Great Lakes Cities

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's because American/Canadian English escaped Britain before the Brits changed their accent.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english

This is commonly thought, but not exactly true. Both accents drifted over time from a common origin. In some ways North American English is more conservative. For example, we still use some vocabulary which has dropped out of use in the UK (diaper, calling the season between summer and winter fall, etc.), and most U.S. accents are still rhotic (pronounce the R) which is an innovation British English picked up in the 19th century. But in other ways American English has changed over time.

Here's a link to a semi-accurate 18th century accent as Benjamin Franklin would have spoken (embed not working for some reason - edited it out). It doesn't really sound RP or American. Sounds like some Northern English accents, Irish, or "pirate talk" to us.

[Centropolis]

my favorite niche accent is the old school new orleans accent - you hear it more in less touristy places…the paragon of mutant u.s. accents…if i could pick an accent this would be mine lol.

These two varieties specific to New Orleans likely developed around the turn of the nineteenth century and most noticeably combine speech features commonly associated with both New York City English and, to a lesser extent, Southern U.S. English.[1]

[Centropolis]

i probably have the dollar store version of a new orleans accent - northern vowel shift torn up with north and south midland characteristics or vice-versa.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

my favorite niche accent is the old school new orleans accent - you hear it more in less touristy places…the paragon of mutant u.s. accents…if i could pick an accent this would be mine lol.

These two varieties specific to New Orleans likely developed around the turn of the nineteenth century and most noticeably combine speech features commonly associated with both New York City English and, to a lesser extent, Southern U.S. English.[1]

Yep. This accent is called Yat, and associated with working-class white folks in New Orleans.

It's probably all but dead in New Orleans proper today, other than maybe neighborhoods like West End and Lakeview, but my understanding it's it's still holding on pretty strong in neighboring parts of Jefferson Parish.

[kool maudit]

I just looked up that Yat accent and man, it's unique. To my ears it almost kind of averages down into something like "Ralph Kramden the Boston Brahmin"; the Southern elements hit the Brooklyn-ish ones in such a way as to almost create a bit of a transatlantic effect overall.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by eschaton

This is commonly thought, but not exactly true. Both accents drifted over time from a common origin. In some ways North American English is more conservative. For example, we still use some vocabulary which has dropped out of use in the UK (diaper, calling the season between summer and winter fall, etc.), and most U.S. accents are still rhotic (pronounce the R) which is an innovation British English picked up in the 19th century. But in other ways American English has changed over time.

Here's a link to a semi-accurate 18th century accent as Benjamin Franklin would have spoken (embed not working for some reason - edited it out). It doesn't really sound RP or American. Sounds like some Northern English accents, Irish, or "pirate talk" to us.

It sounds very West Indian, which makes a lot of sense to me. But it still sounds closer to what we speak than the accents of the British Isles, IMO.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Weirdly, I have noticed a few "aboat"-like pronunciations from people in the Tri-State area lately. Anna Khachiyan from the Red Scare podcast has this, it's like a kind of outer-borough white ethnic accent that gets so clipped that it approaches the edge of Anglo Montreal, which is less "Canadian" than the standard but still has a bit of raising on that word.

Montreal-Anglos are very "ethnic", kinda similar to the Northeast Corridor in a lot of ways. Italian is the most common ancestry after "Canadian" and "French" (the vast majority obviously) in the Montreal area and it's the plurality ancestry group for English-speakers. Jews also make up a significant share of the English-speaking population.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Yep. This accent is called Yat, and associated with working-class white folks in New Orleans.

It's probably all but dead in New Orleans proper today, other than maybe neighborhoods like West End and Lakeview, but my understanding it's it's still holding on pretty strong in neighboring parts of Jefferson Parish.

You can still hear it among old timers and younger blue collar types in uptown and environs. My landlady and next-door neighbor was just about queen of the uptown Yats. I would drink Budweisers on the porch with her and would sometimes forget that she was a native New Orleanian and not a longshoreman’s daughter from Red Hook Brooklyn.

From A confederacy of dunces… “There is a New Orleans city accent . . . associated with downtown New Orleans, particularly with the German and Irish Third Ward, that is hard to distinguish from the accent of Hoboken, Jersey City, and Astoria, Long Island, where the Al Smith inflection, extinct in Manhattan, has taken refuge. The reason, as you might expect, is that the same stocks that brought the accent to Manhattan imposed it on New Orleans."

[Razor]

Exaggerated Cartoon Accents

Bugs Bunny?
Barney Rubble?
Yosemite Sam?

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by pj3000

You can still hear it among old timers and younger blue collar types in uptown and environs. My landlady and next-door neighbor was just about queen of the uptown Yats. I would drink Budweisers on the porch with her and would sometimes forget that she was a native New Orleanian and not a longshoreman’s daughter from Red Hook Brooklyn.

From A confederacy of dunces… “There is a New Orleans city accent . . . associated with downtown New Orleans, particularly with the German and Irish Third Ward, that is hard to distinguish from the accent of Hoboken, Jersey City, and Astoria, Long Island, where the Al Smith inflection, extinct in Manhattan, has taken refuge. The reason, as you might expect, is that the same stocks that brought the accent to Manhattan imposed it on New Orleans."

i remember the first time i heard that accent at a spot down at the end of bywater (or whatever the neighborhood is by the canal). the most confusing north american english dialect i’d ever heard. i thought maybe there were some group of transplants from an outer borough of nyc, moved when they were much younger and the accent sat on the stove in new orleans for a bit

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Razor

Exaggerated Cartoon Accents

Bugs Bunny?
Barney Rubble?
Yosemite Sam?

It's pretty obvious that a lot of the mid-century cartoons are speaking exaggerated Brooklynese. I mean, Bugs and his buddies, especially.

Most of the animation houses were out of the NY-area pre-1960, and Hollywood, especially back then, had a heavy concentration of Outer Borough-derived Jews. So I guess their cartoon characters are inspired by their upbringing?

Also, you see a lot of Outer Borough references that would be unlikely today. My son likes old Casper cartoons, and everyone is taking the subway or elevated trains, everyone talks Brooklynese, there are references to (then very Jewish) Flatbush, etc. It seems kinda alien to even typical mid-century Americana.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's pretty obvious that a lot of the mid-century cartoons are speaking exaggerated Brooklynese. I mean, Bugs and his buddies, especially.

Most of the animation houses were out of the NY-area pre-1960, and Hollywood, especially back then, had a heavy concentration of Outer Borough-derived Jews. So I guess their cartoon characters are inspired by their upbringing?

Also, you see a lot of Outer Borough references that would be unlikely today. My son likes old Casper cartoons, and everyone is taking the subway or elevated trains, everyone talks Brooklynese, there are references to (then very Jewish) Flatbush, etc. It seems kinda alien to even typical mid-century Americana.

I sort of suspected a NY or even Jewish influenced NY accent in a lot of those characters, but narrowing it down to "Brooklynese" wasn't so obvious to me.

[deja vu]

Only because it was mentioned on here before, I thought I'd shift the focus (for at least one post) to share some update photos I found for the Mark W. Barker. A reminder that this is the first Great Lakes bulk carrier built on the Great Lakes in almost 4 decades. It is being constructed by The Interlake Steamship Company in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. A recent milestone was achieved when the four-deck shell of the superstructure was set in place.


















Source: LinkedIn | The Interlake Steamship Company

[Centropolis]

we could use more heavy american construction and manufacturing. thank you

[Steely Dan]

Thanks for those awesome pics of the new U/C freighter!

But just a minor correction here:

Originally Posted by deja vu

It is being constructed by The Interlake Steamship Company in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin.

The new freighter is being built for the Interlake fleet, but it is being built by Bay Shipbuilding Company (now owned by Italian conglomerate Fincantieri) in Sturgeon Bay.


In any event, it is so freaking cool to see large scale shipbuilding return to the great lakes after so many decades. Let's hope this new freighter is the first of a whole new fleet of freighters built on the great lakes for the great lakes.

[Docere]

Interesting to note that Toronto and Rochester were incorporated as cities less than two months apart from each other.

Toronto: March 6, 1834

Rochester: April 28, 1834

[Steely Dan]

some other great lakes city incorporations:

Detroit:
Incorporated as a city - 1815


Buffalo:
Incorporated as a city - 1832


Cleveland:
Incorporated as a city - March 6, 1836


Toledo:
Incorporated as a city - 1836


Chicago:
Incorporated as a city- March 4, 1837


Milwaukee:
Incorporated as a city - January 31, 1846


Hamilton:
Incorporated as a city - June 9, 1846


So, lots of 1830s city incorporations.

[Docere]

Toronto is exactly two years older than Cleveland!

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Docere

Toronto is exactly two years older than Cleveland!

Older than that, though, if you count the Town of York.

[pj3000]

Incorporation dates are kinda just political technicalities though (which vary by place). Don’t really reflect a city’s true age.