Winnipeg | Of Interest

[esquire]

Why shouldn't the city's interests take precedence over this family's specific needs? Is there something preventing them from operating a drive thru in a more appropriate location? Or should these decisions going to be made on a purely emotional basis? If so, let me know when I can bring my crying children to City Hall to plead with council to allow me to set up an ice cream stand in the middle of Assinboine Park.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by esquire

Why shouldn't the city's interests take precedence over this family's specific needs? Is there something preventing them from operating a drive thru in a more appropriate location? Or should these decisions going to be made on a purely emotional basis? If so, let me know when I can bring my crying children to City Hall to plead with council to allow me to set up an ice cream stand in the middle of Assinboine Park.

How is that remotely the same thing? They want to rebuild the same building that was destroyed by fire on their property. You want to operate a new non-existing business on government land.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cheswick

How is that remotely the same thing? They want to rebuild the same building that was destroyed by fire on their property. You want to operate a new non-existing business on government land.

Because both would be examples of letting emotions drive land use decisions instead of good sense. The fire was unfortunate but just because it happened doesn't mean that site should get another new drive thru restaurant that will end up sitting there for another 50 years. Do you mean to tell me that the only choice this family has is between another drive thru on that precise corner or poverty and homelessness?

[michelleb]

I don't understand what's going on, but that Licia Corbella article is apparently a pack of lies by a known bad faith UCP writer smearing the councillor. Calgarians in the know were all over this last night on twitter. The city of Calgary actually had to issue a long clarifying thread to dispute the false claims: https://twitter.com/cityofcalgary/status/1385712031127408642

[trueviking]

Yeah. The city of Calgary sent out a tweet string debunking this. The family is allowed to rebuild like for like. I don’t think that’s allowed in Winnipeg but it should be. In this case the family is changing what they are rebuilding so it has to then go through the current processes and meet current criteria. It’s totally logical. It was their choice to change.

[buzzg]

It's awesome to see the way the City of Calgary handles things like that and posts clarifications and explanations on their platforms. Here the city must take advice from 1970s PR "experts" and pretend like nothing is ever happening.

[GreyGarden]

Brief CBC article today on high vacancy rates for high-end apartments in the City:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/rental-vacancy-rate-winnipeg-1.6018660

Anecdotally I was checking out 225 Carlton's listings and saw they were offering one month rent free and move-in incentives.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Brief CBC article today on high vacancy rates for high-end apartments in the City:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/rental-vacancy-rate-winnipeg-1.6018660

Anecdotally I was checking out 225 Carlton's listings and saw they were offering one month rent free and move-in incentives.

I'd imagine that if you live in Winnipeg and have the cash to spend $2k per month on rent, you'd come to your senses during a pandemic and put that monthly rent payment into a condo or home with a yard.

High end apartments are a tough sell in cities where commute times are low (especially true if working remotely) and housing prices are very affordable.

I could stomach renting for $2k per month in downtown Vancouver where my alternative is a $3k month mortgage payment on an equivalent-sized condo. In Winnipeg though, $2k monthly payment gets you close to a $500 to $600k house - hard to justify living in a downtown apartment next to windswept streets, vacant parking lots, and homeless-occupied bus shelters when you can grab yourself a pretty sweet house 20 minutes south with a backyard and retention pond nearby.

I know urbanists don't want to hear it, but like most cities our size, our inner core has a lot of work to do before it can be a reasonable alternative for most people in the fourth or fifth income quintiles.

[esquire]

^ I think that's a very accurate description of the current state of affairs downtown.

I know there has been a generational shift occurring across Canada, with a younger generation that is much more predisposed to urban living, car-free (or less car-reliant) lifestyles, a focus on experiences more than acquiring objects (therefore less need for space to store those purchases). But this assumes a living environment that is generally pleasant and attractive.

If downtown Winnipeg was barely pleasant and attractive before but feeling like it might be on a bit of an upswing, I'm concerned it may no longer be. It feels noticeably more hostile a place than it was 3 years ago. Even if you wanted to live in a $300K+ condo downtown, resale potential would have to enter into your mind to at least some extent... what if downtown continues to decline for the next 5 years? Could you get what you paid for the condo? It feels more speculative now than it has in quite some time.

You read posts by the likes of Alexander 90 who has to deal with problems day in, day out, and you start to wonder what the near future is going to look like for downtown... I'm worried that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

I'd imagine that if you live in Winnipeg and have the cash to spend $2k per month on rent, you'd come to your senses during a pandemic and put that monthly rent payment into a condo or home with a yard.

High end apartments are a tough sell in cities where commute times are low (especially true if working remotely) and housing prices are very affordable.

I could stomach renting for $2k per month in downtown Vancouver where my alternative is a $3k month mortgage payment on an equivalent-sized condo. In Winnipeg though, $2k monthly payment gets you close to a $500 to $600k house - hard to justify living in a downtown apartment next to windswept streets, vacant parking lots, and homeless-occupied bus shelters when you can grab yourself a pretty sweet house 20 minutes south with a backyard and retention pond nearby.

I know urbanists don't want to hear it, but like most cities our size, our inner core has a lot of work to do before it can be a reasonable alternative for most people in the fourth or fifth income quintiles.

I think what you're saying goes to show why more emphasis and investment needs to be placed on the core. Incentivize development downtown. Probably need to also disincentivize sprawl (we tried but it got thrown out).

[GreyGarden]

While the idea of living close to a retention pond does absolutely nothing for me, I do agree with most of what Winnipegger posted. The cost dynamics between renting and buying in Winnipeg make renting a high-end apartment a pretty unattractive option. Plus we have a very suburban population, so being close to the city doesn't carry much status here.

If our housing market stays hot maybe we'll see these higher-end apartments become more desirable.

[OTL]

First time poster here. Born-and-bred Winnipegger.

I've been living overseas for the past few years, and whilst I will likely being doing so for a spell yet, I do foresee myself coming home permanently for another 5-10 years (unless I meet a bride out here where I am haha). I am single with no family to speak of. I have not been able to get home recently due to you know what, given that it is illegal for me to leave my current country which has virtually no cases to speak of and risk bringing it back with me and infecting the population here.

Anyway, I have been putting a lot of thought into where I would like to live when I do come back. I have been seriously mulling over the idea of getting a higher-end flat somewhere in the city centre because the thought of living an urban lifestyle has been highly appealing to me for some time. I enjoy taking a stroll around, stopping at various shop and have a nice brew whilst out and about. I so desperately want to be part my home city's centre fabric. However, after reading some people's most recent posts of the state of the city centre, I'm fearful that a hefty personal investment may not end up being fruitful in the long-term, and that I would end up living in a soon-to-be ghetto.

I was hoping Winnipeg's city centre would have escaped the pandemic relatively unscathed (I know that much of the city centre had been on a fairly substantial upswing over the past 20-ish years), however that doesn't seem to be the case based on what I have read, and that is indeed sad. I haven't given up hope yet, but I'm looking to see if there are any kinds of initiatives help the situation improve and reverse the downward skid of the current state of affairs. I'm looking for any kind of constructive feedback with proportional points of view. And a fair warning for any trolls that just want to purely bash the city centre because they carry a bias hate-on for the locale, please save your breath as I care not to hear that utter rubbish spoken (or in this case typed).

I'm glad to be a part of this community and look forward to future inspiring conversations

[esquire]

^ Welcome to the forum!

I realize that I have been projecting a fairly negative outlook lately. I don't mean to sound discouraging... it's just out of a sense of despair that some of the hard-won gains over the last 20 years have been lost.

That said, there is still a ton going for downtown Winnipeg and it will only get better as activity returns. I suspect things will have moved dramatically by the time you come back in 5 to 10 years. If you want to be cautious, you can rent for a year or two a) to see whether you like it, and b) to just wait to see the direction things are headed.

Good luck with your plans!

[michelleb]

Originally Posted by OTL

Anyway, I have been putting a lot of thought into where I would like to live when I do come back. I have been seriously mulling over the idea of getting a higher-end flat somewhere in the city centre because the thought of living an urban lifestyle has been highly appealing to me for some time. I enjoy taking a stroll around, stopping at various shop and have a nice brew whilst out and about. I so desperately want to be part my home city's centre fabric. However, after reading some people's most recent posts of the state of the city centre, I'm fearful that a hefty personal investment may not end up being fruitful in the long-term, and that I would end up living in a soon-to-be ghetto.

The homeless situation has visibly gotten worse during the population, but the province has completely abandoned us on every level so that was 100% predictable. A different government on the provincial level and better city councillors and mayor could turn things around within 5 years. It really wouldn't take much investment.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

I could stomach renting for $2k per month in downtown Vancouver where my alternative is a $3k month mortgage payment on an equivalent-sized condo. In Winnipeg though, $2k monthly payment gets you close to a $500 to $600k house - hard to justify living in a downtown apartment next to windswept streets, vacant parking lots, and homeless-occupied bus shelters when you can grab yourself a pretty sweet house 20 minutes south with a backyard and retention pond nearby.

Many of us have zero interest in living in suburbia. For us, there is not choice, and we leave. Winnipeg's out-migration numbers reflect this.

2018 was a hard 1-2 punch combination of the Portage and Main referendum and Pallister cutting a lot of desperate people loose to live in homeless camps. Crime, predictably, followed. It all proved that Winnipeg wasn't serious about providing good urban living.

I lived downtown and in surrounding neighbourhoods for 12 years. It never improved as much as I would have liked--and a few things got worse--but I was a loyal Winnipegger and things were generally going in the right direction. They can get better again. But you all need to get rid of the Scarecrow of Broadway, and suburbanites need to get out of the way of the city being a city. Until then, Winnipeg can kiss thousands of us goodbye every year.

[GreyGarden]

Welcome to the forum. Things can sometimes devolve into name calling and hating on cyclists here, but for the most part I'd say most of the people on here want Winnipeg to join the 21st century and become an urban city. It's a good place to stay connected to developments in the City and engage in interesting conversations regarding the City's urban neighbourhoods.

It’s true, the attitude towards urban living in Winnipeg is often; we don’t do that here, move to Toronto. So thousands leave. What’s the saying, ‘Winnipeg’s largest export is it’s young and educated’.

That, being said, West Broadway and Osborne Village are walkable downtown adjacent neighbourhoods that in my opinion are quite nice. Unlike downtown, they’re quite lively and don’t have that deadsville feeling that downtown has after 5pm (for what it's worth, I often work late and I don't think downtown Winnipeg is the crime infested ghetto that many portray it as, it's just really quiet and lacking in people going about their day. If I'm waiting for a bus in the winter, its often me, maybe a student, one other person, and two homeless people sleeping in the shelter, so not a great ratio. Full disclosure, I'm also a 6 foot white man. I think downtown is a much more uneasy place for women to be after dark). Anyways, West Broadway and Osborne aren’t as sexy as the Exchange District, but unfortunately I think they’re still richer in amenities. I live in West Broadway and I’m able to live essentially a car-free lifestyle quite comfortably. I’m able to walk or take transit to the office, walk for my groceries, and have a decent-ish selection of restaurants, coffee shops and bars in the neighbourhood. Furthermore, many bike along Granite and hook up to the Assiniboine bike lane that takes you to the Forks, the Exchange and downtown. Osborne is also a comfortable walk over the river. I'll also say that the population and average income in the Exchange, Downtown, West Broadway and Osborne has probably never been higher.

The neighbourhood south of Broadway is also dense, but is really lacking in terms of good commercial options.

While these neighbourhoods might meet the textbook definition of gentrification, it’s not really something inner city neighbourhoods experience here. So it’s not like you’re going to come see a street that you haven't seen in awhile and all the windows will have been replaced and filled with wine bars and clothing stores. The biggest shock I think most people experience when they come to Winnipeg from a more urban city and move into a dense inner city neighbourhood is how little walkable commercial there is. Recently someone talked about how high streets are a little lackluster here, and there is some truth to that. Those kinds of streets don’t really exist here. Most of what I want exists within the City, but it sometimes requires a bit of work to get.

I found for me personally, West Broadway checked the most boxes. Plus, I have friends in the neighbourhood so that contributed to my choice. All of that is to say, I think there are urban options in Winnipeg that offer good quality, but you won’t find a bustling high street with everything you want on it.

[buzzg]

West Broadway/Wolesely would probably tick the most boxes for me if they would spray for mosquitos. Drives me nuts, as someone who Is allergic and gets destroyed by them, I could never live there – it's bad enough visiting friends. I don't know why peoples' right to not have their yard sprayed should affect my right to have mine done, and live comfortably.

[EdwardTH]

The doom and gloom is really over-stated. Truth is that office workers from East St Paul don't actually contribute much to downtown other than adding traffic congestion. For almost everyone I know who lives somewhere central, it's not just about being close to work. It's more about being in a neighbourhood where you can go get a coffee or a beer in walking distance, being close to other amenities like event venues, festivals etc. Most of the under-30 people I know still want that lifestyle even if they're working from home, they have no interest in living on a cul-de-sac in Fort Richmond with nothing around. Rental units continue to pour into downtown. I think it's actually going to be a boost for the area in the coming years to replace some of the stuffy office crowd with actual residents living in the area.

Originally Posted by michelleb

The homeless situation has visibly gotten worse during the population, but the province has completely abandoned us on every level so that was 100% predictable. A different government on the provincial level and fewer braindead city councillors and a functioning mayor could turn things around within 5 years. It really wouldn't take much investment.

Yeah, I also see a weird silver lining in that the problem has become so visible in recent years it can't be ignored much longer. The good news is it's not actually that tough to address, other cities already have blueprints that work. House people. Treat addictions. You just need leaders who actually give a fuck so hopefully we get a change of provincial gov't soon. Although I have zero hope for getting better councilors and worry our next mayor is going to be a Jenny Motkaluk type who will set the city back another 10 years.

[drew]

Originally Posted by buzzg

West Broadway/Wolesely would probably tick the most boxes for me if they would spray for mosquitos. Drives me nuts, as someone who Is allergic and gets destroyed by them, I could never live there – it's bad enough visiting friends. I don't know why peoples' right to not have their yard sprayed should affect my right to have mine done, and live comfortably.

I am a Wolseleyite and I find these types of comments a bit humorous.

It honestly doesn't matter whether or not Wolseley sprays for mosquitoes.

Where do you think these bugs breed? It isn't Wolesley or the inner city. Its the areas of the City and surrounding areas where there is substantial standing water.

If the bugs are bad in Wolseley, it's already too late. They have come in from all the free for all spray zones in the City.

And to be honest, the bugs are rarely bad in Wolseley.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by OTL

I so desperately want to be part my home city's centre fabric. However, after reading some people's most recent posts of the state of the city centre, I'm fearful that a hefty personal investment may not end up being fruitful in the long-term, and that I would end up living in a soon-to-be ghetto.

I was hoping Winnipeg's city centre would have escaped the pandemic relatively unscathed (I know that much of the city centre had been on a fairly substantial upswing over the past 20-ish years), however that doesn't seem to be the case based on what I have read, and that is indeed sad.

Like others have said, esquire's doom and gloom is a bit over the top. I live downtown and I really don't see the decline that he's talking about, aside from the obvious fact that it's much less busy due to WFH. But I certainly don't have the sense that the area is degenerating into a ghetto. It's just a quieter version of typical downtown Winnipeg.