General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

I'm cautiously optimistic that the canals will be the next attraction that developers build around more regularly.

'Cookie Cutter' Or 'Right Type'? Phoenix Council Approves Grand Canal Project
By Christina Estes
Published: Thursday, June 3, 2021 - 8:32am
Updated: Thursday, June 3, 2021 - 8:33am


For months, residents of a historic Phoenix neighborhood have been fighting an out-of-state developer over an apartment project. On Wednesday, the City Council voted on the proposal along the Grand Canal in the central city.

Phoenix calls it the Grand Canalscape, a 12-mile system for people to safely walk, run and bike. It’s a source of pride for city leaders and neighbors like Ken Waters who called the proposed 218-unit apartment complex the anti-prototype for the area.

“You're setting the model, a cookie cutter precedent for the rest of Canalscape,” he said. “In its present form, it’s a traffic bomb. Twelve hundred cars per day on the inside of the neighborhood, no arterial streets, they’re all trapped.”

Waters lives in Pierson Place, a neighborhood on the National Register of Historic Places. The boundaries are generally the Grand Canal to Camelback Road and Central to 7th avenues.

Texas-based Trinsic Residential wants to build on 3-acres on the southeast corner of 3rd Avenue and Coolidge Street. Jason Morris, the developer’s representative, said they already worked to appease residents by reducing density and height on the four-story buildings, removing some proposed balconies to ensure privacy for homeowners and creating publicly accessible green space along the canal.

“This case is an exceptional example of the right type of housing at the right location within the right portion of the city,” he said.

Local business owners who spoke in support of the project said more residents would boost their sales. Several residents said they support development but not this specific project.

Councilwoman Laura Pastor, who represents the district, proposed an extra 20 inches of space between the curb and building facade along Coolidge Street and 3rd Avenue so there would be a minimum of 21 feet, 8 inches. She also instructed the developer to work with residents over street parking concerns. The full council agreed and approved the zoning request.

I watched the livestream of the council meeting. It was nice to hear from so many locally owned business in the neighborhood that see the value of having new buildings full of potential customers. I still remember several years ago when the former co-owner of Songbird Coffee was actually arguing against residential development along Roosevelt Row.

I'm glad the council voted for the project, but I'm disappointed in some of the concessions the developer made to win approval. I'm never a fan of setbacks, but the added parking is worst of all. Amazingly, the opponents of the project complained about the prospect of traffic without realizing that more parking generally means more driving.

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

I'm cautiously optimistic that the canals will be the next attraction that developers build around more regularly.

'Cookie Cutter' Or 'Right Type'? Phoenix Council Approves Grand Canal Project
By Christina Estes
Published: Thursday, June 3, 2021 - 8:32am
Updated: Thursday, June 3, 2021 - 8:33am


For months, residents of a historic Phoenix neighborhood have been fighting an out-of-state developer over an apartment project. On Wednesday, the City Council voted on the proposal along the Grand Canal in the central city.

Phoenix calls it the Grand Canalscape, a 12-mile system for people to safely walk, run and bike. It’s a source of pride for city leaders and neighbors like Ken Waters who called the proposed 218-unit apartment complex the anti-prototype for the area.

“You're setting the model, a cookie cutter precedent for the rest of Canalscape,” he said. “In its present form, it’s a traffic bomb. Twelve hundred cars per day on the inside of the neighborhood, no arterial streets, they’re all trapped.”

Waters lives in Pierson Place, a neighborhood on the National Register of Historic Places. The boundaries are generally the Grand Canal to Camelback Road and Central to 7th avenues.

Texas-based Trinsic Residential wants to build on 3-acres on the southeast corner of 3rd Avenue and Coolidge Street. Jason Morris, the developer’s representative, said they already worked to appease residents by reducing density and height on the four-story buildings, removing some proposed balconies to ensure privacy for homeowners and creating publicly accessible green space along the canal.

“This case is an exceptional example of the right type of housing at the right location within the right portion of the city,” he said.

Local business owners who spoke in support of the project said more residents would boost their sales. Several residents said they support development but not this specific project.

Councilwoman Laura Pastor, who represents the district, proposed an extra 20 inches of space between the curb and building facade along Coolidge Street and 3rd Avenue so there would be a minimum of 21 feet, 8 inches. She also instructed the developer to work with residents over street parking concerns. The full council agreed and approved the zoning request.

ugh, NIMBY's. Its a crappy commercial building.

[Mr.RE]

Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12

most GC don't have many of their own employees. they might have a project engineer, project managers, site supervisors, safety managers. But its the subcontractors doing all the work. If the owner can get a new GC on board. they just need to hire the first couple subs in to get the project rolling along.

We do commercial hvac work and have been hired while the building while the structure was still going up.

My main concern in all of this is if Katerra was truly skimming their numbers to win all of these deals and the owners were securing financing under those assumptions then any new GC that steps in will have to provide new pricing with Today's numbers and that sticker shock could very well pause or completely halt any new development out of the ground.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

My main concern in all of this is if Katerra was truly skimming their numbers to win all of these deals and the owners were securing financing under those assumptions then any new GC that steps in will have to provide new pricing with Today's numbers and that sticker shock could very well pause or completely halt any new development out of the ground.

Exactly. Also, katerra was trying to be a one stop shop. It's entirely possible all the materials costs they quoted were based on their own manufacturing. Could be a vast delta between their pricing and reality.

[CrestedSaguaro]

They are still continuing with the fencing at Palm Tower. Not sure if that really means anything. The company is not Katerra, so they just may be finishing the fencing regardless of the Katerra situation.

On a positive note, they are quickly adding the containers at Ida today. There were none yesterday and today there are 2 levels of containers up already.

[IndyAZ]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

The company is not Katerra, so they just may be finishing the fencing regardless of the Katerra situation.

I noticed there are crews still working on X Phoenix too including people installing the garage screening, so Katerra is gone, but some for the subs are still working. Maybe they had already received payment and just finishing their tasks.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by IndyAZ

I noticed there are crews still working on X Phoenix too including people installing the garage screening, so Katerra is gone, but some for the subs are still working. Maybe they had already received payment and just finishing their tasks.

Well that’s good. Anyone been by One Camelback to see if that’s still moving along?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Well that’s good. Anyone been by One Camelback to see if that’s still moving along?

I watch that building since I use the light rail station across the street for my commute. The pace is glacial, but work continues.

[Phxguy]

The Edith recently appealed for a time extension at the Formal City Council hearing on Wednesday. Not sure the results...but I heard there was some opposition to this.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

The Edith recently appealed for a time extension at the Formal City Council hearing on Wednesday. Not sure the results...but I heard there was some opposition to this.

I think it was for a 1-year extension and passed 7-2.

[Socalzonie]

A little more Katerra info.

https://azbex.com/katerra-dissolution-less-disruptive-than-thought/

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Socalzonie

A little more Katerra info.

https://azbex.com/katerra-dissolution-less-disruptive-than-thought/

So - sounds like Skye will happen once they find a new GC and then Palm Court is more up in the air.

Interestingly enough - it was hinted that people behind the firms Katerra bought in PHX (i.e. UEB) could wind up re-forming and taking on some of the business that was lined up.

So not quite all doom and gloom; sounds like PHX will come out of this better than other cities where work just flat out stopped.

[xymox]

Looks like we have crossed over the 5M mark in population for the metro:

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/maricopa-county-no-1-metro-phoenix-no-2-for-fastest-growth/

As of July 1, 2020, the U.S. Census Bureau estimated that the metro area population grew by an average of 291 people every day. Maricopa County saw its population climb by 86,820, more than any other U.S. county. The entire Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler metro area grew by an estimated 106,008 to 5.1 million people, the fastest pace of the top 10 metro areas.

Census Bureau population estimates differ from the 2020 Decennial Census in that the estimates are calculated projections for the period from July 1, 2019, through June 30, 2020.

We’re still a lock for 10th largest overall metro area.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Feels like forever the metro population hovered just under the five million mark

[ASUSunDevil]

https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/big-deals/1-61-acre-lot-in-roosevelt-row-sells-for-7-75m/

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/big-deals/1-61-acre-lot-in-roosevelt-row-sells-for-7-75m/

Good. I was doubtful there was ever going to be another phase of en Hance built. Hopefully that lot will get some good development going now.

[YourBuddy]

They specifically mention the site is well situated for two tower high rise development. Would be nice to see some previous developments from them.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Good. I was doubtful there was ever going to be another phase of en Hance built. Hopefully that lot will get some good development going now.

Maybe they sold that parcel to finally do something with the Los Olivos lot. Nah. Who am I kidding? They aren't going to build anything. I've told Gonzalo how upset I am over what he did to that parcel.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Maybe they sold that parcel to finally do something with the Los Olivos lot. Nah. Who am I kidding? They aren't going to build anything. I've told Gonzalo how upset I am over what he did to that parcel.

I didn't realize it was the same owner. Any chance they sell off the Los Olivos lot as well?

[biggus diggus]

I sure hope so. He's told me so many stories over the years that didn't come to fruition. First it was going to be condos because they know that market better. Then it was apartments but only if they could find a partnership because they have never built apartments. Then it was a mixed commercial product with restaurants and boutiques.

None of those things were ever more than just a discussion over zoom meetings, is my guess. Now they're just sitting on a lot where I used to be able to get my cars washed. They were the only "regular" car wash I could trust with some stuff. Of all the developers in this town that I'm mad at, he's probably top of my list.

Not for nothing, I've known for years they wouldn't build the second eNhance product. They couldn't sell what they'd already delivered and some buyers were even trying to get out within weeks of closing because the neighborhood was such a turnoff. Yeah, homebuyers need to take responsibility here but also it's a sign of just one problem after another for them.