Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[officedweller]

How Surrey's mayor won the political long game on SkyTrain
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-langley-skytrain-doug-mccallum

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by officedweller

How Surrey's mayor won the political long game on SkyTrain
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-langley-skytrain-doug-mccallum

it is good people saw what he said and voted him in. it is also good he stuck to his — and challenged Horgan.

overall, this is a much better result for Surrey, Langley, & the region as a whole.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Good question.
With the linear induction motors, would it just be an electrical strain or just poorer propulsion?

Some people said you have to deal with more generated heat from going up a steep grade or braking to come down as well.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Good question.
With the linear induction motors, would it just be an electrical strain or just poorer propulsion?

The harder the grade the less efficient the LIM's become. You wouldn't get any additional wheel or bearing wear. You can go as hard as 12% but at that point just going head-on into a strong wind will affect your speed.

Edited:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Some people said you have to deal with more generated heat from going up a steep grade or braking to come down as well.

The LIMs are actively cooled so they won't overheat under heavy loading. Same with the thyristors. Skytrains also use the LIM for regenerative braking so the actual disc brakes don't see a lot of use.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

it is good people saw what he said and voted him in. it is also good he stuck to his — and challenged Horgan.

overall, this is a much better result for Surrey, Langley, & the region as a whole.

Though let's not suddenly act like McCallum's a visionary. He's still the same nutbag who wanted to put the SkyTrain in a trench and somehow get it for cheaper than a streetcar... and started a losing legal battle on behalf of the taxi lobby... and wanted to turn Bridgeview into a canal district...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by MIPS

The harder the grade the less efficient the LIM's become. You wouldn't get any additional wheel or bearing wear. You can go as hard as 12% but at that point just going head-on into a strong wind will affect your speed.

Edited:

The LIMs are actively cooled so they won't overheat under heavy loading. Same with the thyristors. Skytrains also use the LIM for regenerative braking so the actual disc brakes don't see a lot of use.

In which case, why only 6%? Wouldn't 10-11% look better in the sales pitch?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by MIPS

The harder the grade the less efficient the LIM's become. You wouldn't get any additional wheel or bearing wear. You can go as hard as 12% but at that point just going head-on into a strong wind will affect your speed.

Edited:

The LIMs are actively cooled so they won't overheat under heavy loading. Same with the thyristors. Skytrains also use the LIM for regenerative braking so the actual disc brakes don't see a lot of use.

Here's the thread about overheating/LIMs:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165814&page=414

[officedweller]

Thanks for the info!

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Here's the thread about overheating/LIMs:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165814&page=414

It's also worth pointing out that LIM motors can also overheat. I've heard a few times during the summer heat, trains have been pulled out of service at Edmonds if the LIM motors were running hot, to avoid problems on the bridge and hills in Surrey.

Ah, well that's a shame.

[madog222]

They also need to consider the emergency braking ability.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by madog222

They also need to consider the emergency braking ability.

Or, throw in a few loops and banks and market it as a "feature". The PNE never did move out to Surrey, but at least there will be a roller coaster ride!

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Or, throw in a few loops and banks and market it as a "feature". The PNE never did move out to Surrey, but at least there will be a roller coaster ride!

No-fun-city who?

Originally Posted by xd_1771

The eastern gradient is signed at 7% (you can see that sign on westbound Fraser Highway just before you go down it), but there seems to be room on the north side (where the guideway will be) to come down closer to ground level if absolutely necessary. The western one is not signed but I measured it at around 6%.

I recall from reading a spec sheet that TransLink wants future line design to stick to a 6% maximum grade (the same as Bombardier puts on their spec sheet), but that portions of the current line are built to 6.5% and that new portions could operate at that grade if necessary. At any rate differences of 1-2% shouldn't matter much as it's easy to compensate for that with an elevated guideway, at least that seems to be the case at other places in our system like around 22nd St Station and on KGB up the hill into Surrey.

Just based on the gradient alone, I would almost assume that Translink would construct the guideway taller just to at least reduce the gradient change as it slowly begins to match the geographic gradient. Thankfully they seem to have a longer stretch to do this in at this point on the route so it seems possible to me .

[jollyburger]

Even the appraoch up to UBC is like 70-80m from Alma/Blanca where it then plateaus.

The steepest gradient along the Broadway Corridor is approximately 8%, located in the vicinity of Wallace Street on West 10th Avenue between Blanca Street and Alma Street. This gradient is not steep enough to preclude any rapid transit technologies from operating along this section.

They said they would still be tunneled at 6%.

https://skytrain.ubc.ca/wp-content/uploa...tudy-Phase-2-Alternatives-Evaluation.pdf

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by scryer

...Just based on the gradient alone, I would almost assume that Translink would construct the guideway taller just to at least reduce the gradient change as it slowly begins to match the geographic gradient.

The Millenium line where it crosses Highway 1 and also where it crosses the Kensington overpass shows that they can build those pillars pretty durned high when they need to.

[Klazu]

Will ice during winter pose any challenge for the first train in the morning to make it up a steep hill? Don't leaves also cause some wheel slipping in the fall?

[madog222]

That’s what makes LIM propulsion so great, the wheel don’t require traction.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Will ice during winter pose any challenge for the first train in the morning to make it up a steep hill? Don't leaves also cause some wheel slipping in the fall?

I think that's more of a problem with the Canada Line losing traction. They usually just have problems associated with snow/ice buildup in doors, intrusion sensors and power rails.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Will ice during winter pose any challenge for the first train in the morning to make it up a steep hill? Don't leaves also cause some wheel slipping in the fall?

Nah think of the LIM like some electromagnetic rack and pinion. The wheels are just there to guide it.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They said it would take four years. That isn't surprisingly fast.. If they built it in two years that would be a surprise.

Most of the time is building stations. Guideways and tracks are pretty quick. I'd be surprised if it isn't all up in 2 years and they are basically working on stations and testing the final few years.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Most of the time is building stations. Guideways and tracks are pretty quick. I'd be surprised if it isn't all up in 2 years and they are basically working on stations and testing the final few years.

I seriously hope they go back to building stations more like the original expo line. So more using the same design over and over again to speed things up and keep costs down. The stations don't all have to be unique. I totally understand the foundation portions and some minor adjustments may be required but really not every station needs to be like re-inventing the wheel and all. They can spruce things up by adding art or something while keeping station design uniform...