Halifax Active Transportation

[The Crow Whisperer]

More barmy economic "theories" from our educated middle class revolutionaries: "look guys if we force you out of your cars and onto bicycles it's for your own good, the economy will increase because you won't have to spend money on your car!" With the same logic, if we force everybody out of the cities at gunpoint and into the countryside, then agricultural production will increase; that's what the Khmer Rouge believed, their leaders were also highly-educated Marxists from Paris universities.

And the line about how cyclists spend more time browsing shop windows because cycles drive past the window slowly whereas cars drive by fast, jeez you guys.

I like the Portland State University study that PLANIFAX uses in their brochures, about how cyclists spend 5 times more money in a shop than car drivers on average, yes by all means let's just pull made up numbers out of the clouds.

I never see ANYBODY use the Windsor street bike lane, not one human being, and I am there frequently. I used to see cars parked in that bike lane, to patrons of the businesses. Those patrons are not now on bicycles, they are simply having to park in the residential side streets, causing nuisance to those home owners: car doors slamming, engines starting, and potentially running the risk of hitting a kid playing in street. I thought this is supposed to be traffic calming but when you force traffc into residential neighboroods that is the opposite effect.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

I never see ANYBODY use the Windsor street bike lane, not one human being, and I am there frequently.

Found this in less than 60 seconds… Unless Google Street View is some “Great Conspiracy”.



It’s funny to be accused of communism even when promoting entrepreneurialism.

[The Crow Whisperer]

Congratulations Haligonian in Exile you found one human being using the bike lane, that was worth losing all the 100's of on-street parking spots for a major business district? I can also use Google street view and find pictures of cars using the on-street parking before the bike lane stole it. Those patrons are not now switching to bikes they are parking on the side streets.

[The Crow Whisperer]

What has the Windsor St bikelane accomplished, other than pushing cars into the residential side streets?

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

Congratulations Haligonian in Exile you found one human being using the bike lane, that was worth losing all the 100's of on-street parking spots for a major business district? I can also use Google street view and find pictures of cars using the on-street parking before the bike lane stole it. Those patrons are not now switching to bikes they are parking on the side streets.

...Windsor St is a major business district?

Yeah, no. It's not. It's a narrow street to begin with, parking didn't work on it at all, especially with snow banks.

[The Crow Whisperer]

It is a major business district for Halifax, and the businesses on Windsor Street were BEGGING the city not to take away their on-street parking for the bike lane, but the powers-that-be made it abundantly clear that they do not care about anything except ramming down our throats this radical agenda "come hell or high water," in Mayor Savage's own words. Reaction mixed to news of Windsor Street bike lane

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

It is a major business district for Halifax, and the businesses on Windsor Street were BEGGING the city not to take away their on-street parking for the bike lane, but the powers-that-be made it abundantly clear that they do not care about anything except ramming down our throats this radical agenda "come hell or high water," in Mayor Savage's own words. Reaction mixed to news of Windsor Street bike lane

Of the three business owners quoted in that story, only one was ardently against the lane. Two of three are still there and doing fine (the bookstore closed, but that had to do with the pandemic and the owner's age).

Meanwhile, this little stretch has become a busier little neighbourhood business node.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

Congratulations Haligonian in Exile you found one human being using the bike lane, that was worth losing all the 100's of on-street parking spots for a major business district? I can also use Google street view and find pictures of cars using the on-street parking before the bike lane stole it. Those patrons are not now switching to bikes they are parking on the side streets.

When I used to get my haircuts on Windsor street, I had no problem using side streets anyway. Even on Agricola I preferred using side streets because it avoided the stress of parking on a busy thoroughfare. I would have to ask business owners themselves about what they think. If we really want to know, we should be doing studies here instead of just citing studies elsewhere, but so far the results from other places have been fairly consistent. Perhaps you would prefer we don’t do studies here.

[Nouvellecosse]

It's always unfortunate when there are changes occurring in an area that bother locals (and anything unfamiliar will always bother someone), but the fact remains that public streets - particularly through streets that act as transportation corridors - are the domain of all rather than just local residents and businesses. While their views should be heard and considered, it's up to officials to plan based on what's best in the bigger picture.

But of course we all know the anti-cycling activists would be just as ardently opposed to any new bike lanes even if all local business owners were begging for them. The business owners would just get slandered as yuppie elites, the same as anyone else who supports active transportation, when in reality, cars and their related infrastructure are much costlier.

[Dartguard]

rolleyes

"even if all local business owners were begging for them. " I guess this point you have added is the crux of the Crows argument. Have ANY business owners other than those directly selling to the bike market asked for these lanes?

I get the impression that The cycling coalition have handed a feel good, virtue signaling, "progressive" project to the city councilors. They have been very politically astute in advocating for their point of view with the likelihood of little pushback or rebuttal as City politics has relatively little direct involvement in peoples lives.

Trudeau's upcoming Carbon taxes and Health care stress will directly impact peoples lives in more direct ways. A better delivered Transit system looking out at, say a fifty year investment, will serve far more than as the Crow says the 1 % of folks that ride bikes. I as a car driver prefer that method of transportation as I need it to earn my living all over Atlantic Canada. The problem I have been having with the 1% is that my personal interactions have coloured them as just friggin entitled Assholes. My definite red line is a 7 Million dollar Bike bridge from the Macdonald. City council will have truly and completely jumped the Shark with that choice.

[mleblanc]

As funny as some of these comments are, and although I doubt my perspective means much for those seeming so mad about this issue, my take is that:
1. I don't cycle. Never have as transport. I actually drive a lot for work through the HRM.
2. Bicycles are annoying on the streets.
3. When they have bike lanes and are not blocking me from going more than 15 km/m on the narrow Halifax streets, I'm very happy.

This busy "Windsor St. Business District" does not impact parking on sides streets much, it's really not hard to walk the ~30 seconds I've had on average to your destination. We're talking about streets that never should have had parking in the first place.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

rolleyes

"even if all local business owners were begging for them. " I guess this point you have added is the crux of the Crows argument. Have ANY business owners other than those directly selling to the bike market asked for these lanes?

I''m sorry, but what is the argument exactly? Surely it isn't that one small minority of the population such as business owners on a particular street should get to dictate the region's transportation planning strategy? How could anyone suggest that while simultaneously complaining that people who cycle should be ignored due to being too small in numbers?

Originally Posted by Dartguard

I get the impression that The cycling coalition have handed a feel good, virtue signaling, "progressive" project to the city councilors. They have been very politically astute in advocating for their point of view with the likelihood of little pushback or rebuttal as City politics has relatively little direct involvement in peoples lives.

Trudeau's upcoming Carbon taxes and Health care stress will directly impact peoples lives in more direct ways. A better delivered Transit system looking out at, say a fifty year investment, will serve far more than as the Crow says the 1 % of folks that ride bikes. I as a car driver prefer that method of transportation as I need it to earn my living all over Atlantic Canada. The problem I have been having with the 1% is that my personal interactions have coloured them as just friggin entitled Assholes. My definite red line is a 7 Million dollar Bike bridge from the Macdonald. City council will have truly and completely jumped the Shark with that choice.

I think there are some excellent points there. I agree that public transit should get far more funding than active transportation (as it already does) since that will likely always serve far more people. If we're to reduce auto dependence by better funding alternatives, doubling transit usage would put it at 25-30% of mode share while doubling cycling would still leave it in the single digits. So I'd happily support funding each at those respective proportions.

The only thing I would object to is making transportation planning about one's perceptions of the people who hold different stances rather than the positions themselves. That tends to not be a great idea with politics in general because it injects unnecessary emotion and distracts from the actual issues.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

As funny as some of these comments are, and although I doubt my perspective means much for those seeming so mad about this issue, my take is that:
1. I don't cycle. Never have as transport. I actually drive a lot for work through the HRM.
2. Bicycles are annoying on the streets.
3. When they have bike lanes and are not blocking me from going more than 15 km/m on the narrow Halifax streets, I'm very happy.

This busy "Windsor St. Business District" does not impact parking on sides streets much, it's really not hard to walk the ~30 seconds I've had on average to your destination. We're talking about streets that never should have had parking in the first place.

This is an excellent point as well. We often hear the thoroughly debunked talking point of "Well cyclists can just use the same road space as cars". Setting aside that it's hypocritical if they don't take the same stance on sidewalks since it's also possible to walk on a road that lacks them, but it completely ignores that cars and bikes travel at different speeds so the cars either need a way to pass, or travel at the same speed as the bikes.

Of course in reality, the purpose of opposing bike lanes isn't to encourage cycling in mixed traffic but rather to discourage anyone from using bikes at all or to punish anyone using them because they dislike anyone using a bike as person.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

As funny as some of these comments are, and although I doubt my perspective means much for those seeming so mad about this issue, my take is that:
1. I don't cycle. Never have as transport. I actually drive a lot for work through the HRM.
2. Bicycles are annoying on the streets.
3. When they have bike lanes and are not blocking me from going more than 15 km/m on the narrow Halifax streets, I'm very happy.

This busy "Windsor St. Business District" does not impact parking on sides streets much, it's really not hard to walk the ~30 seconds I've had on average to your destination. We're talking about streets that never should have had parking in the first place.

Well said.

Sums it up for me pretty well. I'd like to ad that anytime I've gone to the Windsor Street area (usually to go to the Brooklyn Warehouse, for example), I wouldn't park on Windsor Street as, with parking, it was a narrowed street with high traffic volume - a pain in the ass to get in and out + risk of damage to my car. I'd park on the side streets anyhow, which I have always found to be fairly well used, and haven't heard any stories of crazed motorists 'hitting children' there (though I can't say I've seen a whole lot of children playing in the streets there - none, actually).

The bike lane has actually improved the street for motorists with all those annoying parked cars removed and replaced by a narrower bicycle lane. Plus, bikes are no longer having to maneuver around parked cars (and thus potentially darting in front of moving traffic) - a win for all as I do not want to injure or kill a vulnerable cyclist with my car.

There seems have been a shift on the internet, and in the world in general, in recent times. I don't have to point it out really, because I'm sure everybody has witnessed it. But there really does seem to be a group (or groups) of people who are incredibly paranoid that somebody is out to get them. In this case people seem to think that large organized groups of cycling enthusiasts are out to get anybody who drives a car and to make their lives miserable. And there seems to be an idea that somehow there is an underlying group of people with 'progressive' ideas who want to turn the free world into communist China, one step at a time... first they build bicycle lanes, then they will be coming to your house to remove your car and take it to the crusher - if you resist you will be taken to prison where you will have to ride a stationary bike with a generator hooked up to the power grid to pay for your crimes by contributing to the greater good...

I don't think... errr... I KNOW this isn't the case. It's not a conspiracy, the cyclists just want to have a way to safely ride their bikes through the city and not get killed. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask.

In the meantime, for the naysayers, these are only painted lines on the pavement for the most part - if years go by and nobody ever uses them, the painted lines can always be removed.

Relax, and try to enjoy your life a little - all this rage over some painted lines must be taking a toll on your health.

[The Crow Whisperer]

It is more than just painted lines. The govt is spending millions to build protected bike lanes, bike flyover ramps, bike shelters, traffic calming junk cluttering the streets for bikes making the city practically undrivable for cars, all to suck up to a tiny but very, very vocal group of entitled middle class revolutionaries in the north end.

[Corker]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

It is more than just painted lines. The govt is spending millions to build protected bike lanes, bike flyover ramps, bike shelters, traffic calming junk cluttering the streets for bikes making the city practically undrivable for cars, all to suck up to a tiny but very, very vocal group of entitled middle class revolutionaries in the north end.

I'm trying to keep up - I thought it was the government, the leftists, the cyclists and the elitist 1%ers we were decrying, but now you're saying it's also the entitled middle class? Please confirm.

There are some kids who play basketball on my street, should I shout at them for slowing traffic and cutting into the on-street parking too?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Well said.
The bike lane has actually improved the street for motorists with all those annoying parked cars removed and replaced by a narrower bicycle lane. Plus, bikes are no longer having to maneuver around parked cars (and thus potentially darting in front of moving traffic)

Particularly so since the Windsor St bike lane is almost never used.

There seems have been a shift on the internet, and in the world in general, in recent times. I don't have to point it out really, because I'm sure everybody has witnessed it. But there really does seem to be a group (or groups) of people who are incredibly paranoid that somebody is out to get them. In this case people seem to think that large organized groups of cycling enthusiasts are out to get anybody who drives a car and to make their lives miserable.

That's because it is true. All of this did not happen organically. Just imagine our HRM Council coming up with all of this cycling nonsense on their own. They cannot come up with anything that actually works, be it public transit or waste collection or a parking system for city streets. It was all packaged up for them and tied with a bow by activists from the HCC and EAC, who in turn took it all from the asinine Vision Zero movement which originally came out of Scandinavia IIRC. It was sold to them by HRM Planning staff who were indoctrinated with the same dogma at planning schools. Then add endorsement from the Feds by gifting gas tax revenues to municipalities to pay for it all and away it goes. All you need to do is look at the material posted by the HCC and other lobby groups demonizing motorists at every turn, and now the internal effort by HRPD to publicize every "stunting" and speeding ticket they hand out at carefully maintained speed traps like the one at the bottom of the 102 where it meets Bayers Rd or on the woefully speed-limited Circ to add to the image that motorists are all dangerously reckless miscreants who need to be reined in. Image eventually becomes fact in the minds of the public.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by The Crow Whisperer

It is more than just painted lines. The govt is spending millions to build protected bike lanes, bike flyover ramps, bike shelters, traffic calming junk cluttering the streets for bikes making the city practically undrivable for cars, all to suck up to a tiny but very, very vocal group of entitled middle class revolutionaries in the north end.

If you feel like Halifax is "undrivable" I really encourage you to visit almost anywhere else in the world. It's not some freeway-riddled sunbelt city exclusively oriented around moving cars as quickly as possible, but it's very car-friendly, in a global context. Note that "car-friendly" doesn't mean "nothing will ever impede or inconvenience a driver," it just means that it's pretty easy to get around by car.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's because it is true. All of this did not happen organically. Just imagine our HRM Council coming up with all of this cycling nonsense on their own. They cannot come up with anything that actually works, be it public transit or waste collection or a parking system for city streets. It was all packaged up for them and tied with a bow by activists from the HCC and EAC, who in turn took it all from the asinine Vision Zero movement which originally came out of Scandinavia IIRC. It was sold to them by HRM Planning staff who were indoctrinated with the same dogma at planning schools. Then add endorsement from the Feds by gifting gas tax revenues to municipalities to pay for it all and away it goes.

Beware the cult of Bikeanon, an offshoot of plan-ism! I’ve honestly never paid much attention to the HCC, and only visited their FB page after the complaints seen on here. I was greeted with extremist propaganda such as “look at this new trail” or “Let’s make cycling safe for all”.

Glad to see attention is being directed at the important problems:

Housing crisis:
COVID-19:
Bike lanes:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

If you feel like Halifax is "undrivable" I really encourage you to visit almost anywhere else in the world. It's not some freeway-riddled sunbelt city exclusively oriented around moving cars as quickly as possible, but it's very car-friendly, in a global context. Note that "car-friendly" doesn't mean "nothing will ever impede or inconvenience a driver," it just means that it's pretty easy to get around by car.

Agree. Halifax is a very easy city to drive in. I have to say that I am perplexed by the claim that these measures make it impossible to drive in Halifax, as I haven't found this to be the case.