General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by xymox

PHX Biz Journals says that it was postponed again. Rumors Samsung announces on Friday the site location. May have lost out on this one.

Yeah just read the article...all smoke pointing to Austin now. Would've been nice to land them but if the Reuter's TSMC article holds true, then will have another $25B investment for a 3nm fab. Nice consolation prize.

[biggus diggus]

I was under the impression Austin had all but secured it as much as a month ago.

[ASU Diablo]

It's not over yet...

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...no-decision-has-been-made-for-plant.html

Despite widespread speculation that Austin will be home to its $17 billion chipmaking plant, Samsung officials told Austin Business Journal on May 21 that a decision has not yet been made.

But the tech giant has decided to build its next plant somewhere in the United States — either in Texas, Arizona or upstate New York — rather than its home country of South Korea.

[xymox]

Drove by the TSMC site along L303 today - what a shock. I don't recall hearing anything in the news that indicated that they started work on the site - but they are pretty far along! A massive foundation has been leveled out. Two mobile cranes on site and what appeared to be an army of what seemed like 30 earth movers as well. Further down the L303 at where 51st Ave would cross is another smaller site being prepared with a mobile crane and a few earth movers/excavators as well. I'd imagine we'll see this thing go vertical very shortly. As far as I can tell no work on the city roads has even started there yet. You hear about the scale of these projects and until you go by and see them close up - this is just massive. I am trying to imagine them doing this 5 times more for the additional Fabs & Foundry they are talking about building at the same location.

Wondering how long before ADOT wraps up expanding the L303 and building out the interchange with I-17 and overpasses at 43rd and 51st Ave...

[xymox]

Originally Posted by xymox

Wondering how long before ADOT wraps up expanding the L303 and building out the interchange with I-17 and overpasses at 43rd and 51st Ave...

Well, here's my answer: Fall of 2022 construction starts. City of Phoenix started this with ADOT in April of this year...

https://azdot.gov/51st-and-43rd-avenues-...-lake-pleasant-parkway-i-17-improvements

[xymox]

Business Journal article on the TSMC site and its impact to north Phoenix:

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...uctor-plant-transform-north-phoenix.html

The area where TSMC is building in north Phoenix is called Biscuit Flats and is south of Carefree Highway along the 43rd Avenue alignment. Right now, it is undeveloped and has little infrastructure.

That won’t be the case for long, though.

The land TSMC bought at a state land auction was part of a larger stretch, totaling about 3,500 acres, now dubbed the Sonoran Oasis Science and Technology Park, which has already been rezoned for employment uses, with a focus on advanced manufacturing, said Christine Mackay, economic and community development director for the city of Phoenix.

The technology park, which also has room for TSMC to expand its facilities, also will likely be a landing spot for other advanced manufacturing companies that work in tandem with the chipmaker and other companies within the supply chain aiming to work nearby.

City of Phoenix documents suggest that the TSMC project will be built in multiple phases, with the first phase totaling about 3.8 million square feet of semiconductor manufacturing facilities as well as administrative and other support facilities.

The eastern portion of the 3,500-acre site was rezoned as freeway mixed-use, which allows several different commercial uses and is more flexible than the rest of the technology park site, which focused heavily on high-tech industrial development. The eastern portion allows employment uses, regional commercial, office, hospitality and multifamily development. According to city documents, that portion was designated to complement and support the technology park uses that dominate the remainder of the site.

Quite curious how the city will grow north of Carefree Hwy - there is a federal prison up there which will limit housing. There's also Ben Avery literally across the street from this which I don't see going anywhere anytime soon.

[combusean]

The city has it in their General Plan...

https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/PZ/pdd_pz_pdf_00174.pdf

The whole area is "mixed use" surrounding New River with the typical North North Phoenix sprawl surrounding it.

The truth is, however, it'll be what the market wants. People will pay to live there and will accept the tradeoffs. The prison isn't that impactful as it's medium security. I lived a half mile from a shooting range for some years, mostly tolerated it, but I was glad when it finally closed down.

Encroachment and environmental cleanup issues will probably end up closing down Ben Avery within a generation, maybe the FCI will move on to.

On a vaguely related note, I've always found the Phoenix federal prison inmate handbook a surreal read.

https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/phx/PHX_aohandbook.pdf

[ASUSunDevil]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3701990-ka...ftbank-backed-startup-to-close-this-year

Curious as to how this will affect their Phoenix projects...

https://katerra.com/projects/

[combusean]

They're walking away from projects they've committed to. This is terrible news considering Katerra has built sooo much downtown.

[YourBuddy]

I guess this means Link phase 3 is dead. Wonder what happens to projects like Society and One Camelback.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by combusean

They're walking away from projects they've committed to. This is terrible news considering Katerra has built sooo much downtown.

What actual projects have they committed to?? Only one I can think of is Social Basecamp (or whatever it’s called now) by 2nd Ave n McKinley right? McKinley Green is True North I believe.

[biggus diggus]

Everything on their site that says Phoenix is either wrapped up or wrapping up.

Regardless, they are a construction company. If the developer of Link, or any other building wants to hire another contractor they can.

[combusean]

Katerra had First McKinley and X Basecamp. First McKinley was originally a TrueNorth project so that doesn't exactly bode well for anything else.

Wouldn't actually surprise me if Katerra's demise was behind the lull in groundbreakings.

[biggus diggus]

Katerra's mismanagement may well be partly responsible for a delay but don't discount the labor shortage and unprecedented materials shortage as factors. If a developer is serious then the insolvency of their GC should be nothing more than a speed bump. Can't swing a dead cat in this city without hitting a GC capable of large scale development.

[combusean]

Katerra was unique because they bid low, I don't know their full story but I surmise that was unsustainably and perhaps artificially low as they had SoftBank startup money behind them. It's difficult as it is to get towers to pencil out in Phoenix and why GPLETs continue to be sought.

So it's not a matter of finding a GC, it's a matter of finding a GC that had Katerra's advantages. The nightmare scenario is that Katerra is why these towers penciled out and there might not be an adequate replacement.

Katerra also has Palmcourt Tower and Skye on 6th according to page 13 of https://azmasonry.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Housing-Panel-Deck_FINAL.pdf

Bad day for this forum imho.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

What actual projects have they committed to?? Only one I can think of is Social Basecamp (or whatever it’s called now) by 2nd Ave n McKinley right? McKinley Green is True North I believe.

Katerra was also the hired GC for Palm Tower as well. Figures...we finally get a fence up for Palm and then this.

But I do think this will only just result in minor delays of a few months at most. As Biggus stated, Katerra is the construction contractor. The developer's can find another GC and there's plenty to pick in Phoenix that I'm sure will jump at the chance to build these projects.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by combusean

Katerra was unique because they bid low, I don't know their full story but I surmise that was unsustainably and perhaps artificially low as they had SoftBank startup money behind them. It's difficult as it is to get towers to pencil out in Phoenix and why GPLETs continue to be sought.

So it's not a matter of finding a GC, it's a matter of finding a GC that had Katerra's advantages. The nightmare scenario is that Katerra is why these towers penciled out and there might not be an adequate replacement.

Katerra also has Palmcourt Tower and Skye on 6th according to page 13 of https://azmasonry.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Housing-Panel-Deck_FINAL.pdf

Bad day for this forum imho.

Had to look up Sky as I thought it was another GC. Since Sky is now in the process of moving dirt, it will be interesting to see what happens here.

[YourBuddy]

I hope you guys are right to think it will only be delays. It’s hard to imagine they would start on a project like Sky knowing they weren’t going to finish it. Hopefully they will start and another company takes over or another company has already taken over. If there is a time for delays to find new general contractors now would be the time as everything seems to be delayed anyway with the cost of materials being so high.

[azliam]

Report: SoftBank-backed construction startup Katerra, with several Valley projects underway, is shutting down

By Cromwell Schubarth – TechFlash Editor, Silicon Valley Business Journal
Jun 1, 2021

Construction startup Katerra Inc., which had raised more than $2 billion since it was founded in 2015, is reportedly shutting down.

The company, which was based in Menlo Park, California until recently, told employees Tuesday it plans to cease operations, The Information reported. It will let go thousands of employees and is likely to walk away from dozens of construction projects it had agreed to build, according to the report.

Katerra is building five projects in the Valley, including the 11-story One Camelback luxury apartments and the multifamily Society Phoenix building in downtown Phoenix, and was slated to construct a 26-story apartment tower in downtown. A source with knowledge of Katerra's plans, said the company is having ongoing conversations and cooperation with clients to make sure those projects that are under construction get completed.

Also..."Katerra took on too many projects and side businesses when it was getting going, Kibsgaard told the Wall Street Journal at the time" and "I think we underestimated the complexity of executing self-perform projects at a large scale, including manufacturing and material sourcing and managing our own labor."

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...cx_testVariant=cx_9&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

[biggus diggus]

The sky isn't falling,.

The worst case scenario, in my mind, is that some GC is cutting corners in order to offer enticing rates and their buildings start falling apart in 5-10-20 years. Landmark is a great example. That building is crap. The GC cut every corner in the book from electrical to plumbing to the HVAC stacks. They've been stuck in lawsuits over there for a decade almost and in the mean there's no sales value in a condo there and the rents are incredibly depressed. Central and Camelback with all utilities included for $1000ish a month.

Imagine a downtown phoenix full of Landmarks. It makes me shudder.

If Katerra was cutting corners to offer cut-rate construction then I am glad they're not involved in my city any longer.

Now, lets talk about the fact that Phoenix is the fastest growing city in the country with a severe housing shortage, no end in sight with our increase in property values and a booming economy. Remember, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a GC. If there's money to be made someone will make it.

edit: this quote cracks me up: "Katerra took on too many projects and side businesses when it was getting going, Kibsgaard told the Wall Street Journal at the time" and "I think we underestimated the complexity of executing self-perform projects at a large scale, including manufacturing and material sourcing and managing our own labor."