville metro of which two are expensive private schools, were not venturing into the hood back in the day to get hot chicken. Don't play dumb. Those same folks were barely venturing into downtown Nashville two decades ago much less the north or east side.

I am a black, native Nashvillian. People in my family have been eating hot chicken from Prince's and Bolton's my entire life. Your ignorance to the fact that hot chicken has been around for decades is just that...your ignorance.

Exactly, or to natives, "out east or out north". The Nashville of today and the Nashville of the 80's and 90's is like night and day. Folks out in Brentwood, Green Hills, Franklin etc. wouldn't venture into the those areas, especially not for chicken. Heck, some black folk would barely go unless they lived or had family there lol.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

But thanks for bringing it up, actually, as it gives me cover to mention the various obnoxious experiences I had living in Nashville

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you sure do: you have repeatedly expressed your exclusively negative opinions about Nashville, to which others have responded. You have had input. You have been heard.

Going forward, nothing gives you any "cover" for what seems like an unhealthy compulsion to dunk on every aspect of the place. You're just trolling now.

[Camelback]

Reaching out to TN/Nashville locals:

Is there anything to stop Nashville from exploding into the next Dallas-Ft.Worth style of rapid population growth? Seems like they have it all, water supply, land, pro-growth business atmosphere, 0% state income taxes, large pool of laborers within a 100 mile radius.

[edale]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Exactly, or to natives, "out east or out north". The Nashville of today and the Nashville of the 80's and 90's is like night and day. Folks out in Brentwood, Green Hills, Franklin etc. wouldn't venture into the those areas, especially not for chicken. Heck, some black folk would barely go unless they lived or had family there lol.

I mean...doesn't that kind of reinforce the point that "Nashville Hot Chicken" was never really a regional food? If it was only a niche food that a couple of places offered, and was only consumed by a portion of Black Nashvillians, it is odd that it's now the dish that represents the city.

Everyone in New Orleans is familiar with gumbo, has their favorite creole food joint, etc. Everyone in Cincinnati has had a coney or 3-way and has their favorite chili spot. The same is true of most foods that are city/regionally specific. Those foods are embedded in the local culture of those places, and they're damn near inescapable. If, historically, only part of Nashville even knew of hot chicken, and and an even smaller subset had actually had it from the couple of spots around town that offered it, I think that makes the case for it not really being a regional food. And it certainly points to the outsized role that marketing and branding had in turning hot chicken from Hatties or Prince's or wherever into Nashville Hot Chicken.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by edale

I mean...doesn't that kind of reinforce the point that "Nashville Hot Chicken" was never really a regional food? If it was only a niche food that a couple of places offered, and was only consumed by a portion of Black Nashvillians, it is odd that it's now the dish that represents the city.

Everyone in New Orleans is familiar with gumbo, has their favorite creole food joint, etc. Everyone in Cincinnati has had a coney or 3-way and has their favorite chili spot. The same is true of most foods that are city/regionally specific. Those foods are embedded in the local culture of those places, and they're damn near inescapable. If, historically, only part of Nashville even knew of hot chicken, and and an even smaller subset had actually had it from the couple of spots around town that offered it, I think that makes the case for it not really being a regional food. And it certainly points to the outsized role that marketing and branding had in turning hot chicken from Hatties or Prince's or wherever into Nashville Hot Chicken.

That's an understandable point, however my retort would be what's the process that makes a dish regional? Most regional food tends to start as ethnic food or a family recipe, from Chicago Deep Dish to the New York pizza pie. Nashville's just happen to be Black American rather than from Western European immigrants and spread much more recent due to a number of factors, some mentioned in my previous posts. Also, the dynamics of every city and how and when dishes spread are not the same.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by edale

I mean...doesn't that kind of reinforce the point that "Nashville Hot Chicken" was never really a regional food? If it was only a niche food that a couple of places offered, and was only consumed by a portion of Black Nashvillians, it is odd that it's now the dish that represents the city.

Everyone in New Orleans is familiar with gumbo, has their favorite creole food joint, etc. Everyone in Cincinnati has had a coney or 3-way and has their favorite chili spot. The same is true of most foods that are city/regionally specific. Those foods are embedded in the local culture of those places, and they're damn near inescapable. If, historically, only part of Nashville even knew of hot chicken, and and an even smaller subset had actually had it from the couple of spots around town that offered it, I think that makes the case for it not really being a regional food. And it certainly points to the outsized role that marketing and branding had in turning hot chicken from Hatties or Prince's or wherever into Nashville Hot Chicken.

I mean... you gotta start somewhere. New York Style Pizza started out as an obscure niche food just eaten by Italians. Most popular food trends started out highly localized. Hot Chicken started in Nashville and was developed in Nashville, therefore, it is a Nashville food, regardless of what percentage of the local white population knew about it in 1988.

EDIT: jkc2j, apologies... we posted at the same time and we made the same point.

As for jmecklenborg, there's no sense even responding any longer. I mean, think what you'd like about Nashville. I don't mind. But when you post a photo of a burnt out house and try to pass it off as an example of 'what Nashville looks like,' then it becomes very clear that you're a troll with a very specific agenda. You'll get nowhere with that.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Reaching out to TN/Nashville locals:

Is there anything to stop Nashville from exploding into the next Dallas-Ft.Worth style of rapid population growth? Seems like they have it all, water supply, land, pro-growth business atmosphere, 0% state income taxes, large pool of laborers within a 100 mile radius.

DFW is relatively cheap compared to the cities it drew people and businesses from. Also there are multiple large anchors there. More importantly, I don't think Nashville is cheap, TN is a small state, not a mega state like TX, and there are actually multiple cities than can compete with Nashville like Raleigh-Durham. Not sure what you you are asking but at 2 million, Nashville has a long way to go to reach even 5 million. Unless you want endless sprawl, and a relatively weak downtown...

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by DCReid

DFW is relatively cheap compared to the cities it drew people and businesses from. Also there are multiple large anchors there. More importantly, I don't think Nashville is cheap, TN is a small state, not a mega state like TX, and there are actually multiple cities than can compete with Nashville like Raleigh-Durham. Not sure what you you are asking but at 2 million, Nashville has a long way to go to reach even 5 million. Unless you want endless sprawl, and a relatively weak downtown...

Are you a TN/Nashville local?

At one point DFW was a metroplex of 2 million, yet it still managed to grow to what 8 million?

Nashville should market it'self as The MetroFlex, lol

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

That's an understandable point, however my retort would be what's the process that makes a dish regional? Most regional food tends to start as ethnic food or a family recipe, from Chicago Deep Dish to the New York pizza pie. Nashville's just happen to be Black American rather than from Western European immigrants and spread much more recent due to a number of factors, some mentioned in my previous posts. Also, the dynamics of every city and how and when dishes spread are not the same.

It seems more like a dish that happens to have originated by a subset of people in Nashville than it is Nashville's dish. If that makes sense. I think of a regional dish as something that any local would have been aware existed before it went mainstream (e.g. a Philly cheese steak).