Rapid Transit

[Innsertnamehere]

Merulla flipping is good news for the projects chances. Hopefully we don’t see too many flip the other way.

My councillor (Pearson) seems supportive but doesn’t want to transfer from the bus.

Has she ever ridden transit in Toronto? It’s not a big deal.

Hopefully the city opts for 4 minute frequencies when this opens too, which would mean the wait really wouldn’t be long for a transfer.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Hopefully the city opts for 4 minute frequencies when this opens too, which would mean the wait really wouldn’t be long for a transfer.

As someone who is a daily #10 B-Line 55A rider who doesn't currently need to transfer to get to my job near Arvin/Fruitland Rd and back a 4 min LRT transfer frequency at Eastgate would make me very happy!!! Even a 6min window would be ok but I'd not want to go longer than that.

As for the vote how will it work and what is required? Is it a 51% needed to pass or is it a higher threshold? How many council votes are exactly needed for this to be a yes for LRT and where do we believe the current yes & no votes would come from? We now know Murella is on board does anyone have the most up to date concrete and possible how they will vote list?

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Big flip with Merulla. Didn't expect that.

I had to tune out, what did he say? Or just general turnaround?

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by jonny24

I had to tune out, what did he say? Or just general turnaround?

He said that he fully supports the project now that funding is confirmed, and will vote in favour.

[TheHonestMaple]

Stoney Creek councillors united against taking LRT cash

[Beedok]

But Rail’s big benefit is always that it’s cheaper to run per passenger, no? That was one of the big arguments Ottawa had for switching from BRT to LRT?

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

Brad Clark's comment "it's grossly expensive and I don't care who's paying for it" !!!!! That's like a child saying "this food is delicious but I hate it so I'm not eating it" !! What a f@cking baby

[King&James]

When does Silly Council have to vote on this - thought it was June. Anyone have the collective count of the Ya's and Na's ? With no other cash coming Hamilton's way, what is the infrastructure cost that this project pays for . Why are we not hearing about those dollars as offset versus just what we will have on buses and or collect from increased ridership. Perhaps the SC councilors want to raise their hands and say they are in favour of having their wards pay for the infrastructure costs that the city will be forced to undergo if no LRT cash is taken.

[Beedok]

Yeah, looking at the releases by Metrolinx, it would cost roughly twice as much to run equivalent BRT. The city would not just have to pay for those running costs, but also building the BRT system. It would be way more expensive for the city.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I agree completely... they should be told what infustructure needs to be repaired in this part of the city and how much the taxpayers of the entire city will need to pay in order for those repairs to be done.... it's unavoidable

[ScreamingViking]

Fools.

They have totally closed minds now, and likely will not listen to ANY advice or estimates they'll be provided in the coming weeks.

Clark in particular should know better. He was a minister of transportation for f#ck sakes... not that that would impart special knowledge about networks and multi-modal planning, but he should at least be well aware that demand for capacity is one of the key drivers of transportation infrastructure need. And the demand on this corridor is there, while the capacity is currently lacking.

I think they're playing political games just because they think they can: as long as there are just enough votes among the other councillors to win city approval, they feel they can be obstinate and stick to their misinformed opinions. But it's a dangerous game, because there's a good chance others will flip-flop at the last minute (for both for and against).

If this council passes on the money, it will be decades before anything else of this magnitude is offered to the city.

[TheHonestMaple]

Do they not understand that a good portion of this money is going towards infrastructure upgrades below grade level? Things that the city will have to pay to upgrade at some point in the future without the LRT anyway? A huge cost.

The incompetence of this city council is staggering.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Fools.

They have totally closed minds now, and likely will not listen to ANY advice or estimates they'll be provided in the coming weeks.

Clark in particular should know better. He was a minister of transportation for f#ck sakes... not that that would impart special knowledge about networks and multi-modal planning, but he should at least be well aware that demand for capacity is one of the key drivers of transportation infrastructure need. And the demand on this corridor is there, while the capacity is currently lacking.

I think they're playing political games just because they think they can: as long as there are just enough votes among the other councillors to win city approval, they feel they can be obstinate and stick to their misinformed opinions. But it's a dangerous game, because there's a good chance others will flip-flop at the last minute (for both for and against).

If this council passes on the money, it will be decades before anything else of this magnitude is offered to the city.

I think Clark is. I know some background about his political aspirations, so I know for a fact this is political. He's also selfish as fuck, and again, I know this personally. Pearson, I have no idea, she's usually not this stupid, so no clue, and she doesn't have any aspirations politically, and I think Chad is just joining in because he's a moron Blockbuster supervisor.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I think Clark is. I know some background about his political aspirations, so I know for a fact this is political. He's also selfish as fuck, and again, I know this personally. Pearson, I have no idea, she's usually not this stupid, so no clue, and she doesn't have any aspirations politically, and I think Chad is just joining in because he's a moron Blockbuster supervisor.

There's an "I know best" entitlement attitude among many on council. Minds made up before they have the info upon which to base an informed opinion. I think part of that comes from the lack of term limits... it's as if some of them think they have seen everything, so they know everything.

I don't know the full backgrounds of many of the councillors, but Collins in particular seems to have little/no practical experience from the working world. He jumped into politics quite young (in his mid-20s) and came from a political family: his mom was on city council in the 1980s and was later a Liberal MPP.

While having private sector work experience is no guarantee of being a better decision maker, I think it's still important and helps make for much rounder perspectives, especially on economic issues.

[Markus83]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

I agree completely... they should be told what infustructure needs to be repaired in this part of the city and how much the taxpayers of the entire city will need to pay in order for those repairs to be done.... it's unavoidable

Absolutely!!! HBinToronto. I was totally just thinking this the other day, like exactly that, to show people opposed to this what it means down to the very last cent spent on improving Hamilton's in dire need of repair infrastructure. An article in the spec last week talked about how many schools have lead in their drinking water, the highest per capita of all Ontario, something Hamilton has not attempted to remedy at all over the past two years since it was first reported at these levels. Now, this is something that could help that along to rid a lot of the old lead piping along these stretches of the LRT route. It's mind boggling that we even need to think of all the beneficial aspects this project brings about besides it being a great mode of public transportation in all that that implies, and still get backlash. These people in mho are drones. Oye, I need an aspirin and a stiff drink on the rocks.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Theres going to be a l o t of idiocy when this is brought up at the GIC meeting on Wednesday. Though, I think saner minds will prevail... I hope.

Interestingly, this ordeal has ignited the idea of de-amalgamation, which is... good. If nothing else, I wouldn't confuse as many people by still saying we live in Wentworth County.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

Interestingly, this ordeal has ignited the idea of de-amalgamation, which is... good. If nothing else, I wouldn't confuse as many people by still saying we live in Wentworth County.

Can't say I'd like to see the egg unscrambled, nor do I think it would be easy.

What would be useful are "local" councils or committees made up of regular citizens, to discuss issues with the city councillors of their ward(s) who could then bring a fuller perspective to the city-wide table. I don't know if that would exacerbate the urban/suburban divide or help make the local issues more balanced, but it may get more people interested and involved (over and above those who already do speak out, or regularly write their councillor or call her/his office).

I think that idea may have originally been floated as part of amalgamation, to help maintain local politics and dialogue within the former municipalities of H-W, but it was never followed through.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Yeah, looking at the releases by Metrolinx, it would cost roughly twice as much to run equivalent BRT. The city would not just have to pay for those running costs, but also building the BRT system. It would be way more expensive for the city.

Agreed. Spend just as long rebuilding the road and addressing the sub-grade infrastructure, but on the City's dime. Then have to replace twice as many B-Line buses as they do now when vehicles age out, again on the City's dime. The dissenters should be obligated to spell out how they plan to implement BRT, itemize the cost of overdue infrastructure work pegged to LRT, and also to repair the reputational damage inflicted by lobbying hard for a preferred solution, expending untold human work years and millions on it, only to jog on at the last minute. It would make anyone extremely leery of investing time, let alone dollars, in a community whose own government does not see merit in doing so.

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Can't say I'd like to see the egg unscrambled, nor do I think it would be easy.

What would be useful are "local" councils or committees made up of regular citizens, to discuss issues with the city councillors of their ward(s) who could then bring a fuller perspective to the city-wide table. I don't know if that would exacerbate the urban/suburban divide or help make the local issues more balanced, but it may get more people interested and involved (over and above those who already do speak out, or regularly write their councillor or call her/his office).

I think that idea may have originally been floated as part of amalgamation, to help maintain local politics and dialogue within the former municipalities of H-W, but it was never followed through.

FWIW, it was messy and petulant pre-amalgamation as well. Via Free Flamborough:

May 28, 1973:
Province offered Hamilton and Wentworth County the choice of two systems - 1 tier and 2 tier.

July 30, 1973:
Legislation providing for regional government (Bill 155) passed

January 7, 1974:
Inaugural meeting of Regional Council with Ann Jones as appointed Chairwoman.

September 20, 1977:
Hamilton-Wentworth Regional Government Review. A three man commission comprising Henry Stewart (Chairman), Dr. James Johnson, and Harold Dixon was formed to examine every aspect of regional government, consider modifications in the two-tier system, possible duplication of costs and even a return to a one-tier system.

May 10, 1978:
The report was released from the Stewart Commission. It recommended that a new city of Wentworth replace the city of Hamilton and the surrounding communities in a one-tier government with 27 aldermen, each representing one ward. June 16, 1978: the recommendations were shelved by the provincial government.

January 19, 1995:
Terry Cooke announced a Constituent Assembly consisting of a 15 member volunteer group chaired by Chester Waxman and Don Granger (ex-mayor of Flamborough and now sitting on the OMB) with a mandate to come up with recommendations for restructuring municipal government. The final report was released on April 3, 1996 recommending replacement of the 7 area councils with a single body of not more than 30 members.

July 5, 1996:
Hamilton-Wentworth Regional Council voted down the Constituent Assembly recommendations by a vote of 20-7.

October 2, 1996:
Hamilton-Wentworth Regional Council voted to end regional government by a vote of 17-10.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I can't even believe that this is allowed to be debated again... the debates are wasting taxpayers dollars and should be over ruled because it was already approved

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

FWIW, it was messy and petulant pre-amalgamation as well.

I recall that well. I had a class at Mac in the early 1990s (I was in urban geography) where we examined the issue and debated the merits of regional vs. local governments. Followed it all closely before that too, reading the paper every day from about grade 8 onward.

I don't think many of the de-amalgamation proponents know just how much power the regional government had, how it managed broader transportation and land use planning for the entirety of Hamilton-Wentworth (with local plans and zoning for the cities and towns making up the region), and how much of the property tax bill went toward the region vs. the lower tier municipalities. You'd still need an "upper level" of planning for regional issues within the current city boundaries too... transit, arterial roads, policing etc. would likely remain "regional" in scope to a large degree, and have to be funded somehow by everyone.

The same debate over LRT would be happening today if H-W was still as it was. And you'd probably still hear a loud din from the former suburban towns about transit within the old City of Hamilton boundaries had the region been abolished in favour of independent municipalities.