Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[scryer]

Pulling the funding from the transit extension will be a huge blow to the NDP's reputation that generations will remember. This was a hot-button issue and a big reason why Langley and the surrounding SOF neighbourhoods actually voted these guys in.

They're more than welcome to cancel themselves if they'd like.

[dleung]

Yeah, but is this really what the region needs to build first?

2019 ridership on top 80 routes:


Projected ridership of UBC subway, vs chopping it at Arbutus




https://www.translink.ca/-/media/transli...9_01_24_technical_report_rail_to_ubc.pdf

[logicbomb]

You build for the future. Fleetwood, Cloverdale, Clayton Heights and Langley are the fastest growing regions in BC. You factor in development in Anniedale and you will see a massive increase in population as more people move out to the suburbs seeking affordable housing. Right now, residents either have the option of walking 20+ minutes or taking a bus to connect to the 502/503 to just get to a Skytrain or drive from point A to point B. Many elect to drive in these communities.

People forget that there was pretty much no need for the millennium line circa 2000.

Right now, there is explosive development along Fraser Highway and Langley has begun initial stages of approving towers and higher density development.

[Migrant_Coconut]

^ This. It's not like the West Side is supposed to double in population between now and 2050.

[officedweller]

Yup -
Growth-shaping vs growth-serving.
You can't expect existing high ridership where there's poor service.
Part of the growth-shaping is to guide growth to facilitate higher future transit share in those areas.
... and remember that SoF pays transit levies too

[Klazu]

The problem with any delay is also that all the area around future stations will get built with low density housing, so, once the trains finally arrive, there won't be significant enough demand without connecting bus lines. Driving along this corridor recently it sure didn't look like neither Surrey or Langley were holding back building on every vacant lot there is.

[rpvan]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Spoke to a planner today. There was confidence towards the end of 2020 of commitment from the provincial government but it now dounds like the provincial government has put this on the backburner. There was zero mention of this project in the recent budget. Sounds like the region will instead see billions of dollars go towards housing and the Cloverdale hospital.

Very disappointing if true. I was under the impression either translink or the province were going to issue an update on the project either this upcoming summer or fall.

Hadn't they already begun to do preliminary utility work along Fraser highway?

[Klazu]

Yes, cutting trees and moving power lines at Green Timbers Park.

[Metro-One]

I can’t believe this forum, after all the chest thumping I have heard about the NDP being great for transit expansion I thought that any hint of a delay due to politics on this project, especially now given the extra billions of dollars the feds are giving out for such projects this year and next, would have been met with a unanimous “WTF!!”

Instead some are trying to rationalize it via the pandemic (even though this project was a campaign promise during an election that took place during this pandemic, and other cities in Canada seem to be doing the opposite by ramping up their mass transit expansion plans taking full advantage of the extra federal dollars, such as Montreal and Ottawa).

And others are trying to defer the topic all together by bringing up a years old argument about building different projects all together.

Here are the facts:

Detailed design is almost complete for the entire project.
Extra federal money is on the table.
This project full build was an election promise.

Any delay now has no good excuse.

[Changing City]

We have one forum member saying someone they spoke to thought that maybe this project wasn't moving ahead yet. We don't know if it's true, we don't know why it might be true, and we don't know how long any delay might be.

When the federal longer term commitment to more consistent funding was announced, Global News reported it under the headline "SkyTrain to UBC and Langley still not a done deal even with federal transit funding in place".

This isn't, yet, a shovel-ready project. The mayor's Council are on board supporting it; there's an NDP election promise to fund it, but the provincial money is contingent on the federal government matching the funds. Whether those funds are available doesn't seem to be completely clear - or at least, not in terms of timing. The same questions exist for the Arbutus to UBC line, which will cost more, but has a greater potential ridership. It's too soon to start shouting about broken promises until it's clear that promises have indeed been broken.

[nname]

I thought from the TransLink board meeting, the project is currently being transition to being a MoT project (led by province, the same way as Broadway Subway). The process is expected to be completed by the end of this quarter, and all future work (design, consultation, tender, etc) will be handled by the province.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Sucks but true. I try and envison a scenario where we see rapid transit in Surrey in this decade but the region still has one hospital and a rapidly growing population. They are also going on a rapid spending spree to preserve housing for the homeless.

Ideally, we should be really prioritizing funds for transpotation projects in the fastest growing region in BC.


Really seems like it won't be this decade unless the Libs promise it and take control.

I’m old enough to be annoyed when the liberals canceled the phase I millennium line extensions to UBC and Port Moody that were supposed to start being built in 2002 when phase I completed.

Libs initially wanted to save money using LRT only to switch back to the NDPs originally planned SkyTrain tech in 2008. UBC would be built by now we’re it not for that vacillation.

[Migrant_Coconut]

... At least we're not as dysfunctional as Toronto's transit planning?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I can’t believe this forum, after all the chest thumping I have heard about the NDP being great for transit expansion I thought that any hint of a delay due to politics on this project, especially now given the extra billions of dollars the feds are giving out for such projects this year and next, would have been met with a unanimous “WTF!!”

Don't get me wrong, if that rumour's true I'm not happy. However, I completely understand why the provincial government might be hesitant to throw their weight behind public transit in the current environment. Ultimately their goal is to win the next election and if they have to break a promise to do so, I imagine they would.

Doesn't make me happy about it.

[madog222]

The doubt here started following the provincial budget that did not specifically fund the project. As others have pointed out this was not yet a shovels ready project, up until the election this was still a two phase project.

... [Finance Minister Selina] Robinson noted that planning for the SkyTrain extension from Surrey to Langley is also among the $7.8 billion the province is allocating to transportation and infrastructure over the three years of the budget.

“The funding will include making the business case for the SkyTrain – you have to get that, because it’s the responsible thing to do,” Robinson said. “(The project) also has to have input from the Mayors’ Council and the federal government. Many of the details will come through the business case...

From the Surrey Now-Leader one week ago.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I can’t believe this forum, after all the chest thumping I have heard about the NDP being great for transit expansion I thought that any hint of a delay due to politics on this project, especially now given the extra billions of dollars the feds are giving out for such projects this year and next, would have been met with a unanimous “WTF!!”

Meh. My suspicion is that the proposals south of Fraser at least partly to appease people who thought it was unfair that Vancouver get all the action. But Broadway was always the truly urgent need.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Here are the facts:

Detailed design is almost complete for the entire project.
Extra federal money is on the table.
This project full build was an election promise.

Any delay now has no good excuse.

IMO, any delay now is political suicide. I'm sure that the current Mayor of Vancouver who promised us an extension to UBC and an updated city-wide plan by the end of his 4 years won't be getting re-elected by the people due to his broken promises so I wouldn't be surprised if the people hold the Province to the same standard.

They can wave COVID in front of our faces as an excuse to ramp-up the hospitals but what about the incredible amount of jobs both the UBC and Expo line extensions would bring? Surely these politicians aren't so dumb that they would shaft projects that would legitimately boost the economy in the short and long-term during a time where the economy pretty much crashed during a pandemic?

Originally Posted by Changing City

This isn't, yet, a shovel-ready project. The mayor's Council are on board supporting it; there's an NDP election promise to fund it, but the provincial money is contingent on the federal government matching the funds. Whether those funds are available doesn't seem to be completely clear - or at least, not in terms of timing. The same questions exist for the Arbutus to UBC line, which will cost more, but has a greater potential ridership. It's too soon to start shouting about broken promises until it's clear that promises have indeed been broken.

It's never too soon to start making a clamor. Politicians have been jerking us around for thousands of years. They need to be frequently reminded who puts the money in their coffers.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Meh. My suspicion is that the proposals south of Fraser at least partly to appease people who thought it was unfair that Vancouver get all the action. But Broadway was always the truly urgent need.

Broadway/UBC.

I agree that there is a bigger sense of urgency there.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by madog222

The doubt here started following the provincial budget that did not specifically fund the project. As others have pointed out this was not yet a shovels ready project, up until the election this was still a two phase project.

It's unclear what's in the Budget. Check page 53 (63 of the PDF):

https://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/2021/pdf/2021_Budget%20and%20Fiscal%20Plan.pdf

Broadway Arbutus Skytrain is called out, of course.

"Transit infrastructure" is a line item for $750M over the next 3 years that says it includes Surrey-Langley. Dunno how that breaks down.

[bloomtronzero]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

... At least we're not as dysfunctional as Toronto's transit planning?

We haven't had a mayor cutting off streetcars(B-Lines here I guess) and flipping off the drivers and passengers yet, either, but honestly it's a low bar to clear.

[hollywoodnorth]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7851194/hamilton-transit-announcement/

so Hamilton's LRT was CANCELLED..... now suddenly its back to life and "Shovel ready" and the feds are putting in $$.


and now the BC NDP are gonna not do the same thing for the Surrey Langley Skytrain line that is Actually "shovel ready"


what a total Horigan thing to go.