The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Does the city of ottawa not have a good credit rating? What obstacle exists to them financing this themselves?
I fear it is a quasi snow job to obscure to people that this is a loan - look how far down in the text the 'investment' is first described as a loan.

Federal loans are cheaper. And more to the point the higher capital costs and lower operational costs make BEBs the perfect application of infrastructure leading to help smooth out the cash flow.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Does the city of ottawa not have a good credit rating? What obstacle exists to them financing this themselves?
I fear it is a quasi snow job to obscure to people that this is a loan - look how far down in the text the 'investment' is first described as a loan.

The City of Ottawa already has a heavy debt load from rail construction, with nearly 50% of the $7B+ on the City. If a loan from the infrastructure bank can help Ottawa evolve its transit infrastructure beyond just trains, that's great news.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The City of Ottawa already has a heavy debt load from rail construction, with nearly 50% of the $7B+ on the City. If a loan from the infrastructure bank can help Ottawa evolve its transit infrastructure beyond just trains, that's great news.

It is still a liability on their books, no matter who is lending them the money.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It is still a liability on their books, no matter who is lending them the money.

And?

The entire point of the infrastructure bank is lending like this. Projects which might command a financing premium from the private sector or drive supplier lock in or periodic exclusivity. Ottawa now gets to transition to electric buses without massively increasing cashflow to OC Transpo, as the decline in operating costs should help offset the loan payments. Ottawa also doesn't have to rely on OEM provided financing that might drive vendor lock in.

You seem annoyed that the CIB is funding the kinds of projects it was created to fund. Or is it the transition to electric buses that is bothering you? I don't get the concern or complaints here.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And?

The entire point of the infrastructure bank is lending like this. Projects which might command a financing premium from the private sector or drive supplier lock in or periodic exclusivity. Ottawa now gets to transition to electric buses without massively increasing cashflow to OC Transpo, as the decline in operating costs should help offset the loan payments. Ottawa also doesn't have to rely on OEM provided financing that might drive vendor lock in.

You seem annoyed that the CIB is funding the kinds of projects it was created to fund. Or is it the transition to electric buses that is bothering you?

No. I am just saying, it isn't extra special awesome money. Which pages back is what you (I assume it was you! I didn't go bother and look) were arguing for. Not loans. I was saying loans were just fine, and I am pretty sure you weren't happy about support being loans.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

No. I am just saying, it isn't extra special awesome money. Which pages back is what you were arguing for. Not loans.

I'd be happier if they were grants to Ottawa. It would substantially speed up the electrification process. But this is certainly better than nothing. It keeps the normal recapitalization process going while flattening the fiscal mountain that is an obstacle for electrification.

Also, the feds had $2.75B allocated for bus electrification in Budget 2021. I presume the final packages for these projects will involve some grants eventually too. This announcement is probably at least partially motivated by the desire to get the CIB more street cred before an impending election.

[Truenorth00]

Additional details in the city staff report:

http://ottwatch.ca/meetings/file/714910

The loan is only part of the package. They anticipate 35% of the funding to come from the grant program for bus electrification. And they anticipate the interest rate of the CIB loan to be 1%.

[J.OT13]

Nice shot of Bayview Station, transfer between Lines 1 and 2 (closed 2020-2022 for upgrades).


https://twitter.com/gregkolz/status/1402110487622520840

[Coldrsx]

Bout time, but I love the name/card.
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Arc Card unveiled; Smart Fare machines turned on for pilot testing

ARC card

June 8, 2021


Today, Edmonton Transit Service and regional transit partners mark an exciting step towards implementation of the smart fare electronic fare payment system, with the unveiling of Arc, the brand new “brand” look and feel for the upcoming smart way to pay for and ride transit.

“We’re excited to introduce the Arc brand and turn on the Arc card validators on our transit system. These are important program milestones as we continue to modernize transit service throughout the greater Edmonton region,” said Carrie Hotton-MacDonald, Branch Manager of Edmonton Transit Service. “Arc symbolizes forging a path between two points, much like how transit connects us to vital services, each other and our region.”

Once available, Arc cards can be used as electronic fare payment on participating transit agencies including Beaumont, Edmonton, Fort Saskatchewan, Leduc, St. Albert, Spruce Grove and Strathcona County. Customers also have the option to continue to pay with cash, paper passes and paper tickets.

Arc will be thoughtfully pilot tested and rolled out in phases to ensure a seamless onboarding experience for future customers. This summer, the first pilot testers from across the region will include a selection of Adult regular fare users, U-Pass users and transit staff.

The phased introduction of Arc this fall will be available for Adult regular fare users and post-secondary students who use U-Pass. Phase 2 will launch in 2022 and will be an option for a wider range of customer groups, including those who use the Ride Transit Program and seniors passes.

Customers will get access to Arc’s unique product features. This includes having payments count towards a daily or monthly fare cap (a maximum amount that can be paid over the period), and adding only as much money as they want to their Arc account at one time. Another benefit is the money is stored in an Arc account, not on the card itself, which brings peace of mind if the registered card is lost or stolen. Once money is added, the card can be used immediately for a trip on transit.

To support the rollout, tap on/tap off Arc card readers have been already installed on most participating transit agency buses and smart fare vending machines are being installed in Edmonton LRT stations and key regional transit locations. These machines will accept cash, debit or credit card payment and will remain off until the pilot testing begins this summer.

Customers can find timely updates and information at edmonton.ca/SmartFare or participating regional transit web pages.


For more information:
edmonton.ca/SmartFare
strathcona.ca/smartfare
stalbert.ca/city/transit/fares/


Media contact:
Rowan Anderson
Communications Advisor
Communications and Engagement
780-690-1605

[MalcolmTucker]

Will see what latency is like. The devil is in the details with electronic fare cards - ones with automatic recharge and online connectivity are really hard to do well unless you're willing to trust that people aren't going to try to game the system and the agency extends a little bit of credit. That money is available immediately (and never stored on the card) tells me that either every reader will get and send constant live updates from a central database - hopefully it is fast. Hopefully they aren't counting on an instant call to a remote database for every transaction.

Implementing similar systems with early 2010s has been hard - Chicago never met its latency standards, Vancouver's advanced features -- did they ever get around to activating them? And Presto demands on periodic data dumps into and from the readers; reconciliation, and stored value in the cards themselves.

As for the name, sounds great. Even if ERC (Edmonton Regional Card) but pronounced ark would have been a bit more descriptive.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Bout time, but I love the name/card.
---

Arc Card unveiled; Smart Fare machines turned on for pilot testing

Did they look at open payments at all?

[Coldrsx]

Who knows, but they are so far behind that this seems like the future.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Who knows, but they are so far behind that this seems like the future.

Fairly typical of transit fare cards? No?

I'm trying to understand what is futuristic here. Or why they didn't just skip all this and go to open payments.

[Coldrsx]

That's my point... 10 years late and 10 years behind.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

That's my point... 10 years late and 10 years behind.

Any logo/card design yet?

It sounds like the new card will at least have fare capping, which is great. Ahead of Ottawa and Toronto on that (currently being considered).

Great to see all municipalities use it as well.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

That's my point... 10 years late and 10 years behind.

Oops. Missed the sarcasm.

Yes. It's sadly late.

At this point why even bother with unique fare media. Should have gone straight to open payments.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ahead of Ottawa and Toronto on that (currently being considered).

Presto has fare capping. TTC and OC Transpo refuse to make fare policies that cap.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Presto has fare capping. TTC and OC Transpo refuse to make fare policies that cap.

Both seem to realize now that it could be beneficial. Hopefully, they can implement this fairly quickly. Very much needed for the customers, but also their own benefit, in a post-Covid world.

[J.OT13]

Ottawa O-Train's second of four Happy Goat Coffee locations has now open at Rideau Station.

Happy Goat #2 now open at Rideau Station.


https://twitter.com/OCT_Fan/status/1402722984608083968

https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/happy-goat-cafes-opening-soon/

Blair opened in December 2020. Hurdman and Tunney's are next, but no date have been confirmed.

All four were to open in Spring 2020 however, this was delayed due to the pandemic.

[Beedok]

Good to see. The lack of any shops at Ottawa’s transit stations can make many of them feel rather hostile at night. Especially the more isolated ones. As a woman who frequently has to travel home from work late at night, I’d appreciate if there was a more permanent human presence at stations.