DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Can you explain to me how this infringes on their rights? This policy is just tweaking the tax code to motivate people to develop instead of leaving their land (in a critically important areas) undeveloped. They still have the right do leave it be, it just won't be as finically appealing. Yes?

Well, if you define our "rights" as what the constitution says, since the Colorado Constitution speaks directly to what can and cannot go in the tax code, you can't just "tweak it" without literally violating somebody's rights. The reason nobody does this is because it would violate Article X, Section 3 (Uniform Taxation) of the Colorado Constitution.

Now, we could always amend it to allow for differential taxation as you propose.

[The Dirt]

Ah yes, the longest constitution in the world. Thanks, 1876 era version of Obama!

[The Dirt]

https://denverite.com/2021/05/07/park-hi...-camping-site-out-of-their-neighborhood/

Five Park Hill residents are suing the city, Colorado Village Collaborative and Park Hill United Methodist Church to stop the church from hosting a safe outdoor camping site in its parking lot.

The lawsuit alleges that putting the site in the church’s parking lot will pose danger to minors and school-aged kid in the area (the church is near Park Hill Elementary School and other schools) and children on-site at the church. It suggests the new proposed site, unlike the existing site at the Denver Community Church in Cap Hill, does not have easy access to food, public transportation, health or job resources. It additionally suggests moving the site into the church’s parking lot will prompt churchgoers to park on the nearby streets, taking spots away from local residents and people visiting them.

The lawsuit alleges members of the public were not able to provide adequate feedback on the proposal.

Looks like they used NIMBY playbook arguments #27, #43, and #58. Maybe we should just donate to CVC, instead.

https://www.coloradovillagecollaborative.org/donate-sos

Seriously, please donate.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Ah yes, the longest constitution in the world. Thanks, 1876 era version of Obama!

Doesn't that distinction actually go to California?

Nope, I googled, if the internets are to be believed, it's actually India! That beacon of good governance.

Although this site says Alabama crushes India. http://scocablog.com/californias-constitution-is-not-the-longest/ Seriously, how many of Alabama's 369,129 words do you think are overtly racist or treasonous? How much of Alabama's constitution has already been overruled by federal courts as unconstitutional? I bet half or more, lol.

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
I saw today that Andrew Yang is planning on raising $900 million in revenue for New York City by increasing property taxes on undeveloped parcels. Would a plan like that help downtown Denver?

Originally Posted by TakeFive
Please STOP with wanting to screw with people's Property Rights.


Denver is not San Francisco or NYC; nor is it even Austin or Seattle.

Denver does not have an apartment shortage. Landlords are currently offering one to two months free rent etc.

Denver does not have a land shortage. There's probably enough land in developers hands to build half again as many apartments as there are now. But try making new construction pencil out with soaring building costs and a soft rental market? Some are in a position to forge ahead projecting a much better market by the time they're done but many others aren't able to do this.


Can you explain to me how this infringes on their rights? This policy is just tweaking the tax code to motivate people to develop instead of leaving their land (in a critically important areas) undeveloped. They still have the right do leave it be, it just won't be as finically appealing. Yes?

What's with all the rampant libertarianism on this board? Maybe that's a representative flavor of old Colorado but you'd be hard pressed to find as many libertarians in real life. Denver is just becoming a more sophisticated business environment, not unlike Seattle, and probably more so than Austin. It is what it is. Keep up or fall behind and become a property rights neanderthal.

If anyone really believes in absolute property rights IN a major city, they're going to be in for a rude awakening over and over...



Can someone say totally randomized Pile of Confused Fenestration

[FunctionForm]

So is this totally randomized Pile of Confused Fenestration a result of Denver becoming a more sophisticated business environment like Seattle?

Forget political views, what is the result you are trying to achieve with vacant properties and how do you get there? Raising taxes doesn't build a building and certainly doesn't guarantee the results of what any development would look like. What qualifies as development? Maybe Buzz Geller could put up a 3-story Taco Bell? Making a city a more expensive place to do business isn't what any business owner is looking for.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

Can someone say totally randomized Pile of Confused Fenestration

Looks to me like something that should be historically preserved when someone tries to redevelop it in 2065.

[TakeFive]

From Here to There

Denver is growing up, becoming a Big Boy

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2021/05/05/denali-logistics-park-aurora.html

“We’re not a market that can be serviced from another region,” she said. “These users need to come in and have a stake in Denver to be able to meet the needs of the Denver population.”

Does this mean Amazon will no longer ship product to Denver doors from Phoenix?

Zatz said the demand has been growing in Denver for a number of years for a couple of reasons: Consumers’ use of e-commerce is growing and the area is increasingly congested with traffic.

“[These factors] started the acceleration probably two or three years ago," he said. "Clients need to get to their customer base much quicker than they have in the past. It's the Amazon effect.”

Where are we going with this conversation?

Global real estate firm Hines and Denver-based developer Fulenwider have partnered to develop a Class A property straddling E-470 near Denver International Airport. The project, Denali Logistics Park, consists of more than 216 acres and will accommodate over 3 million square feet upon completion.

“The vision is for all the workers [at Denali Logistics Park] to be able to literally walk to lunch if they so desire,” said Ferd Belz, president of Fulenwider. It’s also within an enterprise zone, opportunity zone and foreign trade zone, according to a release.

How 'bout rehabbing and refreshing the Old.
(Some might call it 'preservation')

Connections at 6th


Courtesy of AHA

Grand Opening: Connections at 6th Affordable Housing
April 27, 2021 - Mile High CRE

The $23 million development benefited from $7.2 million in tax credit equity generated through the 4 percent Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) program.

Connections at 6th demonstrates how the LIHTC program extends beyond the walls of affordable housing; it evolves into tangible communities built upon the connections made between its inhabitants. LIHTC’s resyndication and rehabilitation allowed for the total transformation of 6th that preserved affordability for all 68 units.

Speaking of Preservation I Love This Preservation


Courtesy Esteban L. Hernandez/Denverite

La Alma Lincoln Park moves closer to becoming the city’s second-ever historic cultural district
Apr. 21, 2021 Esteban L. Hernandez/Denverite

It’s been quietly in the works for years, but the process is now formally underway after an application was filed.

Lucha Martinez de Luna, an archaeologist specializing in Mesoamerican cultures and the director of the Chicano/a Murals of Colorado Project, called the project a move toward “healing” for Latinos in the city, whom she believes are often left out of the city’s history.

[TakeFive]

American Cities Pandemic Theme Song

• Video Link

Seek and it shall be given you (Matthew 7:7)


Image courtesy of ZeroHedge

Dream of all the new Supertalls and High Speed trains.

State And Local COVID Aid Money Is On The Way. This Is What Each Colorado County Will Receive
May 10, 2021 By Caitlyn Kim - CPR

Colorado will be getting $3.8 billion in state aid and $265 million in non-entitlement funding. Nineteen of the state’s metro areas will also receive direct aid. The Denver metro area will get $166 million...

Counties will receive
County of Denver is to receive over $141 million; Adams Co will receive over $100 million; Arpapahoe Co receives over $127 million; DougCo over $68 million JeffCo will receive over $113 million.

And to think we're just getting started.

Colorado governments will receive their first round of state and local aid through the American Rescue plan this week.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

By the way, just for the record, our Landmarks Commission voted overwhelmingly last week to preserve the corner tower and City Council is very likely to agree. You shouldn't troll/attack/gaslight those who are actually in the majority on an issue.

This YIMBY dogma is getting to be too much.

Denver7’s brutalist building on Speer won’t become a city landmark

After a nearly two-hour public hearing, council members voted unanimously against the designation.

I know that Texans tend to have an overinflated sense of self(whether neanderthal conservative or snowflake liberal) that makes their arrogance insufferable, but looks like you were way off on what the majority believes. It certainly isn't your viewpoint.

[The Dirt]

Fucking unanimous, granted Candi "anything that makes money is evil" CdeBaca and Debbie "nobody's going to live by train tracks" Ortega were absent.

The cherry on top is that they talked about making the rules more strict for hostile designations because the process is so laughable that people are going to lose faith and there'll be a backlash against preservation. I'd say that the backlash is already here. Most of the people that wanted to save the building didn't even defend the architecture, they just talked about how they don't want new housing because it's going to be ugly. This is why there's such pushback from the YIMBYs. Not because we hate preservation but because the hostile designation type of preservation has been used as a weapon to delay and stop new housing across the city.

[seventwentyone]

123 Speer as the only thing that failed last night, it looks like.

Bill here: https://denver.legistar.com/LegislationD...UID=3822ACC7-987B-4FCC-B289-3F221CA97FC4

Video here: https://denver.granicus.com/player/clip/14208?view_id=180&meta_id=895469&redirect=true

Loretto Height rezoned last night though: https://denver.legistar.com/LegislationD...-47C7-88B4-EE1723D57789&Options=&Search=

[bunt_q]

Was Candi absent or did she not cast a vote? The Denver Post made it seem like she was there but didn’t vote.

I did not watch. I do not have that much patience for stupid. Denver Fugly is a hoot today, though.

My favorite comment was (in C3PO voice) DIE YIMBY SCUM. Yeesh.

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Denver7’s brutalist building on Speer won’t become a city landmark

I know that Texans tend to have an overinflated sense of self(whether neanderthal conservative or snowflake liberal) that makes their arrogance insufferable, but looks like you were way off on what the majority believes. It certainly isn't your viewpoint.

Speaking of overinflated senses, do you have like my whole biography on a sticky note whenever you feel the need for a sneering response to something several weeks ago? I've only referenced being from Dallas because I don't want this city to become Dallas, which appears to by the YIMBY objective. I guess that makes me less than human in your eyes or whatever, so be it.

None of you must have heard what CM Hinds had to say when he was urging his colleagues to vote no, which was imploring the developers to do something other than a big "luxury" building. Newsflash... that's what we're getting, and nothing else.

[seventwentyone]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Was Candi absent or did she not cast a vote? The Denver Post made it seem like she was there but didn’t vote.

I did not watch. I do not have that much patience for stupid. Denver Fugly is a hoot today, though.

My favorite comment was (in C3PO voice) DIE YIMBY SCUM. Yeesh.

She was present on other votes it appears.

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Speaking of Preservation I Love This Preservation


Courtesy Esteban L. Hernandez/Denverite

La Alma Lincoln Park moves closer to becoming the city’s second-ever historic cultural district
Apr. 21, 2021 Esteban L. Hernandez/Denverite

Wait until out-of-state REITs set their sights on Lincoln Park... once easy infill surface lots on Santa Fe finally disappear. This group and all the YIMBY people on social media will have it out for the Chicanos... just wait for it. Gunna get ugly.

I'm on the side of the Chicano descendants trying to preserve their history. I guess that makes me a snowflake, re: comment above.

[The Dirt]

Ah yes, we want to turn Dallas into a Chicano-less white luxury apartment utopia modeled on Dallas. Thanks for standing up to us! You're such a good guy, man of the people, gopokes.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Ah yes, we want to turn Dallas into a Chicano-less white luxury apartment utopia modeled on Dallas. Thanks for standing up to us! You're such a good guy, man of the people, gopokes.

YIMBY will have them surrounded, actually. Think of how many white luxury apartments will fit on Burnham Yard. I am just assuming Debbie "nobody's going to live by train tracks" Ortega will not be interested in stopping the inevitable YIMBY takeover there too.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

Speaking of overinflated senses, do you have like my whole biography on a sticky note whenever you feel the need for a sneering response to something several weeks ago? I've only referenced being from Dallas because I don't want this city to become Dallas, which appears to by the YIMBY objective. I guess that makes me less than human in your eyes or whatever, so be it.

None of you must have heard what CM Hinds had to say when he was urging his colleagues to vote no, which was imploring the developers to do something other than a big "luxury" building. Newsflash... that's what we're getting, and nothing else.

There was once a time when I really appreciated this forum for both the breadth of knowledge that people on here have and because of the productive and relatively respectful discussion that occurred. I have also noticed the devolution of the rhetoric on here to where it begins to look more like republicans and democrats arguing on Facebook. I personally feel that ad hominem attacks are lazy, unproductive, and drag the entire discussion down.

That said, I would also point out that responding to ad hominem with more ad hominem does nothing to elevate the discussion. Nobody on here ever actually said that they would like to fill Denver with Dallas Doughnuts. That is simply an accusation that you have repeated at least 4-5 times and is your own opinion. This is is also a form of personal attack because it attacks a perceived motivation (i.e. turning Denver into Dallas) that has never actually been asserted.

I'd add that being afraid of what might get built, as opposed to saving what is built on its own merits, is not what historic preservation is for. The answer to the "Dallas Doughnut" problem is better modern architecture - not the endless embalming of mediocre old buildings.

Unfortunately, this is the reason I rarely engage in ongoing discussion on here. Sometimes I try to leave a thoughtful comment - take it or leave it. The main reason I still log on is because this forum continues to attract people with a deep well of knowledge about planning and what is going on in Denver. But it bums me out to see smart, passionate people getting caught up in personal fights with people they have never actually met.

[TakeFive]

Source

This sounds like a very good idea.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

The cherry on top is that they talked about making the rules more strict for hostile designations because the process is so laughable that people are going to lose faith and there'll be a backlash against preservation. I'd say that the backlash is already here. Most of the people that wanted to save the building didn't even defend the architecture, they just talked about how they don't want new housing because it's going to be ugly.

--------------------

Originally Posted by gopokes21

I've only referenced being from Dallas because I don't want this city to become Dallas, which appears to by the YIMBY objective.

I had noticed that some misunderstood your references to Dallas, your intended context. Maybe it wasn't always articulated the best but I got the gist of it.

---------------------

Moving right along


Source

Originally Posted by mr1138

Unfortunately, this is the reason I rarely engage in ongoing discussion on here. Sometimes I try to leave a thoughtful comment - take it or leave it. The main reason I still log on is because this forum continues to attract people with a deep well of knowledge about planning and what is going on in Denver. But it bums me out to see smart, passionate people getting caught up in personal fights with people they have never actually met.

Appreciate your thoughtful comment but the history of this forum is a lot like the "long and winding road" with lots of ups and downs and petty fun in the sun. Different strokes applies and every person's view is unique. I honestly can enjoy the simplistic as much as the complex.