West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Soi-Fon

Hang the fork up, is that a proposed building or a land development idea? On that lot? In Gatineau?

Part of Zibi, in like 20 years.

[Soi-Fon]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Part of Zibi, in like 20 years.

Aw crap. We'll all be dead by then due to the Claridge and the Jim Watson variants. Well, a poor soul can still dream

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just got this in an email from STO. Have not looked at it yet.

http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=892&L=en

May 12, 2021
Update - Announcement of the optimal solution for the dedicated public transit system

The comparative analysis of the different scenarios under study found that the optimal dedicated public transit solution between Gatineau's west end and the Gatineau and Ottawa downtowns is the all-tram scenario, with a tunnel under Sparks Street in downtown Ottawa. This scenario is the one that best meets the needs identified and detailed in the complementary study.

In the event that the tunnel option proves unfeasible (due to cost or technical issues), the optimal solution would be the all-tram scenario with integration at-grade on Wellington in downtown Ottawa. Further details on these two options will be provided in the subsequent pre-project phase.

On the Quebec side, the dedicated public transit system will use chemin d'Aylmer and boulevard Alexandre-Taché in the south (between UQO and the Ottawa River), and boulevard du Plateau in the north.

Now that the route, technology and costs are known, detailed analyses will be conducted over the next few months for the pre-project phases, including the preliminary design of the project, the environmental assessment, the calls for proposals and certain preparatory technical service elements.

The public consultation process will continue in order to update and consult residents and stakeholders about certain aspects that will be highlighted during the pre-project phase.

For additional details, consult the route outline and the technical briefing presentation.

[rocketphish]

Gatineau tramway study prefers tunnelling under Sparks Street to bring trains into Ottawa

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: May 13, 2021 • 3 hours ago • 2 minute read



A tunnel under Sparks Street is the best way to run a Gatineau-based tramway into the heart of the nation’s capital, a study recommends.

But the costs and risks of digging another transit tunnel in Ottawa’s core could convince the City of Gatineau, and ultimately the federal government, that building the tramway on the surface of Wellington Street is what’s affordable.

The Société de transport de l’Outaouais on Wednesday released the recommendation from its consultant WSP to build a full tram system in the west end of Gatineau, rather than a hybrid system that would include buses.

The “optimal route” for the tramway would have a westernmost terminus around Chemin Eardley and Boulevard des Allumettières. Another winding corridor to the north would have a tramway terminus at Boulevard des Allumettières and Chemin Vanier. The two segments would joint at Chemin d’Aylmer and Boulevard Saint-Raymond and one tramway corridor would run east and across the Portage Bridge into Ottawa.

The Ottawa-based corridor will be under close scrutiny.

WSP says the Sparks Street tunnel, which would put the total project cost somewhere between $3.5 billion and $3.9 billion, is “the most effective solution.”

The Wellington Street surface option to Elgin Street, which WSP still allows as a “valid option,” would put the project cost at just over $3 billion.

The federal government, as one of the main funders of the project, would need to consider if a tunnel is worth up to nearly $1 billion more in taxpayer funds. The Quebec government would also be tapped for construction money.

Meanwhile, the feds have recently taken a keen interest in interprovincial transit, potentially making the Sparks Street tunnel option less viable in a bigger picture.

The National Capital Commission has been tasked with studying a tramway loop between Gatineau and Ottawa. Gatineau’s proposed interprovincial tramway would be the jumping off point for that analysis.

The NCC board has indicated its preference for the tramway to run on Wellington Street. Ottawa city council, however, has declared the Sparks Street tunnel as the optimal option.

The City of Gatineau could also have some big decisions when it comes to the future of car traffic in the area of Hull where the tramway is proposed to run.

WSP concluded that integrating the tramway with traffic “is not viable” on Rue Laurier, and the consultant suggested the viable option is removing traffic between Rue Eddy and either Rue Laval or the Portage Bridge.

A new transit system is required in Gatineau to meet transportation needs through 2051. The city’s population is projected to grow by 26 per cent in that time, with a rate of growth even higher in the west end.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...parks-street-to-bring-trains-into-ottawa

[passwordisnt123]

Anybody want to take bets now on what is going to end up happening?

*Wellington surface?
*Sparks tunnel?
*nothing gets built/another quarter century of studies?
*something else?

Personally I'd put the likelihood at 45% Sparks tunnel, 35% Wellington, 15% nothing, 5% something else.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Anybody want to take bets now on what is going to end up happening?

*Wellington surface?
*Sparks tunnel?
*nothing gets built/another quarter century of studies?
*something else?

Personally I'd put the likelihood at 45% Sparks tunnel, 35% Wellington, 15% nothing, 5% something else.

• 50% nothing will happen. Either the new Gatineau City Council cancels the project, the Feds drag their feet or the Cons get elected;
• 40% Wellington surface. That's the preferred option for the NCC and the Feds, and at the end of the day, it's their decision;
• 9% Sparks tunnel. Preferred option by both municipalities, but no one has the foresight to build the tunnel in a way that would maintain an integrated loop as an option, deeply compromising future capacity;
• 1% Someone at the Feds is smart enough to propose a tunnel that allows for the loop as well by surfacing the tram past Bank or Elgin.

[J.OT13]

Good on Jon Willing for covering the Gatineau tram in detail. CBC and CTV often pretend like Gatineau doesn't exist. When the tram is covered, they focus exclusively on the short Ottawa portion. They don't realize that Aylmer has a large anglophone population?

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

• 50% nothing will happen. Either the new Gatineau City Council cancels the project, the Feds drag their feet or the Cons get elected;
• 40% Wellington surface. That's the preferred option for the NCC and the Feds, and at the end of the day, it's their decision;
• 9% Sparks tunnel. Preferred option by both municipalities, but no one has the foresight to build the tunnel in a way that would maintain an integrated loop as an option, deeply compromising future capacity;
• 1% Someone at the Feds is smart enough to propose a tunnel that allows for the loop as well by surfacing the tram past Bank or Elgin.

Oof. I thought I was cynical

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Good on Jon Willing for covering the Gatineau tram in detail. CBC and CTV often pretend like Gatineau doesn't exist. When the tram is covered, they focus exclusively on the short Ottawa portion. They don't realize that Aylmer has a large anglophone population?

It's not really that one media covers us satisfactorily and the others don't. None of them cover Outaouais stories consistently, unless it's for crime or maybe someone not getting served in English somewhere.

This time it's the Citizen providing good coverage but other times they can have us on ignore and it's the CBC that talks about our issues.

It really depends.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's not really that one media covers us satisfactorily and the others don't. None of them cover Outaouais stories consistently, unless it's for crime or maybe someone not getting served in English somewhere.

This time it's the Citizen providing good coverage but other times they can have us on ignore and it's the CBC that talks about our issues.

It really depends.

That's why I watch Le Téléjournal and subscribe to Le Droit. That way, I don't miss anything.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

WSP says the Sparks Street tunnel, which would put the total project cost somewhere between $3.5 billion and $3.9 billion, is “the most effective solution.”

The Wellington Street surface option to Elgin Street, which WSP still allows as a “valid option,” would put the project cost at just over $3 billion.

I'm surprised the difference in estimated cost between the Sparks Street tunnel and the Wellington Street surface options is so small. I really hope someone finds a way to do both the tunnel and the loop as they don't need to be mutually exclusive.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's why I watch Le Téléjournal and subscribe to Le Droit. That way, I don't miss anything.

In fairness, the francophone media in the region don't always have the best coverage of Ottawa matters. This is even true of the French CBC (all stations based in Ottawa) and LeDroit (which was based in Ottawa until fairly recently).

It's a frequent complaint of the Franco-Ontarian community.

I find that when the francophone media cover Ottawa, it often feels like it's from the perspective of a place where Gatineau people go to work and play.

For example there is a lot of francophone media focus on downtown Ottawa, which happens to be the closest part of Ottawa to Gatineau (and where Gatinois tend to venture) but very, very little local news in French about Orleans, which is the biggest francophone concentration in the city and where much of its community life in French is happening these days.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I'm surprised the difference in estimated cost between the Sparks Street tunnel and the Wellington Street surface options is so small. I really hope someone finds a way to do both the tunnel and the loop as they don't need to be mutually exclusive.

We could have had the O-train run above ground through the downtown. It was decided that we did not want that, so we built a tunnel. Why would we want to undo that with a STO train running on the surface downtown, Wellington or elsewhere? It seems silly to build a tunnel to aviod surface rail and then put surface rail downtown anyway.

What happened with the idea of extending the Trillium line across the river and meeting up with the STO there? It probably would be less expensive than having the STO cross the river and build a tunnel or Loop in Ottawa.Plus, it would work.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

We could have had the O-train run above ground through the downtown. It was decided that we did not want that, so we built a tunnel. Why would we want to undo that with a STO train running on the surface downtown, Wellington or elsewhere? It seems silly to build a tunnel to aviod surface rail and then put surface rail downtown anyway.

While I understand the sentiment, you also have to understand that we didn't build a tunnel downtown because we didn't want surface trains but because a surface train downtown wouldn't have the capacity to handle the projected demand of the Confederation Line. Ridership from Gatineau to Ottawa is (and will be for the foreseeable future) significantly lower than the pre-COVID ridership on the Confederation line.

What happened with the idea of extending the Trillium line across the river and meeting up with the STO there? It probably would be less expensive than having the STO cross the river and build a tunnel or Loop in Ottawa.Plus, it would work.

The big problem is how to get the STO riders from Bayview to downtown without burdening the Confederation line with riders who OC Transpo isn't receiving any revenue from. The reciprocal fare agreement only works because:

1. A minority of riders are traveling across the river actually transferring,
2. Most of those who are transferring are traveling in a contraflow direction, so the buses/trains aren't full anyway, and
3. There is a reasonably balanced quid pro quo (a similar number of OC Transpo passengers transfer to STO as STO passenger transferring to OC Transpo).

Having a majority of riders transfer with the flow of traffic would break the model.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

What happened with the idea of extending the Trillium line across the river and meeting up with the STO there? It probably would be less expensive than having the STO cross the river and build a tunnel or Loop in Ottawa.Plus, it would work.

This option has been beaten to death on here and (most importantly) certainly by the people who've carried out all of these studies and made these decisions.

It's been ruled out for numerous reasons.

It would be a good idea for a subsequent stage of regional rail transit building, but not as the backbone of the system between Gatineau and Ottawa. Which is what the first stage needs to be.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

• 9% Sparks tunnel. Preferred option by both municipalities, but no one has the foresight to build the tunnel in a way that would maintain an integrated loop as an option, deeply compromising future capacity;

I have to admit I'm a bit confused by the capacity argument for the loop. Wouldn't higher capacity with the loop configuration only make sense if the 2 different tram branches entered the loop from completely separate entry points? Otherwise the section of the tram ROW where both branches converge (between Saint-Raymond and Portage) would dictate the max frequency and capacity for the rest of the system, thereby neutralizing the added capacity of the loop, would it not?

Unless we're talking about the tram branches both using a single track of the loop (e.g., counterclockwise track) and a separate loop-only service using the other track (e.g., clockwise track).

There maybe something I'm not considering here and I apologize if that's the case.

[J.OT13]

Both branches using a single track of the loop is one possibility. Mostly, I'm referring to built-in capacity the loop offers for when the RapiBus is converted to rail in the future. We'll then have three branches. If all if them only use Portage, that limits the through-put to 20 or 30 trains an hour, whatever it may be. With the loop, we double the number of trains that cross the river.

The loop won't help capacity on the branches, but will through the downtown.

We may not need the loop today, but that extra bridge and capacity will be needed once the RapidBus becomes the third tram line.

I hope this helps.

[J.OT13]

Worth noting that the RapiBus Line will need to come into the loop using its RoW. It can't interline at UQO, otherwise the capacity argument becomes moot by maxing out capacity between UQO and Portage.

[Hybrid247]

Oh I see now. The western branches (Aylmer and Le Plateau) would share a single track of the loop while the eastern branch (rapibus) would use the other loop track and not interline at all with the other 2 branches. Gotchya

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

• 50% nothing will happen. Either the new Gatineau City Council cancels the project, the Feds drag their feet or the Cons get elected;
• 40% Wellington surface. That's the preferred option for the NCC and the Feds, and at the end of the day, it's their decision;
• 9% Sparks tunnel. Preferred option by both municipalities, but no one has the foresight to build the tunnel in a way that would maintain an integrated loop as an option, deeply compromising future capacity;
• 1% Someone at the Feds is smart enough to propose a tunnel that allows for the loop as well by surfacing the tram past Bank or Elgin.

I’d guess somewhere between your two extremes. I think you both underestimate a new option. A lot of West Quebec decisions are head scratchers but this whole project seems like way overkill to serve a very small part or an already small city. Busses work fine.

With the tunnel option is there a project in North America or even the world that is more expensive per projected passenger and projected ton of carbon removed?

Ottawa’s tunnel plan was already iffy but this is mind blowing. I mean in one way it’s good to see. 10 or even 5 years ago this kind of money wasn’t available in Toronto for projects with probably 10 times the ridership. We are entering a. Ice phase of transit development. Given how much we have spent on Covid support it seems like a drop in the bucket.