Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Flattening out the rush hour peaks for both transit and roads would be a great long term benefit.

Have working hours more spread out too maybe.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Have working hours more spread out too maybe.

Companies have been being urged to do this for decades. My working hours were 6:30 AM to 2:30 PM until I retired in 2005, I loved it because I always got a nice seat on the Skytrain and Seabus.

But it never became very widely adopted and I doubt the pandemic will have done anything to change that.

[nname]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Companies have been being urged to do this for decades. My working hours were 6:30 AM to 2:30 PM until I retired in 2005, I loved it because I always got a nice seat on the Skytrain and Seabus.

But it never became very widely adopted and I doubt the pandemic will have done anything to change that.

11:20am to 7:20pm for me. SkyTrain is pretty empty both ways, plus my return trip is just a single zone while having peak-hours service.

Originally Posted by officedweller

The weird thing with this statement is that it implies that people are now working during what was previously their commute (ie personal) time. ... unless 'productivity' includes personal tasks - which is obviously true because you can do laundry, etc. while working from home.

Most people in my company actually work longer hours while working from home. Working past midnight and working on the weekends seems to be the norm now. And now it's even possible to schedule meetings at 6am or 11:30pm

[officedweller]

A lot of staff (legal assistants) at our firm work 8am-4pm.

Originally Posted by nname

And now it's even possible to schedule meetings at 6am or 11:30pm

Ouch.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by nname

And now it's even possible to schedule meetings at 6am or 11:30pm

Sounds like something youth leaders at a youth camp would do (but not actual office workers)

Been there, done that

[nname]

Originally Posted by Express691

Sounds like something youth leaders at a youth camp would do (but not actual office workers)

Been there, done that

Well, meeting with customers whose working hours happens to be in the middle of the night here, so one of us have to work in weird hours. It was always the customer adjusting before WFH starts...

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by nname

Well, meeting with customers whose working hours happens to be in the middle of the night here, so one of us have to work in weird hours. It was always the customer adjusting before WFH starts...

I do work weird hours. I tend to go to sleep around 4am and wake up around noon. Good ol' kitchen life.

[Express691]

Coming from Malaysia - Bombardier ART LIM trains involved in collision, dozens injured, suspected miscommunication

Report is due in 2 weeks.

Minister: First accident of its kind in the system's 23 years of operation

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asi...lumpur-injured-klcc-kelana-jaya-14877466

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Express691

Coming from Malaysia - Bombardier ART LIM trains involved in collision, dozens injured, suspected miscommunication

Report is due in 2 weeks.

I'm going to add this from Malaysia's The Star:

LRT Kelana Jaya collision involved train under testing and passenger train

KUALA LUMPUR: A train under manual control that was undergoing testing was involved in a head-on collision with another carrying 213 passengers along the LRT Kelana Jaya line between the KLCC and Kampung Baru stations on Monday (May 24).

Dang Wangi OCPD Asst Comm Mohamad Zainal Abdullah said the incident occurred at around 8.45pm on Monday.

"A total of 166 people suffered minor injuries while 47 suffered severe injuries in the incident. The driver from the train that was being tested was also injured in the incident.

...

"The other train was undergoing a test drive when the collision occurred.

"The train that was being tested should not have been on the same track with the train that was travelling from Gombak," he said adding that the case was being investigated under Section 201 of the Land Public Transportation Act 2010.

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2...-train-under-testing-and-passenger-train

Human error involving a manually driven train - so the safety/track record of driverless operations is unaffected.

The Kelana Jaya Line is our twin (it also uses the Seltrac system), but authorities in Malaysia so far have determined that a communications error between the control centre and the driver of the test train is the likely cause.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Not to mention that Malaysia isn't exactly the tightest-run ship in Southeast Asia (or anywhere).

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

that is like when the Expo Line was in testing and there were the odd issues, all of them were human operated trains and/or human operated switches at the time.

[xd_1771]

A major update on the KL incident from The Star. The driver of the manually-driven train (Train 40) quite literally went into the wrong side of the train and began driving it in the wrong way, opposite of the direction which he was instructed to go...

LRT train mishap: Accident due to human error, says Transport Minister

PETALING JAYA: A preliminary investigation has found that the collision of two LRT trains on the Kelana Jaya line is due to negligence, says Transport Minister Datuk Seri Dr Wee Ka Siong.

... the accident was due to the negligence of the driver who was manually driving train 40, which had no passengers at the time.

"It was due to the mistake by the person driving the train in the wrong direction," he said during a live press conference via Zoom on Tuesday (May 25).

Dr Wee explained that the initial Land Public Transport Agency investigation found that Train 40 was supposed to head on the southbound line towards the Dang Wangi station, but it headed on the northbound line towards the Gombak depot instead.

"This caused Train 40 and Train 81 to collide, ” he added.

Dr Wee said Train 40 was manually driven by a "hostler" (train driver) because the automatic system in the coach was found to be faulty.

"The driver was then ordered to manually drive the coach from the Kampung Baru station towards the Dang Wangi station.

He added that at the same time, Train 81 was operating automatically when it was carrying passengers and was heading southbound towards Kampung Baru at 8.40pm from KLCC after receiving information that Train 40 was heading towards the Dang Wangi station.

"At 8.33pm, the hostler called the command centre and informed that Train 40 had collided with another train and at 8.37pm, the hostler from Train 40 identified Train 81 as the train it crashed into, carrying 213 passengers."

...

I did a bit of research earlier and posted on CPTDB drawing from sources sent to me from some contacts in Malaysia. According to one passenger in a news report, the emergency brakes on the train with the passengers on board (Train 81) applied before the collision, so train 81 was indeed able to detect the oncoming train and had slowed down considerably before it was hit.

So my guess is that the automated control system likely reduced the severity of the crash versus if this were a manually driven system. One thing I'm going to add but if y'all have ever seen a map of the KL system, the segment where the collision occurred between KLCC and Kampang Baru is in a tunnel with sharp grades and curves (check out a YouTube video if y'all are curious). If a train coming for you is around the corner, there are no clear sightlines.

A number of people on the Malaysian forum Lowyat seem to agree: if the trains hadn't emergency braked and were travelling at higher speed, the collision would have been much worse (on this thread they've been citing various other incidents in Taiwan, Singapore and Japan to compare).

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

A major update on the KL incident from The Star. The driver of the manually-driven train (Train 40) quite literally went into the wrong side of the train and began driving it in the wrong way, opposite of the direction which he was instructed to go...

SkyTrain has processes and procedures that should prevent something like this from happening. Any time a train is being driven manually, the hostler has to read out consecutive track section numbers (the orange number along the LIM rail) to confirm the travel direction before they are allowed to proceed.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not to mention that Malaysia isn't exactly the tightest-run ship in Southeast Asia (or anywhere).

Well I would have to say after Singapore there really is a big drop off to 2nd place in terms of ship tightness. But given that, Malaysia would likely be in that standing.

[TransitJack]

If the manually driven train is tracked by the system then even if procedures and manual route protections are omitted by Control, the system will still emergency brake automatic trains that get too close.

The most dangerous situation is an untracked train, which does occur sometimes and it is critical the property manual protection is input to protect the manual train movements along with procedures for manual moves (eg a clearance)

Rules apply and procedures dictate that here and presumably there too; I think it is likely human error in that process that resulted in the incident.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

Rules apply and procedures dictate that here and presumably there too; I think it is likely human error in that process that resulted in the incident.

I guess that one of the disadvantages of a fully automated system is the lack of wayside signals that can inform a manually operated train of the occupancy state of the track ahead. One would expect that this lack of information would be compensated for by requiring constant communication with the control centre.

That the train was operated in the wrong direction is certainly the proximate cause of the accident - but the real question is why the system (hardware, software, procedures and policies) allowed that error to occur unchecked in the first place. That's what's got to be investigated and corrected to avoid the possibility of similar accidents in the future.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

that is like when the Expo Line was in testing and there were the odd issues, all of them were human operated trains and/or human operated switches at the time.

Wasn't there one derailment in Surrey or something?

[Express691]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Wasn't there one derailment in Surrey or something?

Long long time ago (but I was made aware weeks ago)
https://web.archive.org/web/201005311930...s+SkyTrain+derailment/3084244/story.html

In any case, the situation in Malaysia is a gongshow - I think you can find it online but TLDR the CEO of the "LRT" got ousted after a *very* sarcastic and unapologetic TV interview.
========
That aside, here is the Transit Service Performance Review for 2020.

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/transli...0-transit-service-performance-review.pdf

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Well I would have to say after Singapore there really is a big drop off to 2nd place in terms of ship tightness. But given that, Malaysia would likely be in that standing.

Originally Posted by Express691

Long long time ago (but I was made aware weeks ago)
https://web.archive.org/web/201005311930...s+SkyTrain+derailment/3084244/story.html

In any case, the situation in Malaysia is a gongshow - I think you can find it online but TLDR the CEO of the "LRT" got ousted after a *very* sarcastic and unapologetic TV interview.

Well as far as the Asian community is concerned, the Malaysian government ranks somewhere between Venezuela and Berlusconi's Italy.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Well as far as the Asian community is concerned, the Malaysian government ranks somewhere between Venezuela and Berlusconi's Italy.

That's a huge range