What is Nashville's claim to fame other than country music?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Even in Davidson County, which as Tennessee's "most liberal" county is probably one of the most conservative urban counties in the country.

davidson county was +32.1 for biden in 2020 (slighty higher than memphis' shelby county at +30.4).

but the MSA overall was -10.5, making it one of the 4 most red-leaning MSAs out of the nation's 50 largest, along with jacksonville, cincinnati, and OKC.

so things turn extremely red as soon as you get out of the urban core. not much suburban blue-shift there yet like we saw in atlanta and other places.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by BigDipper 80

Nashville doesn't have the beaches or weather or architecture

It doesn't have sidewalks. The streets don't have curbs. It doesn't have real neighborhoods (see my photos above).

It's a terrible city for bicycling. The mountain bike trails aren't any good. There is no paved rails-to-trails bike trail of any significance (because the Midwest had many redundant railroads built during the narrow gauge and interurban booms, it has many recreational rails-to-trails parks).

The Cumberland River isn't scenic (nobody pays a premium to live near it, unlike the Ohio River).

It's not closer to the Smoky Mountains than Cincinnati or Columbus, OH. Nearby state parks like Montgomery Bell are pretty boring.

Percy/Edward Warner Park are pretty nice county parks, and you can bike on the Natchez Trace Parkway, but they aren't convenient to most of the metro area.

The traffic is appalling - far worse than what exists in similarly-sized metros like Columbus or Kansas City.

[38 Geary]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It doesn't have sidewalks. The streets don't have curbs. It doesn't have real neighborhoods (see my photos above).

It's a terrible city for bicycling. The mountain bike trails aren't any good. There is no paved rails-to-trails bike trail of any significance (because the Midwest had many redundant railroads built during the narrow gauge and interurban booms, it has many recreational rails-to-trails parks).

The Cumberland River isn't scenic (nobody pays a premium to live near it, unlike the Ohio River).

It's not closer to the Smoky Mountains than Cincinnati or Columbus, OH. Nearby state parks like Montgomery Bell are pretty boring.

Percy/Edward Warner Park are pretty nice county parks, and you can bike on the Natchez Trace Parkway, but they aren't convenient to most of the metro area.

The traffic is appalling - far worse than what exists in similarly-sized metros like Columbus or Kansas City.

Eek, sounds awful!

Just as I was about to book my bachelorette party for Nashville too...

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

LOL.

Nashville is a beautiful city. "Nightlife" and "culinary" scene are overstatements.

Relax, I meant relative to cities it's size. I mean at this point it's almost an objective statement that it has great restaurants and nightlife. I'm guessing you haven't visited for awhile?

The Cultural Literati in Tennessee are Southern Baptists. It has the stuffiest most insufferable sort of cultural norms of any "big" city I've been to. There's a statue of Billy Graham in the center of it's downtown, for god's sake.

Anyways, for this reason alone, I could never live there. It's a difficult place to be anything other than a cis hetero white person. Even in Davidson County, which as Tennessee's "most liberal" county is probably one of the most conservative urban counties in the country.

I mean, sure, the Southern Baptists exist, but I wouldn't say they really reflect the overall tone of the city. The Billy Graham statue is gone now, as is the Christian literature company that erected it on their property. There are gay nightclubs just a block or two away from there too, so you must have had a *VERY* specific, and odd, walking tour. Also, Nashville/Davidson County consistently votes blue, and this past year voted for Biden by over a 2:1 margin. Not saying it's a nationwide liberal bastion or anything, but that's pretty on par with most bigger cities, and certainly not 'the most conservative urban county in the country.' You could make that argument about the metro overall, as Steely Dan pointed out, but the central county is very solidly liberal. I don't know what your experience in the city was, so I can't speak to it specifically of course, but I know plenty of non-cis non-white people who live happy and comfortable lives there out and proud in whatever capacity that means.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It doesn't have sidewalks. The streets don't have curbs. It doesn't have real neighborhoods (see my photos above).

It's a terrible city for bicycling. The mountain bike trails aren't any good. There is no paved rails-to-trails bike trail of any significance (because the Midwest had many redundant railroads built during the narrow gauge and interurban booms, it has many recreational rails-to-trails parks).

The Cumberland River isn't scenic (nobody pays a premium to live near it, unlike the Ohio River).

It's not closer to the Smoky Mountains than Cincinnati or Columbus, OH. Nearby state parks like Montgomery Bell are pretty boring.

Percy/Edward Warner Park are pretty nice county parks, and you can bike on the Natchez Trace Parkway, but they aren't convenient to most of the metro area.

The traffic is appalling - far worse than what exists in similarly-sized metros like Columbus or Kansas City.

Damn, did someone in Nashville steal your girlfriend? The city certainly isn't Paris but why do you have such a bone to pick? It's just a mid-sized city with a little cultural cache. It's good for urban enthusiasts all over to have cities like Nashville experiencing growth in an era when urban planning principles are mainstream.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It doesn't have sidewalks. The streets don't have curbs. It doesn't have real neighborhoods (see my photos above).

It's a terrible city for bicycling. The mountain bike trails aren't any good. There is no paved rails-to-trails bike trail of any significance (because the Midwest had many redundant railroads built during the narrow gauge and interurban booms, it has many recreational rails-to-trails parks).

The Cumberland River isn't scenic (nobody pays a premium to live near it, unlike the Ohio River).

It's not closer to the Smoky Mountains than Cincinnati or Columbus, OH. Nearby state parks like Montgomery Bell are pretty boring.

Percy/Edward Warner Park are pretty nice county parks, and you can bike on the Natchez Trace Parkway, but they aren't convenient to most of the metro area.

The traffic is appalling - far worse than what exists in similarly-sized metros like Columbus or Kansas City.

This is a man on a serious troll mission!

Ask any Nashville urban development enthusiast and they'd be the first to tell you that, yes, the city needs to do a much better job of building out sidewalks and bike lanes and urban amenities that people expect. It's what one would expect to see in a city that is undergoing such a sudden a rapid transformation into a place that is building legitimate urban neighborhoods, sometimes from scratch. But when you say things like "the city doesn't have sidewalks or curbs" and post some clownish collection of photos VERY CLEARLY designed to make it look bad, then all you really do is flag yourself as someone who has some bizarre irrational personal agenda and can't be trusted as an unbiased trustworthy observer.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It doesn't have sidewalks. The streets don't have curbs. It doesn't have real neighborhoods (see my photos above).

It's a terrible city for bicycling. The mountain bike trails aren't any good. There is no paved rails-to-trails bike trail of any significance (because the Midwest had many redundant railroads built during the narrow gauge and interurban booms, it has many recreational rails-to-trails parks).

The Cumberland River isn't scenic (nobody pays a premium to live near it, unlike the Ohio River).

It's not closer to the Smoky Mountains than Cincinnati or Columbus, OH. Nearby state parks like Montgomery Bell are pretty boring.

Percy/Edward Warner Park are pretty nice county parks, and you can bike on the Natchez Trace Parkway, but they aren't convenient to most of the metro area.

The traffic is appalling - far worse than what exists in similarly-sized metros like Columbus or Kansas City.

For someone who supposedly moved from Nashville in 2001 and doesn't like it you sure seem invested and visit often. I mean.. you have multiple recent photos of neighborhoods in transition and constantly make posts about it. Very strange.

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I don't think it's "completely fake bullshit", but it is wildly successful marketing. Of course most successful marketing starts with a grain of truth, and there certainly was hot chicken in Nashville, and Nashville was the traditional center for country-western music industry.

It's amazing how Nashville built its brand, and I admit I'm somewhat jealous, in that there are (to my eyes) more interesting U.S. cities that are stagnant or rotting away. Memphis, Birmingham and lots of cities north of the Ohio River. Don't think there will be travel bachorlette parties in Dayton or Louisville anytime soon.

That's fair, and I appreciate your thoughtful response. I'm a huge proponent of stagnant or forgotten rustbelt cities too, and I feel they deserve far more publicity than they receive. I'd never claim that Nashville is superior to them in terms of sheer quality as a city or anything. In fact, I'm jealous of the built form places like Memphis and Birmingham have and wish Nashville had more of it. You're right that Nashville probably gets more attention than it really deserves, and for that reason, I suppose I can understand why it'd be the target of a certain amount of disdain specifically from people from rust belt cities. I'm just not sure it really deserves it.

And it's interesting to ponder associations. Why is hot chicken associated with a city, rather than associated with black culinary traditions? Why are some authentic local foods, like Alabama white BBQ, or Buffalo beef-on-weck, largely unknown, while others explode?

Fair question! I wish I had an answer for you... it probably should be that way... except when it comes to Alabama white BBQ... it's not famous because it's nasty as hell.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Austin is the same, IMO. Both cities are largely hype machines.

Hey, I appreciate your consistency. Austin usually gets a pass from most people when, I agree, it's really in the same boat as Nashville in most respects.

[Steely Dan]

like everything else in america, you can't honestly discuss the phenomenon of cities like nashville and austin without also talking about race.

nashville and austin and portland and denver and other US city media darlings have become, for one reason or another, places that white people (and their money) have deemed to be worthy enough to live in, to visit, and to invest in).

whereas cities like cleveland and st. louis and memphis and birmingham and others, ehhhh not so much.

just like the coded language that's often used within cities for "good neighborhoods" and "bad neighborhoods", there's also a degree of that playing out at the macro level with "good cities" and "bad cities".


it sucks, and i don't like it, but there it is.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

like everything else in america, you can't honestly discuss the phenomenon of cities like nashville and austin without also talking about race.

nashville and austin and portland and denver and other US city media darlings have become, for one reason or another, places that white people (and their money) have deemed to be worthy enough to live in, to visit, and to invest in).

whereas cities like cleveland and st. louis and memphis and birmingham and others, ehhhh not so much.

just like the coded language that's often used within cities for "good neighborhoods" and "bad neighborhoods", there's also a degree of that playing out at the macro level with "good cities" and "bad cities".


it sucks, and i don't like it, but there it is.

Good point, I do believe the country music perception can lead one to have an image of an extremely white city, and while Nashville is majority white it does in fact have a significant black population at close to 30% and over 200k. Much more than what'd you'd find in cities like Portland, Austin, Denver etc. which tends to catch people by surprise when they visit. I actually recall hearing a couple say "Why, I didn't know Nashville was so.. urban" lol.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Good point, I do believe the country music perception can lead one to have an image of an extremely white city, and while Nashville is majority white it does in fact have a significant black population at close to 30% and over 200k. Much more than what'd you'd find in cities like Portland, Austin, Denver etc. which tends to catch people by surprise when they visit. I actually recall hearing a couple say "Why, I didn't know Nashville was so.. urban" lol.

totally.

i was talking more about media image, and the subsequent perceptions it creates, than the reality on the ground.

these things often become self-fulfilling prophecies, in both directions, spiralling either upward or downward.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

like everything else in america, you can't honestly discuss the phenomenon of cities like nashville and austin without also talking about race.

nashville and austin and portland and denver and other US city media darlings have become, for one reason or another, places that white people (and their money) have deemed to be worthy enough to live in, to visit, and to invest in).

whereas cities like cleveland and st. louis and memphis and birmingham and others, ehhhh not so much.

just like the coded language that's often used within cities for "good neighborhoods" and "bad neighborhoods", there's also a degree of that playing out at the macro level with "good cities" and "bad cities".


it sucks, and i don't like it, but there it is.

I haven't looked at the stats, but I'd assume Denver, Austin, Portland, etc have much lower violent crime rates than Memphis, St. Louis, Birmingham, etc. - I'd imagine people (white people as you noted) would much rather move to a city w/out a violent crime "problem".

[Crawford]

It isn't crime, it's largely race/politics. "Crime" is the same double-speak as whether a neighborhood is "good".

Yes, Memphis is a high crime metro, but Nashville is a relatively high crime metro too. Nashville has a higher violent crime rate than Cleveland or Detroit. But good luck getting suburban white women from Indiana and Ohio to come to Detroit for bachelorette parties.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/4336...eas-with-the-highest-violent-crime-rate/

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It isn't crime, it's largely race/politics. "Crime" is the same double-speak as whether a neighborhood is "good".

Yes, Memphis is a high crime metro, but Nashville is a relatively high crime metro too. Nashville has a higher violent crime rate than Cleveland or Detroit. But good luck getting suburban white women from Indiana and Ohio to come to Detroit for bachelorette parties.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/4336...eas-with-the-highest-violent-crime-rate/

Yes but ask just about anyone which has higher crime and they'll say Cleveland or Detroit. Nashville has been marketed to the American masses more effectively than Cleveland or Detroit.

And the Mississippi Delta region historically has been one of the poorest parts of the U.S. There is a reason the state of Mississippi ranks dead last in just about every metric and why Lower Mississippi River cities like New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Memphis all the way to St Louis have high crime rates.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It isn't crime, it's largely race/politics. "Crime" is the same double-speak as whether a neighborhood is "good".

Yes, Memphis is a high crime metro, but Nashville is a relatively high crime metro too. Nashville has a higher violent crime rate than Cleveland or Detroit. But good luck getting suburban white women from Indiana and Ohio to come to Detroit for bachelorette parties.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/4336...eas-with-the-highest-violent-crime-rate/

I don't know what "it isn't crime" means, but I certainly would have crime as a consideration if a list of good/bad neighborhoods or cities was being listed.

I think it's fairly obvious that, generally speaking, white woman don't want to / don't feel comfortable partying in majority black neighborhoods regardless of crime rate.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by jkc2j

Good point, I do believe the country music perception can lead one to have an image of an extremely white city, and while Nashville is majority white it does in fact have a significant black population at close to 30% and over 200k. Much more than what'd you'd find in cities like Portland, Austin, Denver etc. which tends to catch people by surprise when they visit. I actually recall hearing a couple say "Why, I didn't know Nashville was so.. urban" lol.

• Video Link

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by BG918

Nashville has been marketed to the American masses more effectively than Cleveland or Detroit.

exactly.

and i can see how someone in, say, st. louis might look at a media darling like nashville a little sideways.

i mean, on just about every measure of being an established old school traditionally urban "authentic" big city in the interior of the nation, st. louis kinda blows nashville out of the water.

but the masses of middle america don't want that real shit, they want disneyland - RELATIVELY SPEAKING. i know nashville is a real and established city with its own real history, culture, etc., but by "disneyland" i mean the somewhat manufactured tourism-related "cowboy hat and bachelorette party" media image that nashville projects out to the world.

and on a certain level, good for nashville for cashing in on its "disneyland" creation. money is money, it doesn't really matter who you're getting it from.

[jkc2j]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

• Video Link

Umm.. I don't get it lol. I don't even listen to country music.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i mean, on just about every measure of being an established old school traditionally urban "authentic" big city in the interior of the nation, st. louis kinda blows nashville out of the water.

What is the draw of this for the bachelorette crowd?

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

I haven't looked at the stats, but I'd assume Denver, Austin, Portland, etc have much lower violent crime rates than Memphis, St. Louis, Birmingham, etc. - I'd imagine people (white people as you noted) would much rather move to a city w/out a violent crime "problem".

I don't think it has as much to do about race as you think. If it did, I do not think cities like Atlanta would be growing, even in the city itself at this point. Many midsize cities are the growth magnets if they are cheaper, have a strong knowledge base, have a big university and/or are a state capital. Many are also attractive to businesses which can serve their clients just as well as big cities and have cheaper costs. Most of the cities you mention as growth are state capitals and stronger tech and university driven cities/ Columbus is doing better than Cleveland because it is a state capital, has a large university, and has a good location, among other things. There are plenty of African-Americans in Columbus, and plenty of blight. Nashville has a leg up on Memphis because it has better universities and is a state capital, among other things...I see blog posts about Nashville not having a decent streetscape and etc, but I don't think that matters as much as you think. I remember in the 1980s there were complaints that Houston was flat and muggy, had flying roaches, freeways everywhere, houses next to office buildings, and was basically a mostly unattractive city. Those perceived drawbacks have not prevented it from continuing to grow even when its economy collapsed in the early 1980s.