St. Paul's Hospital & Health Campus | U/C

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's already out of date, as they've had a fifth drilling rig operating for several weeks. The seacant wall seems to be progressing pretty well. There's a wheel washing station so the trucks taking the drilling spoil out, and the empty concrete trucks aren't leaving a trail as they leave the site. There aren't that many trucks at this stage; that will clearly change once they start excavating the hole.

Someone setup a Youtube construction stream:

• Video Link

You need to go to the channel to view each day's construction.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNDVyL_iDsXuZmm_dxllkbQ

[zahav]

The designs were done before the revelations of the last couple months and the resulting flare up in tensions over the church. I personally find it uncomfortable seeing the cross so prominently displayed, especially next to indigenous art, it feels very off-putting. I know Providence is a Catholic organization, but that doesn't mean the cross has to be this prominent is so many areas. The exterior crosses on the current (heritage) St. Paul's doesn't seem out of place because it is a hertitage building. But seeing it on the new building feels off.

[Klazu]

If seeing the two together causes people to hyperventilate, then perhaps the solution is to remove indigenous art component and leave the cross? Problem solved and less hurt feelings, eh?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by zahav

I know Providence is a Catholic organization, but that doesn't mean the cross has to be this prominent is so many areas.

That's a pretty self-contradictory sentence.

[Metro-One]

So I guess now we can never have Christian symbols anywhere near Indigenous symbols? Better keep Jewish and Islamic symbols also 1 km or more apart these days. Also Buddhist symbols and Islamic symbols must never be seen anywhere near each other because of tensions and atrocities in Thailand, Burma, etc…

Seriously, if this is 🞵🞵🞵🞵 hitting people it shows how simple and fragile people really have become.

I’m atheist myself (though my background is Catholic due to being Italian heritage) but seriously, grow up people. There is more history and nuance to the Catholic Church in NC, Canada and the world than their part in residential schools.

And if the cross should be banned due to that, then so should every other faith symbol and organization.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Seriously, if this is 🞵🞵🞵🞵 hitting people it shows how simple and fragile people really have become.

Really? I think you have completely misread the situation. If it were your recent family members who were taken from their parents and died at boarding school with no further information, you'd feel a bit differently.

I can't believe how hard it is to understand for some people.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

And if the cross should be banned due to that, then so should every other faith symbol and organization.

on any building built by a government for sure.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Really? I think you have completely misread the situation. If it were your recent family members who were taken from their parents and died at boarding school with no further information, you'd feel a bit differently.

I can't believe how hard it is to understand for some people.

The knowledge of boarding schools and the deaths of these children was already known, I remember learning about them in high school 20 years ago and watching films about them on CBC when I was under 10.

These discoveries are just the physical evidence of what was already confirmed, and the general terribleness of these schools is only a recent “discovery” to those who either didn’t pay attention in school or are looking to flare up any historical racial tensions / atrocities as “breaking news” to make themselves feel important. (Not that people shouldn’t feel emotional about the loss of these children, and that formal apologies aren’t needed without some form of compensation, but without a healthy does of pragmatism these emotional responses can become more destructive than helpful).

In short, cancelling the Catholic Church from existence / never allowing anything Catholic to be seen within 500 yards of anything native is not going to help anything and will likely work against reconciliation. Just like banning the RCMP from the gay pride parades. This path of social justice is just going to lead to more hate and division (which is very evident given how much more divided we seem to become every year, despite the doubling down of virtue signaling and intersectionality at the same rate. Also, this doesn’t mean I support the right wing’s brand of current nonsense. The two are trapped in a positive feedback loop of stupidity).

Anyways, the Hospital is called St. Paul’s because the Catholic Church is heavily involved with its operation, so asking them to remove the cross seems pretty silly to me. If having native art so close to the cross is too offensive these days, then I don’t really know what to do.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Anyways, the Hospital is called St. Paul’s because the Catholic Church is heavily involved with its operation, so asking them to remove the cross seems pretty silly to me.

A sensible individual would think so, but checking PHC's website and their Twitter activity in the past 6 months, they are very proud about all things social justice and are vocal about every possible social justice issue in existence.

Since it seems that they are willing to compromise a lot in the name of social justice, I actually wouldn't put it past them to cancel their own identity and remove the crosses to appease some Twitter fools.

Back on the topic of the hospital and its grounds, I haven't seen any update whether the new connector to 1st Avenue is in the plan?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Back on the topic of the hospital and its grounds, I haven't seen any update whether the new connector to 1st Avenue is in the plan?

There isn't going to be one. There's possibly going to be a Prior/ Venables Street Underpass.

"Staff have been working with the Port of Vancouver to submit a funding application to the National Trade Corridor fund, which will seek federal investment for the design of the project. The National Trade Corridors Fund targets projects such as the Prior/ Venables Street Underpass, where it has the potential to improve performance and strengthen resilience across the transport system, supporting the physical movement of goods and people in Canada. We expect to submit a funding application in the form of an expression of interest next month. From there, if successful, the City will be invited to submit a comprehensive project proposal. Initial discussions are also underway with other potential partners for the project, including Translink and CN Railway."

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Anyways, the Hospital is called St. Paul’s because the Catholic Church is heavily involved with its operation, so asking them to remove the cross seems pretty silly to me. If having native art so close to the cross is too offensive these days, then I don’t really know what to do.

but why is the catholic church heavily involved? And this is a new building so why is "st paul" moving along to the new location?

seems like a good time to cut the cord.

maybe its a way to keeps costs down. Maybe these are not government employees and therefore don't have the same benefits.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by djmk

but why is the catholic church heavily involved? And this is a new building so why is "st paul" moving along to the new location?

seems like a good time to cut the cord.

maybe its a way to keeps costs down. Maybe these are not government employees and therefore don't have the same benefits.

I don’t have an answer on that one.

I am sure someone on this forum though can explain the history and the involvement of the Catholic Church with this project / hospital in detail.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by djmk

but why is the catholic church heavily involved? And this is a new building so why is "st paul" moving along to the new location?

seems like a good time to cut the cord.

maybe its a way to keeps costs down. Maybe these are not government employees and therefore don't have the same benefits.

the hospital is run by Providence Healthcare, which is a catholic organization/company, not sure how it's classified.
read about it here

at the hospital on the top floor is where nuns live and do their thing.

Long story short in the 1800's nuns started the hospital and many hospitals across Canada and the USA.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by djmk

but why is the catholic church heavily involved? And this is a new building so why is "st paul" moving along to the new location?

seems like a good time to cut the cord.

maybe its a way to keeps costs down. Maybe these are not government employees and therefore don't have the same benefits.

There are well over a billion reasons for this to be The New St Paul's. Salaries paid by Providence Healthcare and Vancouver Coastal Health Authority appear to be pretty similar.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The knowledge of boarding schools and the deaths of these children was already known, I remember learning about them in high school 20 years ago and watching films about them on CBC when I was under 10.

You already knew there were hundreds and hundreds of unmarked graves of native children? I don't think too many people knew this, or maybe were not willing to acknowledge any wrong doing without physical evidence. There's is still ongoing investigations into more unmarked graves, so yes, imo it is highly inappropriate to have any church symbols near indigenous symbols. maybe later, but not now.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by logan5

You already knew there were hundreds and hundreds of unmarked graves of native children?...

I don't mean to verge into a tangent in this thread, but the aspect of unmarked graves was arguably the most concerning aspect of the TRC initiated after Harpo's apology

Residential school graves research a daunting task
Social Sharing

CBC News · Posted: Mar 02, 2010 2:17 PM ET | Last Updated: March 2, 2010

Investigations into cases of students who died or went missing while attending Canada's residential schools are a priority for the Indian Residential Schools Truth and Reconciliation Commission, says the group's new research director.
...
The Missing Children Research Project was launched in 2008 with the aim of documenting how many children died, went missing or were buried in unmarked graves at residential schools across the country from the late 1800s through much of the 1900s.
...

link
It was also a key topic in the Alberta high school curriculum during the early 2000's and it warranted it's own display at the Museum of Civilization in Ottawa in the 90's. But I do agree that the average person likely didn't know much about it (like most things).

That said, while the Catholics were involved in the operations of the residential schools, it was the Feds, the took the kids, created the policy, directed all the religious organizations on how to deliver it, did the 60's scoop lost/withheld attendance and death records and from 1969 onwards ran the schools. So if we're deciding not to have religious signs there we'd better as sure not have any flags or other references to the government of Canada near any of the indigenous symbols.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by shreddog

I don't mean to verge into a tangent in this thread, but the aspect of unmarked graves was arguably the most concerning aspect of the TRC initiated after Harpo's apologylink
It was also a key topic in the Alberta high school curriculum during the early 2000's and it warranted it's own display at the Museum of Civilization in Ottawa in the 90's. But I do agree that the average person likely didn't know much about it (like most things).

That said, while the Catholics were involved in the operations of the residential schools, it was the Feds, the took the kids, created the policy, directed all the religious organizations on how to deliver it, did the 60's scoop lost/withheld attendance and death records and from 1969 onwards ran the schools. So if we're deciding not to have religious signs there we'd better as sure not have any flags or other references to the government of Canada near any of the indigenous symbols.

Yes, that would be inappropriate at this point in time.

The extent of this is still unknown. It seems very likely the number is much greater than what was previously imagined. Kinda shocking that this is being downplayed by some.

[WarrenC12]

PHC employees are exactly the same as VCH. PHC isn't even it's own health authority, it exists under VCH.

As I understand it, the Catholic church did start the healthcare operation on the site of the current St. Paul's over 100 years ago. Part of the agreement to hand it over to government control was some of this legacy Catholic 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Providence Health facilities don't perform abortions, among other things.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The knowledge of boarding schools and the deaths of these children was already known, I remember learning about them in high school 20 years ago and watching films about them on CBC when I was under 10.

It's news to a lot of people in the general public. I'm surprised you're so flippant about this if you've known about it for so long.

Let's not forget the worldwide coverup of disgusting pedophiles within the Catholic church. Destroying thousands of lives. Hundreds of thousands? We'll never know.

The Catholic church can 🞵🞵🞵🞵 off this planet for all I care. But paying taxes would be a good start.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by logan5

Yes, that would be inappropriate at this point in time.

The extent of this is still unknown. It seems very likely the number is much greater than what was previously imagined. Kinda shocking that this is being downplayed by some.

First admit that your assumption, due to your prior ignorance on the issue in that these unmarked graves were unknown / not public knowledge, as wrong.

I had no special access or connection in this situation, yet somehow I already knew of this situation from my basic High School curriculum and watching documentaries and docu-dramas on CDC.

Amazing how you completely ignored that aspect of what was explained above.

Thousands of children died in residential schools (most from infectious diseases from poor health standards and neglect) and the bodies were never returned to their families = mass graves near the schools. It really wasn’t a difficult dot to connect even decades ago.

Also love how the far left is no giving such symbols as the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 National flag to the right wing. Seriously, we’re at a time where even wanting to celebrate your nation or have any pride in Canada equals right wing…

Whatever, everything is the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 these days.

The obvious bias in reporting has been fun to watch in how it has been engineered to create as much outrage as possible. If I was ignorant on the issue beforehand I can see how the poor reporting in the media could lead me to believe that these are new discoveries of priorly unknown events, giving me an image of children being lined up and shot (seriously, many of the BBC articles haven’t even mentioned the causes of death, intentionally left vague so the imagination can fill in the rest).

And this is what I hate most about the current political discourse, is that before these “discoveries” I actual my was pretty sympathetic towards what happened at the residential schools, but now I see how they are being used as political pawns for social outrage it makes me feel more distant from the subject.