VIA Rail network developments - Page 104

roger1818 · #**2061** Posted **Apr 27, 2021, 4:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

They have already committed to using significant chunks of the CP mainline (between the Don Valley and Scarborough, West of Smith Falls.

First of all, they don't need to use CP's mainline track. They could easily do like Metrolinx frequently does and build their own track adjacent to CP's mainline track. This could be done on CP's ROW or on a parallel ROW. The former is likely the preferred option, but the latter could be done between Smiths Falls and Glen Tay. Knowing how much VIA estimates it would cost would give CP an edge in their negotiations.

As for the couple km between CP's Toronto Yard and GO's Uxbridge Sub, it is mostly quadruple track (yet most of the Belleville Sub east of the yard is single track), so obtaining dedicated track should be easy. While connecting via the Belleville Sub is a vastly preferable route, there is the alternative option of connecting to the Uxbridge Sub north of Markham. Once again, if CP sees VIA's detailed analysis of that option, it would give CP an edge in their negotiations.

Quote:

Your hypothesis that they are delaying the whole project an additional 5 years over possible negotiations over a small section between Alexandria and Dorval seems unconvincing.

I never said anything about delaying the project. Don't forget, unlike Metrolinx, VIA doesn't have money in its annual budget to do skunkworks projects to evaluate ways to improve service, so while with Metrolinx you won't hear about plans until they have gone through a first round of high level study, VIA needs to ask for money (and thus publicly announce the idea) before they can even start that first high level study. Overall, VIA's hands are tied and can only get financing on the government's terms.

acottawa · #**2062** Posted **Apr 27, 2021, 10:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

I never said anything about delaying the project. Don't forget, unlike Metrolinx, VIA doesn't have money in its annual budget to do skunkworks projects to evaluate ways to improve service, so while with Metrolinx you won't hear about plans until they have gone through a first round of high level study, VIA needs to ask for money (and thus publicly announce the idea) before they can even start that first high level study. Overall, VIA's hands are tied and can only get financing on the government's terms.

Metrolinx publishes its studies, so you have a fairly detailed idea of what they’re planning or considering. Often nothing comes of them because the cost benefit doesn’t make sense for the provincial government (Peterborough GO comes to mind). Via doesn’t publish anything but a few lines in its annual reports and the odd meme. We are 6 years into this proposal and the HFR “website” has almost no content.

My understanding is the discussion was about reasons why the announced funding over the next 6 years is only a fraction of what it would cost to build the project Via has been describing.

roger1818 · #**2063** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 2:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

Metrolinx publishes its studies, so you have a fairly detailed idea of what they’re planning or considering. Often nothing comes of them because the cost benefit doesn’t make sense for the provincial government (Peterborough GO comes to mind). Via doesn’t publish anything but a few lines in its annual reports and the odd meme. We are 6 years into this proposal and the HFR “website” has almost no content.

Does Metrolinx announce that they are going to do a 5 year preliminary study a few years before they have the money to commission it? Do they publish draft studies before they are complete? If not, how long does it take for them to publish the study after it is complete?

VIA only just completed their first actual study on HFR. Everything else was preliminary work to justify money from the government and the only way they could get that money was to announce it prematurely.

Quote:

My understanding is the discussion was about reasons why the announced funding over the next 6 years is only a fraction of what it would cost to build the project Via has been describing.

It certainly started with that and then migrated. I am certainly puzzled by the timeline and budget. If they had only promised 5 or 10 million, it would be obvious that the government is just doing a lateral pass instead of saying no, but with the budget promised the commitment seems more real. Then again, any money promised beyond 2021-22 isn't truly real, as it could be cut from the budget next year.

Some say the rest of the money will come from the CIB, and while that might be the case, I am not convinced. Another option (and it is just a guess) is that VIA may have some confidential insight to a future "event," that if/when it happens, it will make HFR easier. This is only a guess and I can only speculate what type of event it could be, but some ideas are:

The government plans to build a freight rail bypass around Toronto,
CN and/or CP want to relocate the Côte Saint-Luc yard off island, or
Some type of rail merger or purchase involving CP (or less likely CN).

I don't know if any of these events will happen, but even one of them could make the acquisition of key assets required by VIA much easier. Yes I am grasping at straws, but as I said, the timeframe and budget are a bit of mystery as things just don't quite make sense with the information we have.

acottawa · #**2064** Posted **Apr 28, 2021, 10:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Does Metrolinx announce that they are going to do a 5 year preliminary study a few years before they have the money to commission it? Do they publish draft studies before they are complete? If not, how long does it take for them to publish the study after it is complete?

VIA only just completed their first actual study on HFR. Everything else was preliminary work to justify money from the government and the only way they could get that money was to announce it prematurely.

It certainly started with that and then migrated. I am certainly puzzled by the timeline and budget. If they had only promised 5 or 10 million, it would be obvious that the government is just doing a lateral pass instead of saying no, but with the budget promised the commitment seems more real. Then again, any money promised beyond 2021-22 isn't truly real, as it could be cut from the budget next year.

Some say the rest of the money will come from the CIB, and while that might be the case, I am not convinced. Another option (and it is just a guess) is that VIA may have some confidential insight to a future "event," that if/when it happens, it will make HFR easier. This is only a guess and I can only speculate what type of event it could be, but some ideas are:

The government plans to build a freight rail bypass around Toronto,
CN and/or CP want to relocate the Côte Saint-Luc yard off island, or
Some type of rail merger or purchase involving CP (or less likely CN).

I don't know if any of these events will happen, but even one of them could make the acquisition of key assets required by VIA much easier. Yes I am grasping at straws, but as I said, the timeframe and budget are a bit of mystery as things just don't quite make sense with the information we have.

Metrolinx publishes all sorts of things. They even have a separate website for community engagement. https://www.metrolinxengage.com/en

The government has been spending money on studying this proposal since 2016, including 70 million for a Joint Project Office in 2019. I find it unlikely they have commissioned no publishable work or analysis in this 5 year period.

It is possible the announcement will come from CIB, but then the “Government of Canada” portion is weirdly small, and weirdly specific at this early stage. To me “$491.2 million over six years, starting in 2021-22, to VIA Rail for infrastructure investments that would support the overall success of the HFR project” sounds like routine capital spending in the corridor which thru are branding as HFR related.

Dominion301 · #**2065** Posted **May 13, 2021, 5:55 PM**

Here's some breaking news that will affect Via: Greyhound Canada's 'temporary' COVID-19 shutdown is now permanent!

Full story: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gre...nada-1.6025276

Greyhound USA will continue to serve Canada.

I wonder who will fill the void in Ottawa, especially to Montreal? I would imagine Ontario Northland will increase service to North Bay/Sudbury. I wonder if Mega Bus will start serving Ottawa to Kingston & Toronto?

roger1818 · #**2066** Posted **May 13, 2021, 7:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Here's some breaking news that will affect Via: Greyhound Canada's 'temporary' COVID-19 shutdown is now permanent!

Full story: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gre...nada-1.6025276

Greyhound USA will continue to serve Canada.

I wonder who will fill the void in Ottawa, especially to Montreal? I would imagine Ontario Northland will increase service to North Bay/Sudbury. I wonder if Mega Bus will start serving Ottawa to Kingston & Toronto?

This probably belongs in the intercity bus thread, but I think megabus will takeover the the entire TOM corridor (they already have buses between Montreal and Toronto). They may also takeover the routes in western Ontario as well.

Ontario Northland may also add a second bus from Ottawa to North Bay/Sudbury. They may also take over the Peterborough to Pembroke bus.

417 Bus Lines may takeover Greyhound's bus from Ottawa to Cornwall.

roger1818 · #**2067** Posted **May 26, 2021, 8:59 PM**

I posted this on the one of the national VIA Rail threads. I am looking forward to seeing them testing them this year along the Alexandria Sub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

VIA Rail has revealed the Final Design of it’s New Fleet.

• Video Link

There website also has updated renderings.

Dengler Avenue · #**2068** Posted **May 27, 2021, 2:31 PM**

Have we talked about this before?
Run trains from Toronto to Palladium Drive (aka the westernmost stop on O-Train) under a provincial agency;
Hopefully Gatineau Train will be a thing and it will connect with O-Train;
Run trains from the easternmost limit of Gatineau Train to Deux-Montagnes (last stop on D.M. REM); <Edit: Sainte-Thérèse, actually>
From there, people can take REM to MTL.
So that’s 4+ transfers. It’s not ideal, but it’s something. The tracks on Quebec side see so little freight traffic that an arrangement similar to that of Trillium Line seems feasible. This way we avoid Winchester Subdivision altogether.
Ps: I also wonder how the train between Gatineau and Deux Montagnes will impact traffic level on A50.

phil235 · #**2069** Posted **May 27, 2021, 2:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Have we talked about this before?
Run trains from Toronto to Palladium Drive (aka the westernmost stop on O-Train) under a provincial agency;
Hopefully Gatineau Train will be a thing and it will connect with O-Train;
Run trains from the easternmost limit of Gatineau Train to Deux-Montagnes (last stop on D.M. REM);
From there, people can take REM to MTL.
So that’s 4+ transfers. It’s not ideal, but it’s something. The tracks on Quebec side see so little freight traffic that an arrangement similar to that of Trillium Line seems feasible. This way we avoid Winchester Subdivision altogether.
Ps: I also wonder how the train between Gatineau and Deux Montagnes will impact traffic level on A50.

I don't see much demand for this type of service. One of the biggest advantages of the train is downtown-downtown service. If I was VIA, I'd be holding onto that arrangement.

acottawa · #**2070** Posted **May 27, 2021, 3:07 PM**

Whoever edited that video made Via service look dramatically better than it is.

roger1818 · #**2071** Posted **May 27, 2021, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

Whoever edited that video made Via service look dramatically better than it is.

When did you get the chance to ride on the new fleet? I don't see how that would be possible since the first train hasn't even been delivered yet.

Truenorth00 · #**2072** Posted **May 27, 2021, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

Whoever edited that video made Via service look dramatically better than it is.

You do get that the new trains have better interiors right? It's the same interior at Brightline in Florida.

roger1818 · #**2073** Posted **Jul 1, 2021, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

One person dead in a train-truck crash near Richmond

Josh Pringle Digital Multi-Skilled Journalist

Jackie Perez Multi-Skilled Journalist

Published Wednesday, June 30, 2021 1:30PM EDT
Last Updated Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:15AM EDT

OTTAWA -- Ottawa police and the Transportation Safety Board are now investigating a fatal collision involving a VIA Rail train in the Richmond area.

The 28-year-old driver of the truck was pronounced dead at the scene following the collision Wednesday afternoon.

Emergency crews responded to a call for a collision at Barnsdale Road and Eagleson Road at approximately 12:20 p.m.

Ottawa Paramedics tell CTV News Ottawa one person was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police will only the 28-year-old driver of the truck was pronounced dead at the scene. The Ottawa Police Service Collision Investigations Unit is leading the investigation.

In a statement to CTV News Ottawa, VIA Rail says train #53 travelling from Ottawa to Toronto was involved in a "rail crossing collision at 12:16 p.m. on the Smiths Falls subdivision near Richmond."

VIA Rail says 120 passengers were on board the train. No passengers or VIA Rail employees were injured.

"This incident will impact the schedule of train #40 and possibly trains #55 and #42 as we expect a delay of approximately three hours," said VIA Rail. "We are focusing our efforts on bringing customers currently en route to their final destinations as quickly and as safely as possible."

VIA Rail train #53 left Ottawa at 11:45 a.m. and was scheduled to arrive in Toronto at 4:33 p.m.

Just after 6 p.m. VIA Rail said alternative transportation was provided to all passengers on train #53. Three buses arrived at the tracks to transport passengers.

Stranded for most of the day, Emerson Frenette and Jordyn Gattie waited patiently to get home to Oshawa.

"Just trying to get home as quick as we can," said Frenette, a university student.

The two left Ottawa at 11:45 a.m. to see family for the long week. Instead, the VIA Train scheduled to arrive in Toronto at 4:33 p.m. came to a halt after being involved in the collision.

"It’s been a day," said Frenette.

Just after 6 p.m. all 120 passengers were off the train and loaded on to buses. Some taken to the Nepean Sportsplex, others directly to Toronto.

"We’re glad to be off," said Margaret Thompson, who was trying to get back home to Toronto after visiting friends in Ottawa. After the day’s events, Thompson and her two kids are staying an extra night in the city before heading to their final destination of Toronto.

"These guys did amazing all things considered," she said about her kids.

The Transportation Safety Board announced early Wednesday evening it was launching an investigation into the fatal collision.

"The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) is deploying a team of investigators following an accident involving a VIA Rail passenger train and a commercial road vehicle in Richmond, Ontario," said a statement from the TSB.

"The TSB will gather information and assess the occurrence."

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/one-person...mond-1.5491790

roger1818 · #**2074** Posted **Jul 1, 2021, 2:18 PM**

It isn't clear if the collision occurred on Barnsdale Rd or Eagleson Rd (the tracks cross both), though I suspect the former, as it was the road mentioned first. I had suggested back in post #916 that the crossing on Barnsdale road (among others) could easily be removed by rerouting the road to intersect Eagleson just south of the crossing.

EDIT: I updated the map to move the new intersection 100m south of the crossing, to match the distance MacFarlane Rd's was detoured south of the crossing at Merivale.

Norman Bates · #**2075** Posted **Jul 2, 2021, 7:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

It isn't clear if the collision occurred on Barnsdale Rd or Eagleson Rd (the tracks cross both), though I suspect the former, as it was the road mentioned first. I had suggested back in post #916 that the crossing on Barnsdale road (among others) could easily be removed by rerouting the road to intersect Eagleson just south of the crossing.

EDIT: I updated the map to move the new intersection 100m south of the crossing, to match the distance MacFarlane Rd's was detoured south of the crossing at Merivale.

That’s a great looking safety adjustment to the roadway. What are the chances it could be realized?

Williamoforange · #**2076** Posted **Jul 2, 2021, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

That’s a great looking safety adjustment to the roadway. What are the chances it could be realized?

It will probably only be realized if VIA HFR goes through, short of that its not really an issue

The only change I would make to it is move it even farther down and connect it to Ottawa st. At least then one of the many jump cut of barnsdale would be fixed.

roger1818 · #**2077** Posted **Jul 2, 2021, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

It will probably only be realized if VIA HFR goes through, short of that its not really an issue

Tell that to the family of the truck driver who died the other day crossing the tracks here. Prior to COVID, VIA was running 20 trains a day (10 each way) along that line (plus any remaining freight trains CN was running prior to their discontinuance). Sure HFR would further increase that, but there is already plenty to make it worth closing one of the two crossings. It isn't as if expropriating that tiny bit of farm land would cost all that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The only change I would make to it is move it even farther down and connect it to Ottawa st. At least then one of the many jump cut of barnsdale would be fixed.

I thought of detouring Barnsdale Rd align with Ottawa St, but it would make for a much longer detour for those going to/coming from the north on Eagleson (which is probably a significant proportion of the traffic. There is also a barn they would need to work around or demolish.

Besides, the crossing on Ottawa Street is another I would like to see closed, but that one would be much harder, especially considering the land west of Eagleson and north of the tracks is zoned EP.

J.OT13 · #**2078** Posted **Jul 4, 2021, 12:35 PM**

Not getting my hopes up.

Quote:

Transport Action Canada
@TransportAction
Stay tuned for a federal announcement on High Frequency Rail in the next few days. #viarail

https://www.msn.com/fr-ca/actualites...ine/ar-AALC15n

11:35 AM · Jul 1, 2021·Hootsuite Inc.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Transport...22988182081550

J.OT13 · #**2079** Posted **Jul 5, 2021, 6:22 PM**

Tweet from Transport Minister Omar Alghabra. It seems the announcement tomorrow will be the launch of the procurement for HFR between Quebec City and Toronto, with max speeds of up to 200 km/h.

https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/sta...04935144136707

Truenorth00 · #**2080** Posted **Jul 5, 2021, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Tweet from Transport Minister Omar Alghabra. It seems the announcement tomorrow will be the launch of the procurement for HFR between Quebec City and Toronto, with max speeds of up to 200 km/h.

https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/sta...04935144136707

Exciting if there's actual substance behind this and it's not just another announcement about an announcement. I am so hungry for this project, in no small part because of what it would do for Ottawa sandwiched between Toronto and Montreal.

200 kph seems interesting. That's Class 7 track. This is what the Acela runs on with part of the Northeast Corridor.