VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Greyhound shutting down all bus service in Canada. The company will however continue to operate its cross-border routes to the few Canadian cities with such connections.

I wonder if Via has enough rolling stock to add service.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I wonder if Via has enough rolling stock to add service.

The coming fleet has enough additional room. Doesn't enter service till next year though.

That said a bus every two hours is pretty easy to absorb.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The coming fleet has enough additional room. Doesn't enter service till next year though.

That said a bus every two hours is pretty easy to absorb.

Not in the coming fleet, but what they have now.

Do they have enough to add another train to the Corridor routes that the bus ran on?
Do they have enough to make all non dailies into dailies?
Do they have enough to bring dailies on other major routes?

In other words, could Via expand to meet the needs of the loss of the bus service without just ignoring it?

[MolsonExport]

I am so tired of the life-support version of Via that is currently being peddled. I live in the heart of the corridor and the frequency/speed of the service has been declining for decades, despite very rapid population growth. Time to go big or go home. Let's have a passenger rail service that, if it can't be anywhere nearly as good as those found in Asia and Europe, at least reach the level found in Australia (where it is far, far better, despite having an even lower population density than Canada, and having cities even more spread out across their continental landmass than Canada).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

In other words, could Via expand to meet the needs of the loss of the bus service without just ignoring it?

If only there was some kind of professional who works in VIA planning and occasionally frequents these forums that we could ask....

I honestly don't think it would be that difficult for VIA to absorb the passengers. And ridership isn't likely to fully rebound anyway before they start putting the Chargers into service. How much they can tighten up the schedule is another matter. That comes down to the freight networks.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am so tired of the life-support version of Via that is currently being peddled. I live in the heart of the corridor and the frequency/speed of the service has been declining for decades, despite very rapid population growth. Time to go big or go home. Let's have a passenger rail service that, if it can't be anywhere nearly as good as those found in Asia and Europe, at least reach the level found in Australia (where it is far, far better, despite having an even lower population density than Canada, and having cities even more spread out across their continental landmass than Canada).

I'm with you. Unfortunately most of Canada isn't with us.

I can understand why investing in the Canadian or the Ocean might be difficult. But not having decent passenger service along a corridor with 2/3rds of country's population with both congested highways and airways is just nuts.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm with you. Unfortunately most of Canada isn't with us.

I can understand why investing in the Canadian or the Ocean might be difficult. But not having decent passenger service along a corridor with 2/3rds of country's population with both congested highways and airways is just nuts.

The Canadian is an extremely long train. In Vancouver it cant fit in the station and they to split in half and back it into two different tracks. They could easily split the train in half and run it the frequently. They may need a few extra dinning cars etc.

[MolsonExport]

Does anyone take the Canadian for utilitarian (transportation) needs? Anyone? (maybe a few that are afraid of flying). It is insanely slow, and much more expensive.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Does anyone take the Canadian for utilitarian (transportation) needs? Anyone? (maybe a few that are afraid of flying). It is insanely slow, and much more expensive.

The only time I could see myself taking The Canadian is to visit my friends in Sudbury, but even then that's just because The Northlander's gone.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Does anyone take the Canadian for utilitarian (transportation) needs? Anyone? (maybe a few that are afraid of flying). It is insanely slow, and much more expensive.

I've never taken it, but I've heard of people taking it into Northern Ontario for recreation. There are some backcountry areas accessed for hunting, fishing and such that can only be accessed by train.

[WarrenC12]

I love the idea of taking the train, but in practice, ugh.

Here in Vancouver, the bus and train leave from the same spot to Seattle. The train is both more expensive, and slower. Quite the value proposition!

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I wonder if Via has enough rolling stock to add service.

The ridership on the routes greyhound shut wasn't enough to justify buses. So they definitely won't justify trains, if the routes even overlap.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Does anyone take the Canadian for utilitarian (transportation) needs? Anyone? (maybe a few that are afraid of flying). It is insanely slow, and much more expensive.

Coach cars: yes. Mainly people from small towns along the route for whom it's at least somewhat convenient... especially in the more remote areas. The rest are tourists (bad idea riding in the coach for more than 1 night though), CN pass holders travelling for free, and CanRailPass holders travelling at a steep discount.

Sleeping cars: no. It's mainly people doing the land-cruise thing.

[Aylmer]

When the schedule lines up and I have the time, I prefer to take a sleeper when travelling west or east. Like a wedding in Halifax, a conference in Vancouver, or visiting my in-laws in Winnipeg. With the discount tickets, it's only a little bit more expensive than flying (say, $350 from Winnipeg instead of a $250 flight). It's unquestionably more luxurious to be wined and dined for two days than being shuffled and stuffed into a regional jet for two hours. Instead of ending the trip dreading the trip home, it becomes something to look forward to in itself. So when time isn't of the essence, I prefer the train.

I'd do it more often if the schedule were daily - I don't mind taking an extra day or two to travel, but I'm hard-pressed to rejig my whole week around it to make a twice-weekly departure.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The ridership on the routes greyhound shut wasn't enough to justify buses. So they definitely won't justify trains, if the routes even overlap.

Some routes did much better than others. For example up until COVID there was hourly service on the Ottawa-Montreal express route. I suspect it was the frequency of service (VIA only has 5 trains a day on weekdays and fewer on weekend) that made it popular.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I honestly don't think it would be that difficult for VIA to absorb the passengers. And ridership isn't likely to fully rebound anyway before they start putting the Chargers into service.

Agreed. Adding an extra coach to trains on certain key routes would likely absorb the demand on the routes that parallel VIA's service. It is the routes that run where there are no trains (or tracks) that VIA can't be of much help.

In reality though, I think many if not most of the routes Greyhound has canceled will be picked up by other operators. For example:

The buses to Sudbury, Owen Sounds and between Pembroke & Peterborough will likely be picked up by Ontario Northland.

The main corridor bus routes will likely be picked up by some combination of megabus and Orleans Express.

Some of the more commuter oriented bus routes around Toronto may be picked up by GO.

Because of COVID, there is lots of time for all this to be figured out. Don't forget Greyhound (unlike their competitors) hasn't operated any of these routes for the past year.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

How much they can tighten up the schedule is another matter. That comes down to the freight networks.

And that is the kicker. What VIA really needs is more trains per day on the corridor, but there is limited capacity on CN's network.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

The only time I could see myself taking The Canadian is to visit my friends in Sudbury, but even then that's just because The Northlander's gone.

But the Northlander never went to Sudbury.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am so tired of the life-support version of Via that is currently being peddled. I live in the heart of the corridor and the frequency/speed of the service has been declining for decades, despite very rapid population growth. Time to go big or go home. Let's have a passenger rail service that, if it can't be anywhere nearly as good as those found in Asia and Europe, at least reach the level found in Australia (where it is far, far better, despite having an even lower population density than Canada, and having cities even more spread out across their continental landmass than Canada).

Not sure if our Corridor services are worse than Australia's. I think Sydney-Melbourne services are only twice a day and it takes about 11 hours to cover the 550 mi distance. They have better rolling stock though which in theory are capable of true high speed service. Definitely need to implement true high-speed on Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal, even using the rather dated but reliable InterCity 125 stock from British Rail. To be truly competitive Toronto-Montreal needs to achieve at least 3 1/2 hours, or the same rail average speed as the 400 mi on London-Edinburgh.

Not sure if the capital cost outlay is justifiable or politically acceptable in this country to get a system that would result in speeds achieved on French or Spainish railways, the 400 mile journey from Madrid to Barcelona takes just 2 1/2 hours.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by roger1818

But the Northlander never went to Sudbury.

And only if you can get a sleeper, definitely if you're doing a longer journey than say Winnipeg-Edmonton. And they are expensive.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

When the schedule lines up and I have the time, I prefer to take a sleeper when travelling west or east. Like a wedding in Halifax, a conference in Vancouver, or visiting my in-laws in Winnipeg. With the discount tickets, it's only a little bit more expensive than flying (say, $350 from Winnipeg instead of a $250 flight). It's unquestionably more luxurious to be wined and dined for two days than being shuffled and stuffed into a regional jet for two hours. Instead of ending the trip dreading the trip home, it becomes something to look forward to in itself. So when time isn't of the essence, I prefer the train.

I'd do it more often if the schedule were daily - I don't mind taking an extra day or two to travel, but I'm hard-pressed to rejig my whole week around it to make a twice-weekly departure.

I've taken the train quite a few times over the years but I have never seen a Toronto-Winnipeg sleeping car fare for $350... I mean, I don't deny it's possible that there was a dead of winter seat sale at that price, but it would be extremely unusual, like finding a $499 airfare to Tokyo or some such.

I plugged in a random date in October and the one-way Toronto-Winnipeg bedroom for one (aka roomette) discount fare is $1,043 which includes some very tasty meals. That's more in line with what I'd expect. It's a pleasant experience but the high cost and long travel time has to limit its appeal.

The lowest one-way coach fare is $229, but sitting in an upright seat with no privacy for the 35 hour one way trip (assuming it's on time) can be a bit of an endurance test.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by roger1818

But the Northlander never went to Sudbury.

It didn't? Damn. It's been a while.

Yeah now that I'm looking at it the route to Sudbury is one of the proposals.