Downtown Vancouver Updates

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I wonder how condo amenity pools factor into their assumptions for pool usage.

Agreed, and an interesting take, as someone with a pool in my building, but for kids under say... 10, rec centre esk pools are in a league of their own. Private residential pools are not that long for laps typically.

[jlousa]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Could you provide a list of the new non-market housing UBC has built in the past few years?

It's all about needs, and priorities.

Probably because non-market housing isn't a civic reasonability, but shh don't tell the COV that.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Probably because non-market housing isn't a civic reasonability, but shh don't tell the COV that.

It became one, by default, and because of the dramatic increase in homelessness. Obviously Vancouver could have followed the Burnaby 'not my problem' approach - which probably made it even more of a problem in Vancouver. However bad it is now, imagine how much worse things would be if the City hadn't built or negotiated the 1,250 social housing units completed in the last 10 years, or the 700 temporary modular housing units, and the 1,500 social housing units currently under construction.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It became one, by default, and because of the dramatic increase in homelessness. Obviously Vancouver could have followed the Burnaby 'not my problem' approach - which probably made it even more of a problem in Vancouver. However bad it is now, imagine how much worse things would be if the City hadn't built or negotiated the 1,250 social housing units completed in the last 10 years, or the 700 temporary modular housing units, and the 1,500 social housing units currently under construction.

ever heard of induced demand?

its almost as if, building and promising free housing, has brought more vagrants to Vancouver. since Vancouver started building free housing for vagrants, the # has only increased. well, that's not true. taxes have gone up and crime rates have also gone up. it is great, pay more $$$ to bring in more people to rob tax payers that paid for their free housing. gotta love Vancouver.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

ever heard of induced demand?

its almost as if, building and promising free housing, has brought more vagrants to Vancouver. since Vancouver started building free housing for vagrants, the # has only increased. well, that's not true. taxes have gone up and crime rates have also gone up. it is great, pay more $$$ to bring in more people to rob tax payers that paid for their free housing. gotta love Vancouver.

Your in-depth understanding of the causes of homelessness, and your overwhelming empathy towards 'vagrants' makes it totally unnecessary to respond.

[jlousa]

I think it's ridiculous for the cov to even attempt to intervene in anything outside their scope. Their focus should be on running the city not social engineering. How did Gregory promise to end homelessness...later changed to street homelessness go? The fact our neighboring municipalities arent playing the same game is telling. The pressure should be on the appropriate level of government to address, in this case the province with help from th feds. They can only download their responsibilities onto you if you let them. Would you do your bosses job for him at work if he slacks off or would you let him deal with the consequences. Nothing will change until those that are responsible are held responsible. Imagine the way things are going now with the parks board refusing to cut grass it falls onto citizens to bring their battery powered mowers to the park because downloading...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I think it's ridiculous for the cov to even attempt to intervene in anything outside their scope. Their focus should be on running the city not social engineering. How did Gregory promise to end homelessness...later changed to street homelessness go? The fact our neighboring municipalities arent playing the same game is telling. The pressure should be on the appropriate level of government to address, in this case the province with help from th feds. They can only download their responsibilities onto you if you let them. Would you do your bosses job for him at work if he slacks off or would you let him deal with the consequences. Nothing will change until those that are responsible are held responsible. Imagine the way things are going now with the parks board refusing to cut grass it falls onto citizens to bring their battery powered mowers to the park because downloading...

Right now the province are stepping up, and to give the Liberals credit, the 13 sites were developed with their funding (but only when the City provided the land). That's possibly why homelessness didn't go up in Vancouver between the 2017 and 2020 homeless surveys. The Feds talk more than walk, although some projects have 3-way funding. I suspect we'd be more like San Francisco or Seattle if the City had done nothing. But this debate feels like deja vu, (diverted by Vin's comment, again) and is not really about any particular Downtown project any more. So over and out.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Your in-depth understanding of the causes of homelessness, and your overwhelming empathy towards 'vagrants' makes it totally unnecessary to respond.

Sentiment is changing, and it will continue to do so.

The narrative that its Vancouver's problem has been broken since day one, Covid should have made that abundantly clear.

There needs to be push back on this being Vancouver's problem.

The housing should be going to working families or working singles that struggle to keep a roof above their heads, I know some of it does.

The rest of the able bodied 20-30 year old's looking for handouts on Granville daily? Tough luck - clean up and move on.

No sleeping in parks overnight, no camping in front of business. People come here to be homeless because its convenient.

Is it harsh? Definitely. But not every seemingly desperate situation deserves empathy, particularly if the problems are self imposed. There is plenty of work, minimum wage is $15.20 now, half the people on Granville are perfectly capable of holding down a job. Its clearly a choice not to, because its easy not to.

Identify those with needs, help them. Not everyone requires equal urgency or priority, and I think its fair to say Vancouverites are tired of being a endlessly generous. I know I am.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by jlousa

The fact our neighboring municipalities arent playing the same game is telling.

It's telling on a lot of levels. One of them being that the homeless issue needs to addressed as a coordinated effort from every single municipality within the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley (at the very least). On the otherhand it's also directly exposing what the hadout strategies (that certain municipalities are practising) lead to: more homelessness.

Originally Posted by rofina

Sentiment is changing, and it will continue to do so.

The narrative that its Vancouver's problem has been broken since day one, Covid should have made that abundantly clear.

There needs to be push back on this being Vancouver's problem.

The housing should be going to working families or working singles that struggle to keep a roof above their heads, I know some of it does.

The rest of the able bodied 20-30 year old's looking for handouts on Granville daily? Tough luck - clean up and move on.

No sleeping in parks overnight, no camping in front of business. People come here to be homeless because its convenient.

Is it harsh? Definitely. But not every seemingly desperate situation deserves empathy, particularly if the problems are self imposed. There is plenty of work, minimum wage is $15.20 now, half the people on Granville are perfectly capable of holding down a job. Its clearly a choice not to, because its easy not to.

Identify those with needs, help them. Not everyone requires equal urgency or priority, and I think its fair to say Vancouverites are tired of being a endlessly generous. I know I am.

I agree. Enough with the pussy-footing.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by rofina

Sentiment is changing, and it will continue to do so.

The narrative that its Vancouver's problem has been broken since day one, Covid should have made that abundantly clear.

There needs to be push back on this being Vancouver's problem.

The housing should be going to working families or working singles that struggle to keep a roof above their heads, I know some of it does.

The rest of the able bodied 20-30 year old's looking for handouts on Granville daily? Tough luck - clean up and move on.

No sleeping in parks overnight, no camping in front of business. People come here to be homeless because its convenient.

Is it harsh? Definitely. But not every seemingly desperate situation deserves empathy, particularly if the problems are self imposed. There is plenty of work, minimum wage is $15.20 now, half the people on Granville are perfectly capable of holding down a job. Its clearly a choice not to, because its easy not to.

Identify those with needs, help them. Not everyone requires equal urgency or priority, and I think its fair to say Vancouverites are tired of being a endlessly generous. I know I am.

Not harsh at all, especially for the majority. This is good to prevent the next generation opting to be homeless simply cuz it's more "profitable". You get my vote on this.

Originally Posted by Changing City

Right now the province are stepping up, and to give the Liberals credit, the 13 sites were developed with their funding (but only when the City provided the land). That's possibly why homelessness didn't go up in Vancouver between the 2017 and 2020 homeless surveys. The Feds talk more than walk, although some projects have 3-way funding. I suspect we'd be more like San Francisco or Seattle if the City had done nothing. But this debate feels like deja vu, (diverted by Vin's comment, again) and is not really about any particular Downtown project any more. So over and out.

Cheap shot. Feeling insecure again I reckon?

Spin it all you must. Everyone can tell it's a total failure on all levels.
As far as I can tell, there is currently no sustainable way to address the situation, except a bunch of band-aids: worst of all is drug legalization, which will turn more people into useless zombies and criminals.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If we had UBC's endless stream of international $$$tudents and tiny operating costs, we'd probably have a pool too.

Yes there are plenty: not all international students go to UBC, mind you, and funny you think that a city the size and clout of Vancouver needs international students to get a measly pool

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

My knowledge of Vancouver's tax / CAC allocation system is still in its infancy, but as far as I know the wealth gets spread around the whole city. Hence the recent "Van Splash"(?) strategies to replace and renew a lot of the city's centres. Britannia is on the list... and so is VAC. Not sure why more rich areas should get gold treatment, as per your comment, but definitely these areas have received new community / daycare centres recently (Roundhouse & Coal Harbour). I think the balance of old/ new, and expansion and renewal are on track as best they can.

Vancouver seems to be basking in past glories. Roundhouse and Coal Harbour are basically from the 90s. It has been 2 decades since then, and most of those community centres created are not even the least impressive. Even the privately owned YMCA/YWCA facilities trump over them. Ask any folks who live downtown and they will say so too. The city's failure to reinvent itself when it comes to development, as well as the misuse of public money, have indeed crippled itself from building more for the working class.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Vancouver seems to be basking in past glories. Roundhouse and Coal Harbour are basically from the 90s. It has been 2 decades since then, and most of those community centres created are not even the least impressive. Even the privately owned YMCA/YWCA facilities trump over them. Ask any folks who live downtown and they will say so too. The city's failure to reinvent itself when it comes to development, as well as the misuse of public money, have indeed crippled itself from building more for the working class.

Hillcrest is an amazing facility, pools and rec centre.

Didn't Trout Lake get a big upgrade as part of the 2010 facilities?

As usual, you're big on rants, low on facts.

[GenWhy?]

If this thread is confusing "community centres" and "rec / pool centres" I can understand where the confusion of faculties and programming is coming from.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

Cheap shot. Feeling insecure again I reckon?

He who smelt it, dealt it.

Originally Posted by Vin

Yes there are plenty: not all international students go to UBC, mind you, and funny you think that a city the size and clout of Vancouver needs international students to get a measly pool

Vancouver seems to be basking in past glories. Roundhouse and Coal Harbour are basically from the 90s. It has been 2 decades since then, and most of those community centres created are not even the least impressive. Even the privately owned YMCA/YWCA facilities trump over them. Ask any folks who live downtown and they will say so too. The city's failure to reinvent itself when it comes to development, as well as the misuse of public money, have indeed crippled itself from building more for the working class.

No, just most of them.

City Hall also wants to replace the Kerrisdale and Britannica pools, $45m each, and Connaught, $92m. The VAC replacement will cost $94m.

UBC only needs $40 million for one pool, and doesn't have to worry about sewers, parks or transportation; multiple pools with only a tenth of their surplus would take a long time for them as well. The Y at Langara already had to cancel a move to Pearson-Dogwood because it didn't have the funding.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

If this thread is confusing "community centres" and "rec / pool centres" I can understand where the confusion of faculties and programming is coming from.

There's only one poster confusing the two. But we are now completely off-topic.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But we are now completely off-topic.

We are - and we can guess who helped get us here. To return to the point that started all this - both the new YMCA and the older YWCA were the result of the planners negotiating bonus density for an adjacent development to help pay for the new facilities. Neither would exist without that system. Something similar was therefore considered for the replacement pool in connection to the Loops. I think it was a City Manager idea - not one from the planners. But a pool wouldn't fit, and compromised the development on the site, and so was pushed back to the Parks Board to replace it in the usual cycle of replacing facilities (using funds generated from West End CACs, no doubt).

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

But a pool wouldn't fit, and compromised the development on the site, and so was pushed back to the Parks Board to replace it in the usual cycle of replacing facilities (using funds generated from West End CACs, no doubt).

I know the West End Plan is fairly dated by now, but was surprised to see this for rec centres:

Property Taxes & Fees = $80-85 M
CACs = $10 M

Might be $100+ million today. Everything else (aside from childcare) seems to be fairly balanced. I think I understand, like, this due to the fact that it, in a way, prevents all the nice new stuff going into shiny new condo neighbourhoods.

My gut says I don't think we'll see a released Waterfront Plan without the City Plan.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I know the West End Plan is fairly dated by now, but was surprised to see this for rec centres:

Property Taxes & Fees = $80-85 M
CACs = $10 M

Might be $100+ million today. Everything else (aside from childcare) seems to be fairly balanced. I think I understand, like, this due to the fact that it, in a way, prevents all the nice new stuff going into shiny new condo neighbourhoods.

My gut says I don't think we'll see a released Waterfront Plan without the City Plan.

I see that too. I guess the $90 - 100m they anticipated to have in total DCLs and CACs had to be allocated across all the different benefits the Plan-generated projects are supposed to help fund. The replacements of the Community Centre and Aquatic Centre are acknowledged, and expected to be funded as usual from the Capital Plan.

I forgotten that the Plan says those replacements would be in a 30 year timeframe, and that the 10 year strategy (to 2023) is only promising to get the VSB, Park Board and Library together to work out how that might happen, so they're not even behind schedule yet. And the Waterfront Plan presumably includes planning for the Aquatic Centre replacement. I don't know if that has to wait for the City Plan, I had the impression that the West End Plan was new enough, and with plenty more to still be developed, that they wouldn't be revisiting the West End in the City Plan.

[GenWhy?]

Right, never mind, I thought Council had more to do with the waterfront plan than I thought, but it's solely a Park Board item, I understand? Thought there was Council input due to transportation items in it and the site area goes beyond park space.

I've just been talking with City Staff and Councilors / watching meetings over expanding housing for 2 years and the major goes "oh, the City Plan will fix everything, let's wait for that", so hopefully that's not the case at all here. A little... pessimistic lately.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Obviously Vancouver could have followed the Burnaby 'not my problem' approach - which probably made it even more of a problem in Vancouver.

And god bless Burnaby for that! Vancouverites keep voting ideological idiots on city council year after year, and here is the result. Burnaby should build a moat on its western border along Boundary Road.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

And god bless Burnaby for that! Vancouverites keep voting ideological idiots on city council year after year, and here is the result. Burnaby should build a moat on its western border along Boundary Road.

There was an 80% increase in the number of homeless in Burnaby between 2017 and 2020, and a 2% drop in Vancouver. You must be so proud.