The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 793

J.OT13 · #**15841** Posted **Jun 10, 2021, 12:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

Good to see. The lack of any shops at Ottawa’s transit stations can make many of them feel rather hostile at night. Especially the more isolated ones. As a woman who frequently has to travel home from work late at night, I’d appreciate if there was a more permanent human presence at stations.

Unfortunately, the hours of operation are limited, so the kiosks won't be adding anything in terms of eyes on the stations or security evening and nights.

The Rideau location is not yet listed on their site, but Blair's hours are 6am-6pm on weekdays, 8am-5pm on Saturday and closed on Sunday. I would imagine Rideau will have the same hours.

Let's hope that hours are extended post-pandemic.

esquire · #**15842** Posted **Jun 10, 2021, 12:40 PM**

It's hard to imagine a coffee shop in a transit station being open much past the evening rush hour... I would think the vast majority of their sales would be in the morning?

Either way, it's a great amenity. I'm impressed by everything I've seen of Ottawa's transit stations. It sort of hearkens back to the glory days of Canadian infrastructure in the 60s and 70s when municipalities were really thinking big.

J.OT13 · #**15843** Posted **Jun 10, 2021, 1:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

It's hard to imagine a coffee shop in a transit station being open much past the evening rush hour... I would think the vast majority of their sales would be in the morning?

Either way, it's a great amenity. I'm impressed by everything I've seen of Ottawa's transit stations. It sort of hearkens back to the glory days of Canadian infrastructure in the 60s and 70s when municipalities were really thinking big.

I'd be interested to know what type of hours retailers and food vendors were operating under in other Canadian cities with rapid transit pre-pandemic.

There are certain stations, at least in Ottawa, where I could see sales being limited to near exclusively mornings, as you've alluded to. Stage 2's Trim that pretty much only serves a suburban park-and-ride is one of them. Tunney's at the moment, serving a Federal office campus and as the transfer station for west end riders, is another such situation. However, urban stations like Rideau, which gets a steady flow of volume all day, everyday, even at night (serving entertainment districts like the ByWard Market and Elgin) could support longer hours. Major semi-urban transfers like Hurdman, Blair, Lincoln Fields are somewhere in between.

That said, I don't know who controls the hours, the retailer or the transit agency. Could you get different hours for different stations?

MalcolmTucker · #**15844** Posted **Jun 10, 2021, 1:45 PM**

It is pretty typical to have opening hour provisions in leases.

Requiring shops to be open longer hours in transit stations depresses rent. Since commercial units in transit stations can be cost flow negative anyways, it is a battle. At lease renewal it is really easy to shutter the CRUs as a shortsighted cost saving measure.

esquire · #**15845** Posted **Jun 10, 2021, 2:23 PM**

My impression with transit station kiosks, at least outside of downtown Toronto and Montreal, were always a bit of a struggle in Canada. I recall Edmonton had a tough time getting some of the expansive CRU spaces in their downtown stations leased out, although I'm not sure what they're like these days.

As you point out J.OT13, some stations are better suited to this sort of thing than others. Also, certain operators may be better suited to this sort of thing than others. Like it or not, the odds of a chain like Tims or Starbucks generating afternoon/evening business is probably going to be higher than an independent.

To some extent, I think a transit system has to take what it can get given the circumstances. In my view it's much better to have a unit that is open from, say, 6:30-11:30 than having nothing at all because a cafe operator can't live up to contractual demands to remain open from 6:30-18:30 or whatever.

Mr. Blue · #**15846** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 2:30 AM**

A strange proposal out of Quebec City. Introducing the VALSE system. An all-underground 13.5 km line serving the city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWo0Pb7Isa0&t=39s

Article: https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021/06/...omatique-leger-sous-terrain-electrique-1

Truenorth00 · #**15847** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 3:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

A strange proposal out of Quebec City. Introducing the VALSE system. An all-underground 13.5 km line serving the city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWo0Pb7Isa0&t=39s

Article: https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021/06/...omatique-leger-sous-terrain-electrique-1

First they argue that a city doesn't have the population to justify xyz transit project. Then they immediately jump to the most expensive transit solution out there (tunneling).

If Quebec City elects this guy, they'll get the third act where nothing gets built and they spend a decade just talking about how great their train will be.

FrAnKs · #**15848** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 2:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

First they argue that a city doesn't have the population to justify xyz transit project. Then they immediately jump to the most expensive transit solution out there (tunneling).

If Quebec City elects this guy, they'll get the third act where nothing gets built and they spend a decade just talking about how great their train will be.

Indeed. This guy is nothing but a right-wing populist. It's interesting to point out that at the last municipal election in 2017, this guy pretended that our bus system was enough and investing in a structuring transit system was a waste of money.
This proposal is a hoax to divert the attention on him & his party...

Truenorth00 · #**15849** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Indeed. This guy is nothing but a right-wing populist. It's interesting to point out that at the last municipal election in 2017, this guy pretended that our bus system was enough and investing in a structuring transit system was a waste of money.
This proposal is a hoax to divert the attention on him & his party...

I remember discussion like this in Ottawa in the 2000s where there were politicians arguing that Ottawa didn't need to invest in LRT because it wasn't a big city (over 900k at the point) and buses were working just fine (bursting at the seams).

Right leaning municipal and provincial politicians seem to do this all the time in Canada. Argue the investment is unnecessary and stall for as long as they can. Then try and sell some insanely expensive solution (which they know they won't have to build on their watch).

The Fords did this in Toronto, arguing that the private sector would build subways for cheap. Then they got power, realized it wasn't easy, and spent a decade building nothing. Scarborough isn't getting a subway now, till 2030. I was in high school in the mid 90s when they were talking about extending the RT or replacing it with subway then. Ridiculous. I hope Quebec City doesn't fall for the same trap.

esquire · #**15850** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 3:14 PM**

^ This happened in Winnipeg with sketchy Sam Katz proposing LRT instead of BRT... he used that mode debate tactic to delay meaningful BRT construction by several years.

Truenorth00 · #**15851** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 3:24 PM**

In Toronto, what was interesting was that they used the mode and opposition to tax increases to delay. The province effectively gave Rob Ford a choice. A fully paid SRT extension. Or a subway where Toronto pays the difference. They didn't want to raise taxes to pay the difference.

I don't think the subway choice was necessarily all that bad. It's a moderate ridership extension, with higher ridership than say the extension into Vaughan. It just became such a cluster fuck because they wanted the subway and refused to fund it, while also refusing to let anything else get built.

FrAnKs · #**15852** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 3:38 PM**

^ Thats sad stories guys...I hope we will not fall in the same trap indeed!
I am not worried about our Tramway proposal itself ; I think it's a good project that fits well for Québec City.
I am rather worried because (as of now) there is 4 parties at the starting blocks for next november's municipal election. The thing is...3 of them are supporting the Tramway and 1 of them doesn't. I am afraid that the Pro-Tramway votes will split in 3 and the winner will be Qc21, the anti-tramway, right wing party and his transit system hoax, if all anti-tramway votes are going for him. Last poll showed a 55% support for the Tramway project versus 40% that were against.

Guys, we CAN'T miss this unique opportunity to finally create a structuring transit system in our beautiful city...

FrAnKs · #**15853** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

politicians arguing that Ottawa didn't need to invest in LRT because it wasn't a big city (over 900k at the point) and buses were working just fine

LOL. There are cities in France with 250k with Tramway lines already!

Truenorth00 · #**15854** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

LOL. There are cities in France with 250k with Tramway lines already!

Waterloo has less than 150k and they have a tramway. Admittedly, KWC is over half a million as a whole.

FrAnKs · #**15855** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 4:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Waterloo has less than 150k and they have a tramway. Admittedly, KWC is over half a million as a whole.

I have tried the one in Montpellier, France and absolutely loved it! It was quiet, modern and efficient.

How is Waterloo's Tramway going? In the sense, is it popular? It is reliable so far? What do people think about it?

Dengler Avenue · #**15856** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I have tried the one in Montpellier, France and absolutely loved it! It was quiet, modern and efficient.

How is Waterloo's Tramway going? In the sense, is it popular? It is reliable so far?

I took it before, and I thought it was okay.

FrAnKs · #**15857** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I took it before, and I thought it was okay.

Just okay? I've thought it was Fantastic! But I have to admit that it was the first time I've ever tried such a thing, so there was a ''surprise effect''

Mr. Blue · #**15858** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 4:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Indeed. This guy is nothing but a right-wing populist. It's interesting to point out that at the last municipal election in 2017, this guy pretended that our bus system was enough and investing in a structuring transit system was a waste of money.
This proposal is a hoax to divert the attention on him & his party...

Basically Rob Ford but in Quebec City. Better not elect this guy or else.

FrAnKs · #**15859** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

Basically Rob Ford but in Quebec City. Better not elect this guy or else.

What did happen with Rob Ford again? so we're all warned

hipster duck · #**15860** Posted **Jun 11, 2021, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I have tried the one in Montpellier, France and absolutely loved it! It was quiet, modern and efficient.

How is Waterloo's Tramway going? In the sense, is it popular? It is reliable so far? What do people think about it?

It’s okay. The frequency is bad (every 15 minutes) and it can be ridiculously slow in places (I think it travels at 5 km/h if it turns through an intersection). The important thing is they have the infrastructure built. If they ever want to invest in more vehicles to improve frequencies or increase speeds to something reasonable, that’s relatively easy.

I’m the kind of guy who’d prefer to ride a bus that comes every 5 minutes rather than a tramway that comes every 15, but a lot of people will not ride the bus at all, and few developers of condos would advertise that their project is on a frequent bus line.