Rapid Transit - Page 194

ScreamingViking · #**3861** Posted **May 23, 2021, 4:45 PM**

There's a genuine lack of understanding of the bigger picture among many city residents (and beyond... we see lots of opinions submitted to news editorial pages from outside Hamilton too)

LRT direct benefits?
Yeah, they're mainly going to be in the corridor... but to say that it's currently "well served" by bus service is untrue. During peak hours there are still overcrowded buses and pass-bys, despite the efforts of the HSR. So this increase in capacity will improve that situation immensely (and for people who have to wait for 1, 2, or more buses to go by before being able to get on one, that means a faster trip).

Broader benefits?
For transit, there will be opportunities to improve the rest of the system; e.g., re-organizing some of the routes to link to the LRT such that fewer of them have to take meandering paths downtown. There will be opportunity to redeploy buses that currently run in the main east-west corridor to improve service on other routes throughout the city. There will surely be operational cost implications for that, but if people are serious about improving service across the whole city, it's a worthwhile expense.

Development potential seems to be the most quoted one, but only one side of that gets much mention (the "billions" in new builds and the property tax revenue associated with that). Suppose the city grasps this as an opportunity to really alter future development patterns? Reduce sprawl and increase density in neighbourhoods where it is very appropriate to do so, so that the forecast population growth doesn't largely happen on the urban fringe. There's not just a property tax revenue potential to that -- there's a service and infrastructure cost SAVINGS that can be had. And as we know, when the city extends outward, those costs don't grow at a linear rate, but at an exponential one... the farther out it goes, the more the associated costs grow.

Gotta think more globally here. Narrow-minded perspectives are what have led this city to make poor decisions in the past, and pass up opportunities that were handed to it. I think it would be a huge mistake to do that again.

jamincan · #**3862** Posted **May 26, 2021, 12:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I think you're missing the whole point of the LRT though. It isn't just for public transit, it will encourage development and overall growth to the city's economy. People will want to build condo towers, offices and other businesses along the line....that will, as a result, benefit the whole community.

This is not just about public transit - it is so much more.

Also, when Waterloo Region looked at what it would cost in road expansion if they didn't build LRT, it far outstripped the cost of LRT.

SteelTown · #**3863** Posted **May 26, 2021, 4:11 PM**

Since the incredible $3.4 billion funding announcement by the Federal and Provincial governments for Hamilton LRT, there has been an outpouring of support from the community. Alongside a coalition of all major local institutions, hundreds of residents have written to local leadership, telling them to support this new funding plan. Let's keep up the momentum.

The last hurdle to overcome is Hamilton City Council, who will need to express support for the plan before it moves forward.

This coming Wednesday, June 2, representatives from Metrolinx and the Ontario Ministry of Transportation (MTO) are coming to Hamilton to make a presentation to City Councillors on the $3.4 billion funding package.

This is the next opportunity to show our support for LRT to decision-makers. If you haven't already, click here to tell City Council to support LRT:

http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/statements/new

Remember, your continued engagement makes a big impact. Federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna specifically mentioned grassroots support as a driving factor that led to this new plan. This is an "all-or-nothing" offer from the federal and provincial governments, designated for LRT only, so the time for delay is over.

This is a rapidly developing situation and we may have another update between now and next Wednesday, so stay tuned.

In the meantime, please stay safe and healthy.

ShavedParmesanCheese · #**3864** Posted **May 26, 2021, 4:16 PM**

Oh hey, I got that email as well. Things are coming somewhat to a head, I'll be watching that meeting closely.

ScreamingViking · #**3865** Posted **May 27, 2021, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

This is the next opportunity to show our support for LRT to decision-makers. If you haven't already, click here to tell City Council to support LRT:

http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/statements/new

I can see "white heads" shaking now... mumbling stuff like gawd-damn activists

Added my two-cents to that site earlier today.

ScreamingViking · #**3866** Posted **May 27, 2021, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamincan

Also, when Waterloo Region looked at what it would cost in road expansion if they didn't build LRT, it far outstripped the cost of LRT.

EXACTLY the point!

One that tends to get ignored, or rationalized, or just... ignored.

craftbeerdad · #**3867** Posted **May 27, 2021, 2:41 PM**

Further to Steeltown's mention of the meeting next week, here's an article from CBC

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/lrt-hamilton-1.6041169

Verster is actually coming to present in person. I can't believe we might blow this.

ShavedParmesanCheese · #**3868** Posted **May 27, 2021, 3:50 PM**

Let's not panic, yet. I suspect the Metrolinx delegation will make it painfully apparent that this money is for one thing and one thing only... like it wasn't clear already. The election is next year, and if some members of the council want even a chance to keep their cushy jobs, they'll have to go along with this.

davidcappi · #**3869** Posted **May 27, 2021, 4:28 PM**

There are a lot of Hamilton voters who would see rejecting the funding as a good thing. Regardless, there are lots of municipalities with shovel ready projects who would happily take the funding.

Hoping they actually support this - it's going to be a rough 5-7 years of construction but worth it in the end, though I do worry about a lot of the supporters being avidly against the kind of development LRT brings.

TheHonestMaple · #**3870** Posted **May 28, 2021, 2:34 PM**

https://twitter.com/JoeyColeman/status/1397699649536937987

craftbeerdad · #**3871** Posted **May 28, 2021, 2:52 PM**

Joey Coleman really adds a lot of value unlike city council. The least city council can do would be to offer something better than 90s dial-up streaming quality for this important meeting (and frankly all meetings).

Innsertnamehere · #**3872** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 2:34 PM**

Metrolinx presentation underway now.

1/2 of the entirety HSR network ridership is apparently on the LRT line - shows why LRT makes sense.

The city is being asked to cover day to day operations, long term maintenance will be covered by Metrolinx. Operations estimated at $20m/year as a gross number - the overall additional cost burden would be lower as that would be net of fare revenue and savings from not operating buses on the line. The city is the one that has to do the math to figure out what the net number will be though. I imagine once fare revenue is accounted for and the fact that the HSR will have to run significantly fewer buses the overall net cost over today will amount to only a few million a year at most.

craftbeerdad · #**3873** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 2:41 PM**

here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lc1i9V9NSE

Also another article from yesterday - Pro-LRT Hamilton residents will consider paying more taxes for it: labourers' union
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/lrt-liuna-1.6047083

jonny24 · #**3874** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 3:05 PM**

What a dumbass Ferguson. "How will people drive home to Ancaster with the LRT in the way?"

Not that the LRT is an impassible wall, but Jesus Christ, use your existing urban highways/arteries and take Linc+James.

Now Partridge making it seem like it's shady that the LRT won't cover enhanced infrastructure that would have been the city's responsibility anyway.

TheHonestMaple · #**3875** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 3:24 PM**

Listening to the webcast now. It is extremely clear that most of the city councillors, especially those outside of the core (Ferguson and Partridge comes to mind) have absolutely zero clue about how these projects get built. A complete lack of engineering and construction knowledge. It's embarrassing listening to Patridge try to poke holes in the project.

Innsertnamehere · #**3876** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Listening to the webcast now. It is extremely clear that most of the city councillors, especially those outside of the core (Ferguson and Partridge comes to mind) have absolutely zero clue about how these projects get built. A complete lack of engineering and construction knowledge. It's embarrassing listening to Patridge try to poke holes in the project.

She's riling on that the costs of any infrastructure upgrades the city opts to do are not paid for by Metrolinx. Like - if the city wants upgrades they obviously pay for it, and Metrolinx doesn't know what they want. The additional marginal cost of laying a slightly larger pipe to accommodate higher capacities is likely marginal anyway as Metrolinx is paying for the like-for-like replacement already.

If council is worried about that they can opt for no upgrades. Any costs that are incurred for this would likely be covered by development charges anyway and would not come out of general tax revenues.

craftbeerdad · #**3877** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 3:40 PM**

Trying to work and watch this the same time, but wow, talk about clueless individuals.

Thank goodness Phil Verster just pointed out the infrastructure benefits, residential/commercial development, housing appreciation, etc around North American examples of LRT.

craftbeerdad · #**3878** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 4:18 PM**

Break - resumes at 12:45pm

Still a host of councilors to come, plus the mayor and the "I need to be heard councilors" coming back for round 2 of find the holes.

ScreamingViking · #**3879** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 5:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

Trying to work and watch this the same time, but wow, talk about clueless individuals.

Thank goodness Phil Verster just pointed out the infrastructure benefits, residential/commercial development, housing appreciation, etc around North American examples of LRT.

Or they're being willfully daft on purpose, because they cannot look at this and ask questions with open minds or they'll risk alienating the folks that vote them back on to council.

And as for examples from other cities, they're not Hamilton. We're different, dontcha know.

bigguy1231 · #**3880** Posted **Jun 2, 2021, 5:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Listening to the webcast now. It is extremely clear that most of the city councillors, especially those outside of the core (Ferguson and Partridge comes to mind) have absolutely zero clue about how these projects get built. A complete lack of engineering and construction knowledge. It's embarrassing listening to Patridge try to poke holes in the project.

You do realize that Ferguson was the General Manager of Dufferin Construction for over 25 years. He has more construction experience than the people building the LRT. Here's a link to his Linkedin biography and achievements in construction.

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/lloyd-ferguson-77542044