PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Some bad news:

Exclusive: Radian to move HQ to Wayne, departing from Center City after four decades

Hopefully won't be too large of a trend

you never know. The declining retail and increase in urban annoyances in center city is noticeable. Ive been going into office a couple days a week for last 3 months or so. Its not a great look, especially on the east side of city hall. The lack of conventioneers, workers and tourists makes the existing issues seem that much more noticeable. A lot of this was going on before COVID and are only more pronounced now that center city is half empty.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by kingtut

Safety and security override those
factors .

i agree. While there are very few actual incidents involving office workers- the aesthetics and the hassles are not good. I've never seen or smelled so many bad things downtown as I have in the last 2-3 years. Its like this around reading terminal which is a major hub for locals and tourists alike. If I walk more than 2 blocks Im almost guaranteed to see some human waste in a corner or alcove.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

To your point, not all suburbs are are boring cul de sacs and strip shopping centers. Philadelphia has some very attractive suburbs that are also near some extremely powerful economic centers - Ardmore, Conshohocken, Media, etc. I am a city person, but I could see why a couple in their 30s would relocate to Ardmore, especially if they have kids.

But as you said, it is not doom and gloom. The city will continue to prosper either way, however, getting high paying jobs is key, so when companies like Radian move to Wayne, that is not good and hopefully a rare occurrence going forward.

agreed. People who are die hard suburb haters seem to adopt a mentality that the City is only game in town for "young" people so the details don't really matter. Isnt this the same kind of attitude that would be heavily criticized if it was being expressed by tax and spend local politicians? I'm not sure that "the suburbs sucks so we have nothing to worry about" is a realistic view of the situation.

[TonyTone]

https://6abc.com/10866746/

Ouch. Looks like had a minor crane accident as well.

Ours unfortunately resulted in one death.

[700 Level]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

To your point, not all suburbs are are boring cul de sacs and strip shopping centers. Philadelphia has some very attractive suburbs that are also near some extremely powerful economic centers - Ardmore, Conshohocken, Media, etc. I am a city person, but I could see why a couple in their 30s would relocate to Ardmore, especially if they have kids.

But as you said, it is not doom and gloom. The city will continue to prosper either way, however, getting high paying jobs is key, so when companies like Radian move to Wayne, that is not good and hopefully a rare occurrence going forward.

I agree with these comments. People tend to oversimplify the "city" vs. the "suburbs". Living in a walkable suburb such as Wayne, Media, West Chester, Ardmore, etc. is much more like city living than many corners of the actual city. Each of these towns include pockets of density that are comparable to a city neighborhood and do not require a car. On one hand, these towns have lower crime, lower income taxes, significantly better schools, and allow you to easily keep a car for secondary use. On the other hand, the suburban towns have higher property taxes, a lower level of general activity, fewer eating/play options, and are less convenient to major events and cultural institutions. For a young family with children in the age 6 to 18 range, these towns are very attractive. The city neighborhoods compares well for other demographic groups, particularly those in their 20s and 30s as well as empty nesters.

One other influence to ponder: the relative tax rates on income vs. property are incentivizing people to be outside the city during their peak earning years and inside the city around the edges. This is not going to drive everyone's decision for sure, but it can influence it. Some of the attitudes expressed by City Council towards commuters do not help keep the Radians of the world inside the city limits in our new world of fluid work/home environment.

[cardeza]

^good point. If a huge number of people at a company are already working from home that sort of undercuts the notion that people value reporting to work in a vibrant downtown environment. So if you have a half empty cc office it makes it easier for the execs to cut ties with that location and move where THEY want to be- i.e. closer to where they live on the main line.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by 700 Level

I agree with these comments. People tend to oversimplify the "city" vs. the "suburbs". Living in a walkable suburb such as Wayne, Media, West Chester, Ardmore, etc. is much more like city living than many corners of the actual city. Each of these towns include pockets of density that are comparable to a city neighborhood and do not require a car. On one hand, these towns have lower crime, lower income taxes, significantly better schools, and allow you to easily keep a car for secondary use. On the other hand, the suburban towns have higher property taxes, a lower level of general activity, fewer eating/play options, and are less convenient to major events and cultural institutions. For a young family with children in the age 6 to 18 range, these towns are very attractive. The city neighborhoods compares well for other demographic groups, particularly those in their 20s and 30s as well as empty nesters.

All very true. Overall, I think the city vs. suburb debate is very antiquated. The fact of the matter is Philadelphia offers a very wide range of desirable neighborhood typologies, paralleled by only a handful of other major cities. It's actually essential to any successful metropolitan area. From the bona fide high-rise living of Center City to the bucolic rural countryside of Kennett Square, Greater Philadelphia thrives on this diversity and everyone should recognize that.

I understand that the economic structure of metro areas necessitates some level of "competition" between the central city and its suburbs, but there's always going to be an ebb and flow of companies for potentially thousands of reasons (i.e., it's not always tax related). Not all is lost, either--with the greater acceptance of remote work, that really does open the option of city living for folks who may not have had the chance otherwise, even if their job HQ is based in Wayne.

[summersm343]

Construction Progresses At North Liberty Triangle At 1115-27 North American Street In Northern Liberties

Rendering:


Current progress:




Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/07/structur...rthern-liberties-north-philadelphia.html

[summersm343]

Construction Nearly Topped Out At 629 West Girard Avenue In Ludlow

Rendering:


Current progress:


Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/07/framing-...avenue-in-ludlow-north-philadelphia.html

[summersm343]

Permits Issued For Renovation At 178-80 West Huntingdon Street In West Kensington

Permits have been issued for a large multi-family conversion of an existing industrial structure at 178-80 Huntingdon Street in West Kensington. The building rises six stories tall at its highest point. Once completed, 49 residential units will be added to the building. The permit states that the units will be artist studios. In total, the building features 13,196 square feet of floor space. The conversion will cost an estimated $6 million.

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/07/permits-...-west-kensington-north-philadelphia.html

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by 700 Level

I agree with these comments. People tend to oversimplify the "city" vs. the "suburbs". Living in a walkable suburb such as Wayne, Media, West Chester, Ardmore, etc. is much more like city living than many corners of the actual city. Each of these towns include pockets of density that are comparable to a city neighborhood and do not require a car. On one hand, these towns have lower crime, lower income taxes, significantly better schools, and allow you to easily keep a car for secondary use. On the other hand, the suburban towns have higher property taxes, a lower level of general activity, fewer eating/play options, and are less convenient to major events and cultural institutions. For a young family with children in the age 6 to 18 range, these towns are very attractive. The city neighborhoods compares well for other demographic groups, particularly those in their 20s and 30s as well as empty nesters.

One other influence to ponder: the relative tax rates on income vs. property are incentivizing people to be outside the city during their peak earning years and inside the city around the edges. This is not going to drive everyone's decision for sure, but it can influence it. Some of the attitudes expressed by City Council towards commuters do not help keep the Radians of the world inside the city limits in our new world of fluid work/home environment.

Agree with all. But the bolded part worries me. I understand the goal is to lower the wage tax burden for everyone, but the mentality of f*ck them if they chose to live in the burbs and work in the city is not a good look.

There will always be a level of competition between city and suburbs, but the careless and backward approach from some Council members toward economic growth is really something... When was the last time Council actually put effort into luring businesses and companies into the city from elsewhere? At least Mayor Nutter flew to Europe several times showcasing Philadelphia as the place to expand when considering North America. We see none of that from current leadership. Thank goodness there are motivated industry leaders and renowned institutions that make up for the "do-nothing" approach from the city.

Another article related to this topic from today's Inquirer. Increased office vacancy is a nationwide issue, and Philadelphia is actually better off (at the moment) than some other large central business districts. Fingers crossed for Life Science explosive growth.

Philly’s Center City office district holding firm but could see more departures post COVID-19
https://www.inquirer.com/business/center-city-philly-office-vacancy-post-covid-20210707.html

I also read an article about Axalta Coating Systems buying overseas companies, and they are in the process of vacating their Center City space and consolidating in The Navy Yard and Glen Mills. Another gut punch to Center City that I forgot about.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Permits Issued For Renovation At 178-80 West Huntingdon Street In West Kensington





Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2021/07/permits-...-west-kensington-north-philadelphia.html

Note that the summary on the PhillyYimby main page is incorrect, although the author did change the body of the article after I commented there. What the permit specifies is: "Interior alterations and structural work to create artist studios AND [emphasis added] (49) dwelling units…," so not 49 artists studios, but rather an unspecified number of artist studios PLUS 49 dwelling units.

A few more details, including the name of the developer behind the LLC and a copy of the successful National Register of Historic Places nomination for Sykes Brothers Yarn Mill (obviously they'll be seeking federal historic tax credits) can be found at Philadelphia Industrial & Commercial Heritage: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhiladelphiaIndustrialHeritage/posts/2990500077905292/

National Register of Historic Places nomination: https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhiladelphiaIndustrialHeritage/posts/2990494674572499

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 700 Level

I agree with these comments. People tend to oversimplify the "city" vs. the "suburbs". Living in a walkable suburb such as Wayne, Media, West Chester, Ardmore, etc. is much more like city living than many corners of the actual city. Each of these towns include pockets of density that are comparable to a city neighborhood and do not require a car. On one hand, these towns have lower crime, lower income taxes, significantly better schools, and allow you to easily keep a car for secondary use. On the other hand, the suburban towns have higher property taxes, a lower level of general activity, fewer eating/play options, and are less convenient to major events and cultural institutions. For a young family with children in the age 6 to 18 range, these towns are very attractive. The city neighborhoods compares well for other demographic groups, particularly those in their 20s and 30s as well as empty nesters.

One other influence to ponder: the relative tax rates on income vs. property are incentivizing people to be outside the city during their peak earning years and inside the city around the edges. This is not going to drive everyone's decision for sure, but it can influence it. Some of the attitudes expressed by City Council towards commuters do not help keep the Radians of the world inside the city limits in our new world of fluid work/home environment.

This is the great thing about the Philly metro but it can also be a bad thing as well because not only is there the external competition but there is also internal. And as the 'burbs start to churn out more and more of these live/work/play developments and some of the older ones continue to densify and knock down old stuff for new it's going to be even more competitive.

And there's also a lot of out of sight/out of mind costs that people don't think of that can add into the big picture: car insurance is generally cheaper outside of city limits, sales tax is 6% vs 8%...

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

This is the great thing about the Philly metro but it can also be a bad thing as well because not only is there the external competition but there is also internal. And as the 'burbs start to churn out more and more of these live/work/play developments and some of the older ones continue to densify and knock down old stuff for new it's going to be even more competitive.

And there's also a lot of out of sight/out of mind costs that people don't think of that can add into the big picture: car insurance is generally cheaper outside of city limits, sales tax is 6% vs 8%...

If they’re all as god awful as what’s going up in KOP along 422 near the mall, we have nothing to worry about.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by other posters above regarding Philly City Council. Philadelphia itself isn’t what worries me, it’s its leadership going forward. We need less Clarkes and more Rhynhearts.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

If they’re all as god awful as what’s going up in KOP along 422 near the mall, we have nothing to worry about.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by other posters above regarding Philly City Council. Philadelphia itself isn’t what worries me, it’s its leadership going forward. We need less Clarkes and more Rhynhearts.

Honestly, I like the KOP Town Center. I think it's very well done. Perfect? No, not at all... but well done nonetheless. The amount they have build there in just a few short years is nothing short of astonishing. Clearly people like it and want to live there with how many residential units have been built and absorbed there. If that level of explosive growth was happening in a city neighborhood, we'd be jumping for joy.

I'm OK with the city vs. suburbs. Philadelphia does have some very attractive, urban and walkable towns and small cities - Ardmore, Media, Phoenixville, West Chester, Bristol, Ambler, Doylestown, Conshohocken, Haddonfield, Collingswood, Newark, Wilmington, etc. etc... the list goes on. Plus, some nice "new urban" town centers like King of Prussia and Exton. At least these companies are staying in the metro area... plus...we're talking about Radian who had maybe 200 to 300 employees in Center City, and Axalta who had maybe 100 employees at their Center City offices. It could certainly be worse, and I feel as if these spaces will be backfilled pretty easily.

We do need a more business friendly city government and state government in general, but hopefully, this little Life Sciences thing will continue to take off in Philadelphia. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

[summersm343]

46-Unit, Mixed-Use Building Planned at Ridge and Spring Garden

Rendering:


Rendering:


Current site:


Read/view more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/46-unit-mixed-use-building-planned-at-ridge-and-spring-garden/

[summersm343]

30-Unit, Mixed-Use Building Planned at Broad and Toronto



Read/view more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/30-unit-mixed-use-building-planned-at-broad-and-toronto/

[summersm343]

Second Round of July CDR Submissions are up!

417-25 Callowhill Street
-In SoNo/Northern Liberties/Callowhill neighborhood - whatever you want to call it.
-7-floors
-219 residential units
PDF:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20210707093735/417-25-Callowhill-Street_CDR_July-20-2021-Review.pdf

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

46-Unit, Mixed-Use Building Planned at Ridge and Spring Garden

Rendering:


Rendering:


Current site:


Read/view more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/46-unit-mixed-use-building-planned-at-ridge-and-spring-garden/

Wow. This is actually awesome.

That massive lot across the street is begging for someone like Southern Land or even Blumenfeld to buy it and develop it.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

If they’re all as god awful as what’s going up in KOP along 422 near the mall, we have nothing to worry about.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Honestly, I like the KOP Town Center. I think it's very well done. Perfect? No, not at all... but well done nonetheless. The amount they have build there in just a few short years is nothing short of astonishing. Clearly people like it and want to live there with how many residential units have been built and absorbed there. If that level of explosive growth was happening in a city neighborhood, we'd be jumping for joy.

I agree. And how many people actually care THAT much? Can I walk to things? Check. Nice apartments? Check. Places to eat? Check. A nice grocery store right there? Check. It's really just that simple in most cases.