SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread

[jkill34]

I am new to this website and am thankful there is a SA page (where I grew up).

Yet, what are thoughts on this project?

https://saheron.com/cattleman-square-lofts/

Personally, I think it's bland and doesn't do much other than provide residential. I know that most of the project is run by the non-profit Alamo Community Group. But projects like this don't bring people to our great city. Hopefully, designs will be better in the future.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by jkill34

I am new to this website and am thankful there is a SA page (where I grew up).

Yet, what are thoughts on this project?

https://saheron.com/cattleman-square-lofts/

Personally, I think it's bland and doesn't do much other than provide residential. I know that most of the project is run by the non-profit Alamo Community Group. But projects like this don't bring people to our great city. Hopefully, designs will be better in the future.

I think for its location, the design fits just fine. This is the first significant development in that area with housing, if I'm correct. Right now, you have UTSA's downtown campus, VIA, the Bexar County Detention Center, and maybe Holiday Inn?

The good news is that the West side of downtown (across the hwy) is seeing development so eventually the two should merge. I think David Adelman is trying to get a historic designation taken off some derelict property nearby that he is wanting to develop with some affordable housing.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by jkill34

I am new to this website and am thankful there is a SA page (where I grew up).

Yet, what are thoughts on this project?

https://saheron.com/cattleman-square-lofts/

Personally, I think it's bland and doesn't do much other than provide residential. I know that most of the project is run by the non-profit Alamo Community Group. But projects like this don't bring people to our great city. Hopefully, designs will be better in the future.

I think it's fine. It's new residential in an area with almost no residential, it will make that area more livable just by existing. The lovely old Talerico building will be preserved as part of the development. The landscaping rendering looks nice. What do you think it's lacking? As much as I would like all new buildings to have as much beauty and character as, say, Gaudi's Casa Batllo, is that a realistic goal? Should we let the perfect be the enemy of the good, to quote Voltaire? When you say "projects like this don't bring people to our great city" are you referring to tourists or new residents? Because in either case, people are coming to our great city in droves, and this apartment building won't keep them away.

[Jake Tex]

I wish they could provide small balconies for projects like these. I don't know how much cost they would add but it makes a huge difference in quality of life living in a small space. Plus I think they can enhance a relatively boring looking building like this.

[Dan In Real Life]

Originally Posted by jkill34

I am new to this website and am thankful there is a SA page (where I grew up).

Yet, what are thoughts on this project?

https://saheron.com/cattleman-square-lofts/

Personally, I think it's bland and doesn't do much other than provide residential. I know that most of the project is run by the non-profit Alamo Community Group. But projects like this don't bring people to our great city. Hopefully, designs will be better in the future.

I agree with you. It's very bland and completely uninspired. I'll always believe we can do better than cookie cutter 4-5 story mid rises for any development, including residential.

Also, it's very rare that you'll see me support another brown/beige development anywhere in SA. We need to move past that aesthetic.

[jkill34]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

I think it's fine. It's new residential in an area with almost no residential, it will make that area more livable just by existing. The lovely old Talerico building will be preserved as part of the development. The landscaping rendering looks nice. What do you think it's lacking? As much as I would like all new buildings to have as much beauty and character as, say, Gaudi's Casa Batllo, is that a realistic goal? Should we let the perfect be the enemy of the good, to quote Voltaire? When you say "projects like this don't bring people to our great city" are you referring to tourists or new residents? Because in either case, people are coming to our great city in droves, and this apartment building won't keep them away.

I guess I didn't take into consideration the location of the building on the west side. It just seems cookie-cutter and bland to me. Yes, people are coming to the city, as tourists and some moving into the city. However, it just seems like it's to build something rather than design something. Just saying the design could have been a lot better. Have balconies, retail, pool, etc. And I think we all know, that the design on the pictures won't actually turn out the same in real life.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by jkill34

I guess I didn't take into consideration the location of the building on the west side. It just seems cookie-cutter and bland to me. Yes, people are coming to the city, as tourists and some moving into the city. However, it just seems like it's to build something rather than design something. Just saying the design could have been a lot better. Have balconies, retail, pool, etc. And I think we all know, that the design on the pictures won't actually turn out the same in real life.

To clarify, in general I despise this type of residential construction. I think the apartments built along Broadway, and the Encore, Heritage, and Agave apartments are all tragically wasted opportunities. I know I will hate what they build at Friedrich and Lone Star. But I keep being reminded that current economic realities, combined with enduring American lifestyle paradigms, means that either this kind of crap gets built, or nothing (unless you're Weston or Goldsbury, billionaires with money to throw at their urban development dreams). The increase in the number of people living downtown will result in better construction outcomes in the future, I keep telling myself.

This development, however, gets a pass from me for a few reasons. One reason is that it's low income housing. According to the article you linked, the rent there starts at $321/month for people working low-paying jobs. This is incredibly beneficial to the city and there should be more of this. Another reason is that no parking garage will be built for this development, encouraging the use of multi-modal transit, which is also beneficial for the creation of authentic, sustainable urban environments. Lastly it's being built in an area that's been neglected and ignored for a long time, and has become a haven for undesirable behaviors. David Adelman, in a recent article, said he's "paying $500 a week for biohazard cleanup due to persistent crime and homelessness in the area," referring to property he owns right across the street. While this situation will improve dramatically in the next few years, this development will begin that improvement by bringing residents to the area. It's for these reasons that I object to you singling out this development for criticism.

[jkill34]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

To clarify, in general I despise this type of residential construction. I think the apartments built along Broadway, and the Encore, Heritage, and Agave apartments are all tragically wasted opportunities. I know I will hate what they build at Friedrich and Lone Star. But I keep being reminded that current economic realities, combined with enduring American lifestyle paradigms, means that either this kind of crap gets built, or nothing (unless you're Weston or Goldsbury, billionaires with money to throw at their urban development dreams). The increase in the number of people living downtown will result in better construction outcomes in the future, I keep telling myself.

This development, however, gets a pass from me for a few reasons. One reason is that it's low income housing. According to the article you linked, the rent there starts at $321/month for people working low-paying jobs. This is incredibly beneficial to the city and there should be more of this. Another reason is that no parking garage will be built for this development, encouraging the use of multi-modal transit, which is also beneficial for the creation of authentic, sustainable urban environments. Lastly it's being built in an area that's been neglected and ignored for a long time, and has become a haven for undesirable behaviors. David Adelman, in a recent article, said he's "paying $500 a week for biohazard cleanup due to persistent crime and homelessness in the area," referring to property he owns right across the street. While this situation will improve dramatically in the next few years, this development will begin that improvement by bringing residents to the area. It's for these reasons that I object to you singling out this development for criticism.

You make great points. All that I did not take into much consideration. Thanks for laying these out. Hopefully, that area of SA will grow through this project. I still do think the design of the building is a little mediocre for a project that hopes to bring more sustainable growth. 5-10 years after it's built, it might start to look like the other buildings around it. Let's hope not. We do hope that it at least jumpstarts the area for future development.

[theOGalexd]

Drove around today and took some pics of some of the developments

Borden apartments, looks absolutely massive coming down south on 281
IMG_4468 by alexdskates210, on Flickr

Jefferson bank
IMG_4471 by alexdskates210, on Flickr

100 Labor
IMG_4488 by alexdskates210, on Flickr

UTSA
IMG_4499 by alexdskates210, on Flickr

[kornbread]

Re: https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/houston-street-car-removal-16320600.php

There is an article in the Express News today about closing Houston street. This is something I always thought the city should do. They’re halfway there now and so many other places have done it. I’m glad it’s on the minds of others with some influence.

There’s a lot to consider. What’s the feeling here on this idea and does it have a chance of happening?

My thinking is that aren’t any good downtown street level experiences for walking downtown now. Closest would be King William area. The only place in downtown is Alamo plaza/river center mall. They hope Hemisfair becomes a draw one day, and people do gather in the market.

A closed Houston street would be a nice connecting path between Alamo plaza and San Pedro creek/the market.

I think traffic can easily be diverted north. The cross streets would remain open. The Valencia is the only Hotel that might have more of a challenge with checking in, but it’s doable.

Thoughts?

[Rynetwo]

Originally Posted by kornbread

Re: https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/houston-street-car-removal-16320600.php

There is an article in the Express News today about closing Houston street. This is something I always thought the city should do. They’re halfway there now and so many other places have done it. I’m glad it’s on the minds of others with some influence.

There’s a lot to consider. What’s the feeling here on this idea and does it have a chance of happening?

My thinking is that aren’t any good downtown street level experiences for walking downtown now. Closest would be King William area. The only place in downtown is Alamo plaza/river center mall. They hope Hemisfair becomes a draw one day, and people do gather in the market.

A closed Houston street would be a nice connecting path between Alamo plaza and San Pedro creek/the market.

I think traffic can easily be diverted north. The cross streets would remain open. The Valencia is the only Hotel that might have more of a challenge with checking in, but it’s doable.

Thoughts?

I honestly feel there is no need. The street is one lane in each direction, the traffic moves slow and the sideways are massive. I just don’t know what you would gain especially with the cross traffic still there as that is the main impediment to the pedestrian.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Rynetwo

I honestly feel there is no need. The street is one lane in each direction, the traffic moves slow and the sideways are massive. I just don’t know what you would gain especially with the cross traffic still there as that is the main impediment to the pedestrian.

Agreed. That street is already one step removed from being a woonerf anyway. Each side of the street’s sidewalk is wider than the actual roadway.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by kornbread

Re: https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/houston-street-car-removal-16320600.php

There is an article in the Express News today about closing Houston street. This is something I always thought the city should do. They’re halfway there now and so many other places have done it. I’m glad it’s on the minds of others with some influence.

There’s a lot to consider. What’s the feeling here on this idea and does it have a chance of happening?

My thinking is that aren’t any good downtown street level experiences for walking downtown now. Closest would be King William area. The only place in downtown is Alamo plaza/river center mall. They hope Hemisfair becomes a draw one day, and people do gather in the market.

A closed Houston street would be a nice connecting path between Alamo plaza and San Pedro creek/the market.

I think traffic can easily be diverted north. The cross streets would remain open. The Valencia is the only Hotel that might have more of a challenge with checking in, but it’s doable.

Thoughts?

I like using Houston Street (in my car) as an East/West connector because it's a scenic and pleasant way to cross downtown, that said, taking this:



And making it something akin to this:



Or even something like this in Denver:


https://www.denver.org/things-to-do/denver-attractions/16th-street-mall/

Would be very nice.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Houston Street has been begging to be closed for years. It barely serves any purpose as a vehicle street, and it will be especially useless once the Alamo Plaza section is closed this year (if it hasn't been closed already). While we're at it, Presa and Crockett serve very little purpose as car streets as well. Those three streets basically turn into giant fly traps for cars on weekend nights anyway.

And there is absolutely a benefit to closing the street. Walking down Houston on a Friday night, it's basically a parking lot. It's so incredibly unpleasant to walk past a bunch idling cars on what is otherwise such a beautiful street, even if the sidewalks are giant. Our city deserves to have a one nice pedestrian street. The cars have all the other ones.

[deaththepeople]

Houston street should definitely be closed to vehicles. It doesn't serve as a major thoroughfare and the cars are a major nuisance visually, audibly, and environmentally. If any street in downtown is ripe for pedestrianization, its Houston. While we're at it lets also close the St Marys strip Thursday-Sunday nights like they did in the past and even S Alamo on First Fridays

[Spoiler]

Imagine Houston Street with a bunch of big-ass trees running down the middle of it, and tables and chairs for dining. The river and creek bridges could become unique focal points of some kind. Close Houston Street from San Saba to 3rd.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by Spoiler

Imagine Houston Street with a bunch of big-ass trees running down the middle of it, and tables and chairs for dining. The river and creek bridges could become unique focal points of some kind. Close Houston Street from San Saba to 3rd.

Yes!

[Keep-SA-Lame]

Originally Posted by deaththepeople

Houston street should definitely be closed to vehicles. It doesn't serve as a major thoroughfare and the cars are a major nuisance visually, audibly, and environmentally. If any street in downtown is ripe for pedestrianization, its Houston. While we're at it lets also close the St Marys strip Thursday-Sunday nights like they did in the past and even S Alamo on First Fridays

You know, I went out to the strip for the first time in forever this weekend and was thinking the same thing. Even just having the construction barriers up on half the street makes things a lot safer and nicer.

[kingkirbythe....]

This looks like a fun reuse. Maybe tearing down and building something new would be better?



Restaurant, office upgrades planned for CPS Energy’s former San Antonio River Walk building

https://saheron.com/restaurant-office-upgrades-cps-energy-former-building/

Los Angeles-based BH Properties, which purchased the former CPS Energy building at 146 Navarro St. earlier this year, plans to refurbish the office space, while adding a two-level restaurant on the ground level.

The ground-floor will be converted into a “food and beverage venue … with exterior dining and porches facing the river and La Villita,” according to plans submitted to the Historic and Design Review Commission, which will consider them on Wednesday. They call for modifications to the exterior, which include new landscaping and pavings, screenings on the parking garage facade, and the installation of two art panels.

[Spoiler]

Originally Posted by kingkirbythe....

This looks like a fun reuse. Maybe tearing down and building something new would be better?

None of us will live to see the day a downtown parking garage gets torn down.