General Vancouver Updates

[osirisboy]

Well just because something falls within zoning doesn’t mean there can’t be push back lol.

Thx. Not super familiar with that area. it looked like a residential area on google maps with some typical low rise (village) commercial retail fronting Clark. I wasn’t talking about the height but more the huge blank walls. Also, its funny that self storage is “industrial” Seems like a waste

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Well just because something falls within zoning doesn’t mean there can’t be push back lol.

Thx. Not super familiar with that area. it looked like a residential area on google maps with some typical low rise (village) commercial retail fronting Clark. I wasn’t talking about the height but more the huge blank walls. Also, its funny that self storage is “industrial” Seems like a waste

I mean if it was the last piece of industrial land in the city then it might be a waste to build self-storage. But even in that neighbourhood there seems to be no shortage of older buildings/vacant sites that can be redeveloped into other light industrial usage.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Thx. Not super familiar with that area. it looked like a residential area on google maps with some typical low rise (village) commercial retail fronting Clark.

Used to ride the 22 from 7th to Venables (or walk, if the bus never showed up), and it's warehouses and old offices almost all the way down. You're really not losing anything of value here.

[officedweller]

I think the 'surprise' at seeing it is because it's south of the Grandview Cut.
I typically think of the industrial being north of the Cut.

In terms of scale, the Nature's Path HQ (if still going ahead?) will be nearby.
In terms of blank walls, self-storage facilities are usually placeholders for future development. (ie Maple leaf Storage (not this site) is owned by Pinnacle, isn't it?)

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

In terms of blank walls, self-storage facilities are usually placeholders for future development. (ie Maple leaf Storage (not this site) is owned by Pinnacle, isn't it?)

I believe it's owned by Larco. That would suggest it's a business that's a profit centre within an industrial context, rather than a holding operation. I don't think many if any of the self-storage operations in Vancouver are placeholders; they're relatively inexpensive to construct (often pre-formed off-site concrete walls with a steel subframe) and given the amount of 'stuff' people accumulate, and the limited storage in condos, they seem to have a long-term future. Unlike industrial buildings in the past, they're also usually built to the full allowed FSR - in this case 3.0. (That's changing with the multi-storey industrial being built in the same zones in the past couple of years).

They are also used as regional warehouses for small scale commercial businesses who use local reps to shelf-fill in stores. And there were several Downtown that have been redeveloped (a large one on Seymour replaced by The Charleson, and another by Vancouver House) and there a couple more likely to be replaced or repurposed (on Beatty, for example), so it's not all net new space, but rather adding space in locations where it can remain undisturbed for many years.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I believe it's owned by Larco. That would suggest it's a business that's a profit centre within an industrial context, rather than a holding operation. I don't think many if any of the self-storage operations in Vancouver are placeholders; they're relatively inexpensive to construct (often pre-formed off-site concrete walls with a steel subframe) and given the amount of 'stuff' people accumulate, and the limited storage in condos, they seem to have a long-term future. Unlike industrial buildings in the past, they're also usually built to the full allowed FSR - in this case 3.0. (That's changing with the multi-storey industrial being built in the same zones in the past couple of years).

They are also used as regional warehouses for small scale commercial businesses who use local reps to shelf-fill in stores. And there were several Downtown that have been redeveloped (a large one on Seymour replaced by The Charleson, and another by Vancouver House) and there a couple more likely to be replaced or repurposed (on Beatty, for example), so it's not all net new space, but rather adding space in locations where it can remain undisturbed for many years.

the one at Quebec & 2nd was built to be converted to office use when the time comes.

I figure at this point with the projects going on around it a total demo/rebuild is the only way to go. too much would be left on the table as is.

if you can combine it with the lot beside it towards the alley (car wash) you could be looking at something sizable.


also whats the deal with MARIOS GELATO. That site is hugely under utilized in it's current state.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I think you'll cause an actual riot if you demo that gelato place - especially when the parking lot and/or General Paint site across the street are still undeveloped.

Edit: Thinking of a different gelato place. Still, OV also has plenty of other underused sites to build on first.

[jollyburger]

They changed the Industrial zoning in Mt Pleasant to specifically remove any new mini-storage:

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/mount-ple...2016-open-house-information-displays.pdf

The Larco self-storage is from 2008.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They changed the Industrial zoning in Mt Pleasant to specifically remove any new mini-storage:

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/mount-ple...2016-open-house-information-displays.pdf

The Larco self-storage is from 2008.

Great, because God knows every condo being built in that area will have plenty of room to store people's things.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They changed the Industrial zoning in Mt Pleasant to specifically remove any new mini-storage:

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/mount-ple...2016-open-house-information-displays.pdf

The Larco self-storage is from 2008.

The zoning was only changed for the blocks up Quebec Street. The rest of the Mount Pleasant Industrial Area is still zoned I-1, and Storage Warehouse is an approved use.

[jollyburger]

The proposed changes to the West 2nd I-1C side also specifically restrict mini-storage too.

Back in 2004:

Existing Situation: Staff recently encountered a situation involving a property zoned IC-1 (Industrial District) located in the Burrard Slopes neighbourhood for which an outright development permit was issued to allow for the construction of a 4-storey warehouse (mini-storage) with ancillary office use. Construction is now underway, and staff have received numerous complaints from adjacent property owners about the building's high, blank fortress-like concrete walls and the lack of sensitivity to the streetscape which has a variety of mixed-use, small frontages and ground floor office and showroom commercial uses in the area.

- 3 -

The Zoning and Development By-law does not define or list Mini-Storage Warehouse as a separate use. Since the concerns raised about the above-noted development application, staff have used Section 3.2.Z of the "Use" sections in the applicable district schedules, which means that any development application involving a Mini-Storage Warehouse is considered to be "similar to" a Storage Warehouse, and therefore, is a conditional use.

With more and more new, multi-residential developments occurring across the city, there appears to be an increasing demand for mini-storage warehouses. These mini-storage warehouses provide opportunities for individuals to rent, or lease, separate self-storage units within a larger building and store their personal effects, in relative close proximity to their residences. Most of these mini-storage warehouses are large, box-like structures, and currently there are no guidelines to assist staff in the assessment of these proposals which, depending on their location, may require a more sensitive urban design response to achieve a compatible form of development with adjacent properties.

Proposed Use: In anticipation of other proposals for mini-storage warehouses, this report
recommends that Mini-Storage Warehouse be listed and defined as a separate use in the Zoning and Development By-law and permitted as a conditional approval use not only in the IC-1 and IC-2 Districts but also in the other industrial, commercial and historic districts that currently allow Storage Warehouse either as an outright or conditional use.

https://council.vancouver.ca/20040325/ph3.htm

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Great, because God knows every condo being built in that area will have plenty of room to store people's things.

Self storage is a sign you have too much shit.

[WarrenC12]

Is self storage that profitable? I can't believe developers would consider it above condo or office space in that area. It's certainly boring at street level, but that could be fixed if they forced retail at the ground level or something.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The proposed changes to the West 2nd I-1C side also specifically restrict mini-storage too.]

Mini storage is 'restricted' in I-C1 only in the sense that they're conditional rather than outright. They can still be developed there. That zone allowed limited residential use, although that has been changed since 2004 and is now more restricted than it was. As a result there are a few residential buildings in the area, hence the complaints from residents (living in an industrial area) when a developer built a big 'storage warehouse'.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is self storage that profitable? I can't believe developers would consider it above condo or office space in that area. It's certainly boring at street level, but that could be fixed if they forced retail at the ground level or something.

Well it's like $155 a month for a 5x5 heated unit and with a warehouse with around 50K sq feet of space.. Unless you're going to build condos or something more high value it seems to be a good cashflow for a long-term investor like Larco. I think they were able to build in 126K square feet of mini-storage into the basement of their new Capilano condos.

https://www.dnv.org/2035-fullerton-avenue-development

Big self-storage players muscle out mom-and-pop firms

Still, a new self-storage facility can churn an ongoing capitalization rate average of 6.27 per cent to 8.7 per cent, which is higher than most commercial real estate, Cushman & Wakefield estimates.

https://www.nsnews.com/real-estate-news/...ers-muscle-out-mom-and-pop-firms-3100147

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I believe it's owned by Larco.

Yes, that's it, thanks.

[Feathered Friend]

https://shapeyourcity.ca/1885-e-pender-st

May 18th, 2021 Public Hearing – Local Retail Resurgence Hopes To Fill Vancouver’s Community Hearts

Public Hearing – May 18th, 2021
Over the last couple years, public hearings in Vancouver have gained a reputation for being long, drawn out affairs that often last multiple nights. That said, Hannah and I are pretty confident this one won’t continue that pattern, especially since we noticed its backup date on Thursday has been cancelled. Then again, Item #1 proves some people just like hearing themselves speak, as it’s hard to understand why else city council insists on personally reviewing townhomes along the Cambie Corridor.

Conversely, Item #2 could be one of the last six floor, non-profit social housing buildings they’ll ever examine thanks to a recent baby-step like decision, which came too late for this project. Going forward, these non-profit mid-rise buildings will be allowed to skip the rezoning process, albeit in limited multi-family zoned areas of Vancouver. It’s also inspired Councillor Boyle who has put forward a motion which, under the right conditions, could allow some to reach up to 12 floors.

Item #3 shifts to the other side of the spectrum, as this six floor strata mid-rise is located on Grandview-Woodland’s southern edge. That also means it should go unnoticed, not because it’s near the Commercial-Broadway SkyTrain station, but rather since most opposition is focused on the Safeway “mega-towers.” Ironically, even the highest point envisioned there will be only half the size of the tallest buildings planned at Burnaby’s transit stations, but that’s a subject for a different night.

However, pushing commuters out to the suburbs has consequences, and is literally driving most of the opposition to Items 4 and 5, both of which are in Marpole. They seek to strengthen their respective retail centres on Oak, and Granville, with a mix of new stores, a floor of office space, and some strata homes above. That’s proven a recipe for success in this community, and their combined multi-million dollar amenity contributions should ensure this night also ends quietly.

Backlash Expectations

Item 2 – 1885 East Pender Street – Very Low
This is almost a formality, as the existing rules in this area now allow projects like this one

Item 3 – 1650 East 12th Avenue – Very Low
Those opposed to tall buildings have bigger concerns, but city staff have still asked for some cutbacks

Item 4 – 8257-8273 Oak Street & 1025-1035 67th Avenue – Very Low
In 2017, only two people opposed the approval of a proposal across the road from this one

Item 5 – 8655 Granville – Very Low
A project one block to the north of this one drew no speakers when it was approved in 2018

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2021/05/17...pes-to-fill-vancouvers-community-hearts/

[Feathered Friend]

https://vancouver.ca/docs/council/part20210412ag-2.pdf

This moderate income rental building at Broadway & Alma isn’t the only thing that’s evolved in Vancouver. It’s responsiveness, & cooperation with the surrounding community saw it win unanimous support yesterday from both public speakers, & the Development Permit Board.

The expectation was these “much needed” homes would reduce commutes to UBC, respond to the climate crisis, & support West Point Grey’s struggling small businesses. While construction should start this summer, it’ll be at least 2 more years before that vision becomes a reality.

https://twitter.com/City_Duo/status/1394790917949714432?s=20

[rofina]

"Develop new evaluative frameworks that include social equity."

What the f*ck does that even mean? Social equity?

So its the developers job to ensure;

“fairness to access livelihood, education and full participation in the political and cultural life of the community as well as self-determination in meeting fundamental needs.”

I need to quit reading these threads, they just give me high blood pressure.

[s211]

Originally Posted by rofina

"Develop new evaluative frameworks that include social equity."

What the f*ck does that even mean? Social equity?

I think it means lowering the bar for everybody.