Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 30

dleung · #**581** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 3:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, only from the land of extreme linguistic insecurity. Talk about ridiculous regulation. Dust off those Roch Voisine cassettes!

On hold or in an elevator? The music you're hearing should be made in Quebec: minister
90% of the songs with lyrics used in this new initiative, which only applies to government establishments, must be in French.
Author of the article: La Presse Canadienne
Publishing date: June 21, 2021
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-n...ust-be-made-in-quebec-minister-announces

This is great, though probably less cringey if it didn't need to be legislated...

...but where's Liojack with "wokeness gone too far!" / "Choose based on merit, not group identity!" / "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian!" / "I don't see colour" / "gasp, reverse discrimination!"

Oh wait, those arguments don't apply when the affirmative action favors their in-group

begratto · #**582** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 6:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Why are you all upset about that ? How does that affect you anyway ? It's completely legitimate for the Quebec government to ask its own agencies to play home-grown music (and pay rights to Quebec artists), instead of playing music from American musak companies. I don't understand the problem... it's a great idea.

I totally agree with Martin on this. It's a great idea, and a great way to promote and fund Quebec artists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

This is great, though probably less cringey if it didn't need to be legislated...

...but where's Liojack with "wokeness gone too far!" / "Choose based on merit, not group identity!" / "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian!" / "I don't see colour" / "gasp, reverse discrimination!"

Oh wait, those arguments don't apply when the affirmative action favors their in-group

Well, any artist based in Quebec is included, whether they sing in French, English, Aticamek or Inuktituk. I don't get your point. It doesn't have anything to do with colour or ethnicity.

lio45 · #**583** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 6:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto

Well, any artist based in Quebec is included, whether they sing in French, English, Aticamek or Inuktituk. I don't get your point. It doesn't have anything to do with colour or ethnicity.

He's just trolling, as usual. That's why you don't get his point. There's no point except trolling.

You're correct in pointing out this type of restriction is indeed a color-blind measure. It's a "buy local" thing. Unpalatably protectionist, I guess, if you want to find a reason to attack it.

It's similar to, say, Michigan State Police having instructions from the govt in Lansing to only use Michigan-built patrol cars. It's not racist, the people building those cars are sometimes black; in fact we don't care what color the workers are as long as they're from the right state. It's the definition of color-blind.

OldDartmouthMark · #**584** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 6:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto

I totally agree with Martin on this. It's a great idea, and a great way to promote and fund Quebec artists.

Well, any artist based in Quebec is included, whether they sing in French, English, Aticamek or Inuktituk. I don't get your point. It doesn't have anything to do with colour or ethnicity.

I don't see anything wrong with it, if it works to promote and fund Quebec artists (though, with elevator music I suspect it might be difficult to detect which artists you want to support).

Many many Canadian artists have stated that they wouldn't have had successful music careers if CanCon hadn't been created in the 1970s. Before that, pretty much the only route to success was for the artist to displace themselves to the US.

JHikka · #**585** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto

Well, any artist based in Quebec is included, whether they sing in French, English, Aticamek or Inuktituk. I don't get your point. It doesn't have anything to do with colour or ethnicity.

I would be very surprised if I got into an elevator in a Quebec government building and heard music in any language that wasn't French under this new policy. The CAQ government has been emphasizing French and I imagine they'll emphasize it for this QuebecCon, too.

dleung · #**586** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 7:10 PM**

The article explicitly mentions a 90% quota for French lyrics, with English, Indigenous, etc making up the remaining 10%. So not exactly "buy local" or "colour blind", and more like universities and employers having admission/hiring quotas for various identity groups, which Lio has been very much vocally against lol

So I can support this without being hypocritical while he cannot

Acajack · #**587** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

I would be very surprised if I got into an elevator in a Quebec government building and heard music in any language that wasn't French under this new policy. The CAQ government has been emphasizing French and I imagine they'll emphasize it for this QuebecCon, too.

There is a 1 in 10 chance that any random song you will hear won't be in French.

Acajack · #**588** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 7:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

The article explicitly mentions a 90% quota for French lyrics, with English, Indigenous, etc making up the remaining 10%. So not exactly "buy local" or "colour blind", and more like universities and employers having admission/hiring quotas for various identity groups, which Lio has been very much vocally against lol

So I can support this without being hypocritical while he cannot

Since when do you care about "colour-blindness" and "neutrality"?

You clearly attribute good guy and bad guy status simply based on skin colour, ethnicity, language, etc.

Martin Mtl · #**589** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is a 1 in 10 chance that any random song you will hear won't be in French.

Home-grown music in Quebec must be close to 90% French anyway, if and when there are lyrics... They may very well play a lot of just instrumental pieces, hopefully better than the usual musak.

Martin Mtl · #**590** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

The article explicitly mentions a 90% quota for French lyrics, with English, Indigenous, etc making up the remaining 10%. So not exactly "buy local" or "colour blind", and more like universities and employers having admission/hiring quotas for various identity groups, which Lio has been very much vocally against lol

So I can support this without being hypocritical while he cannot

Why the "color blind" reference ?

Is it because you assume that there is no french music in Quebec made by "colour" artists ?

Acajack · #**591** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 8:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Why the "color blind" reference ?

Is it because you assume that there is no french music in Quebec made by "colour" artists ?

Don't confuse his prejudices.

dleung · #**592** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Why the "color blind" reference ?

Is it because you assume that there is no french music in Quebec made by "colour" artists ?

Steve Bannon thinks only property owners should have the right to vote. Totally colour-blind! Nothing stopping non-whites from owning property either!

Anyway this is not about colour, but about certain forumers' hypocrisy on favoring group-identity over merit when it comes to their in-group, while pushing the opposite with every other identity group

Acajack · #**593** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 8:59 PM**

dleung is all upset at the representation of non-francophone (or is it non-French Canadian? he gets confused) artists in this Quebec measure, because he's got lots of experience fighting for equality, taking to the streets when all of those Great Canadian Books, Great Canadian Albums, Great Canadian TV Shows, Great Canadian Songs lists get published without a single francophone entry!

CivicBlues · #**594** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 9:20 PM**

Aaaand this thread is going to be locked in 3....2...1...

rousseau · #**595** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

Steve Bannon thinks only property owners should have the right to vote. Totally colour-blind! Nothing stopping non-whites from owning property either!

Anyway this is not about colour, but about certain forumers' hypocrisy on favoring group-identity over merit when it comes to their in-group, while pushing the opposite with every other identity group

Look, we're not supposed to talk about politics anymore because of how touchy the young'uns are, but you're confused: The Quebecois group identity aligns with the people within the subnational entity of the province of Quebec and with those who retain their sense of Quebecois heritage wherever they are. It was surely different in the past, but these days it's clearly not race-based in spirit or practice (though perhaps in the latter they may fall short at times, as do we all).

Your identitarianist wokeism draws the ingroup/outgroup boundaries around race. It's you guys who are "racializing" people, and objecting to that doesn't mean objecting to certain ingroup identities on a national level like in Quebec. Or, you know, closing borders of the country during a pandemic to protect the ingroup from potential infection from the outgroup.

My orientation is to be as minimally top-down as possible, but even I don't see it as a big deal for government offices in Quebec to discriminate in favour of Quebecois musical artists. I don't think that's anywhere near the same as the Cancon restrictions for radio that we used to have (do we still have those?).

dleung · #**596** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 9:34 PM**

My first words on this was "this is great", which is consistent with my support for representation by under-represented groups

Whereas you and Lio are on record absolutely hating that shit (at least when it comes to all those other groups you aren't part of). Remember getting your (probably shared) panties in a twist over a fluff article about an Asian girl trying to get more Asians into competitive chess? "What happened to merit!? She can play with an inferior chess player if she wants diversity!"

Every time racial discrimination is a topic, one of you invariably go "and the Francophones are an oppressed minority too!" So it's a bit hypocritical to say "racial quotas are not ok, but Francophone quotas are ok"

rousseau · #**597** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

Remember getting your (probably shared) panties in a twist over a fluff article about an Asian girl trying to get more Asians into competitive chess? "What happened to merit!? She can play with an inferior chess player if she wants diversity!"

Uh, that's not at all what I said. Nothing to do with "merit." I said that she was a racist for being unhappy at how many white people like to play chess. If you want to play chess, play chess, fer crissakes.

And c'mon, no white person could ever have gotten away with that. "I sure wish I could see more white faces on my street." "I sure wish there weren't so many black guys playing basketball every time I come to the court." Yeah, no, nobody's okay with that. But a nonwhite person gets a pass when they complain about white people?

That's fucked up. We older curmudgeons kept on pointing out how obviously, unbelievably fucked up that is in those other threads. Our refusal to nod in unison at the naked emperor sent lots of people into fireworks of hysterics. Which can happen with politics, I guess.

rousseau · #**598** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 10:31 PM**

By the way, I'll stop here before the usual crew come in to screech about how I drag everything into the cesspit of identity politics. Erm, that is unless dleung and his apparatchiks willfully misrepresent something I said again. You gotta be able to set the record straight for yourself.

Dengler Avenue · #**599** Posted **Jun 22, 2021, 10:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Aaaand this thread is going to be locked in 3....2...1...

I've been counting down for a while now...

Hali87 · #**600** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Home-grown music in Quebec must be close to 90% French anyway, if and when there are lyrics... They may very well play a lot of just instrumental pieces, hopefully better than the usual musak.

These are basically my thoughts as well (based on the wording I wouldn't be surprised if >50% of the music ends up being instrumental with no lyrics). It's also pretty common for nominally Anglo Quebec-based artists to have at least a handful of songs with French lyrics. I guess in this case you could say there's some discrimination based on the content of the art, but that's not really the same as discrimination based on the identity of the artist.

In practice there's also just way more opportunities of this nature already for English-only musicians than French-only ones. This seems totally reasonable to me so far, and I'm Anglo and work in the music industry