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  #5401  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2021, 12:37 AM
Henbo Henbo is offline
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Great to see this project (and Lougheed) continuing to move forward

Is this an indicator of the wider development industry starting to heat up again? New announcements have seemed pretty slow lately... I imagine with the uncertainty caused by COVID
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  #5402  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2021, 2:59 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Nice to hear!
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  #5403  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2021, 8:08 PM
yvrTAB2 yvrTAB2 is offline
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They opened the first floor of the grand lobby today. Nothing too special other than guest services and washrooms. Rec room has nice signage that can be seen. Elevators from parking go up there now.

Was told that 3 shops there will be opening may long weekend. The salon, glasses store and some other one that I forgot.

Rec room possibly opening June. And food court whenever restrictions lift.
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  #5404  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2021, 7:20 AM
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cool. Restaurant restrictions are expected to be lifted just after the May long weekend unless they extend it again.
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  #5405  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 10:27 PM
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I'm not sure about the fate of the former Eatons/Sears outlet, but if it's kept, I can assume it could hold 2 anchors.

Occupation of the Level 1 and/or 2 could bring in retailers like Walmart, Hudson Bay, one of Loblaws' retailers, The Brick, etc.

Occupation of Level 3 (Galleria Level 2) could bring in retailers like Best Buy, Bed Bath & Beyond, Toys R Us, Jysk, etc.

or the upper level could be redeveloped as office space.

Last edited by Diegotheartist1; May 4, 2021 at 5:26 AM.
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  #5406  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 11:58 PM
WJ_Fan_147 WJ_Fan_147 is offline
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Originally Posted by Diegotheartist1 View Post
I'm not sure the fate of the former Eatons/Sears outlet, but if it's kept, I can assume it could hold 2 anchors.

Occupation of the Level 1 and/or 2 could bring in retailers like Walmart, Hudson Bay, one of Loblaws' retailers, The Brick, etc.

Occupation of Level 3 (Galleria Level 2) could bring in retailers like Best Buy, Bed Bath & Beyond, Winners, Toys R Us, Jysk, etc.

or the upper level could be redeveloped as office space.
It would be amazing to see a Best Buy and/or Loblaws brand here. Walmart would be nice too but I somehow don't think that'll happen, SHAPE wouldn't go for it.

I talked to the customer service people today and pretty much heard the same thing regarding food court and Rec Room, will open as soon as restrictions are lifted. Theatre and some retailers like Sephora is apparently almost done so aiming for a late June opening.

I asked about the McDonald's and why they aren't open for take-out, apparently its some inspection or parts issue. She told me it was suppose to open a few weeks ago but there's no estimate on when that will get resolved.
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  #5407  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 12:06 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
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Originally Posted by WJ_Fan_147 View Post
It would be amazing to see a Best Buy and/or Loblaws brand here. Walmart would be nice too but I somehow don't think that'll happen, SHAPE wouldn't go for it.

I talked to the customer service people today and pretty much heard the same thing regarding food court and Rec Room, will open as soon as restrictions are lifted. Theatre and some retailers like Sephora is apparently almost done so aiming for a late June opening.

I asked about the McDonald's and why they aren't open for take-out, apparently its some inspection or parts issue. She told me it was suppose to open a few weeks ago but there's no estimate on when that will get resolved.
Shape has properties with Walmarts so I don't think that they are that against it.
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  #5408  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 12:20 AM
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Shape has properties with Walmarts so I don't think that they are that against it.
There's also Walmart Supercentres over by Rupert Station, Lougheed, Royal City in New West and Metrotown. Is it really worth putting one in at Brentwood as well?
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  #5409  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 12:43 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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... and Shape has tried to position Brentwood as upscale - which Sporting Life and LL Bean fit into. A Wal-Mart would be inconsistent.
There may not be the high end stores originally planned, but I doubt they'd do a 180 and sign Wal-Mart.
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  #5410  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 1:54 PM
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the brunch place opened on Monday for patio and takeout.

H&M at Lougheed is closing May 15, they will be shutting the Lougheed store and "moving" to Brentwood. So we could see an end of May opening. Adidas opened on saturday.
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  #5411  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 5:16 PM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is offline
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There's also Walmart Supercentres over by Rupert Station, Lougheed, Royal City in New West and Metrotown. Is it really worth putting one in at Brentwood as well?
I doubt very much that the people who live in the towers would have a problem with a Walmart in their building complex.
And if it's too low-scale or low-end for anyone, they can always hop on over to the Whole Foods across the street and pick their fare from there.

But then they'd actually have to leave the building and (*gasp*) cross the street to do that.

At the end of the day it's all about convenience for most folks, and given a choice between having to drive over to Lougheed Mall or Rupert (and then deal with the hassle of parking) just to pick up some stuff,......versus taking a short walk downstairs.
Well....the math on that one isn't too complicated.
For most people anyway.

As for the desire for a perception of highscale/high-end shopping versus law-scale, average options, I think that ship sailed a long time ago.
Especially once it became clear the wouldn't be getting a Harrods, or a Marks & Spencer, or a Saks there anytime soon.
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  #5412  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 6:17 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
... and Shape has tried to position Brentwood as upscale - which Sporting Life and LL Bean fit into. A Wal-Mart would be inconsistent.
There may not be the high end stores originally planned, but I doubt they'd do a 180 and sign Wal-Mart.
Shape should still try to get something we don't have in Metro Vancouver, or Canada. Open something new like how they courted Suit Supply, although it has a little outlet at the downtown Nordstrom.

Opening a Walmart isn't bad. A good mall should have the whole spectrum of items, not just high-end retail. It already has mediocre brands like Mc Donald's and Starbucks, so it can't get any worse. Other perfect kinds of stores to open up there would be local or BC chains.
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  #5413  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 7:11 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
I doubt very much that the people who live in the towers would have a problem with a Walmart in their building complex.
And if it's too low-scale or low-end for anyone, they can always hop on over to the Whole Foods across the street and pick their fare from there.

But then they'd actually have to leave the building and (*gasp*) cross the street to do that.

At the end of the day it's all about convenience for most folks, and given a choice between having to drive over to Lougheed Mall or Rupert (and then deal with the hassle of parking) just to pick up some stuff,......versus taking a short walk downstairs.
Well....the math on that one isn't too complicated.
For most people anyway.

As for the desire for a perception of highscale/high-end shopping versus law-scale, average options, I think that ship sailed a long time ago.
Especially once it became clear the wouldn't be getting a Harrods, or a Marks & Spencer, or a Saks there anytime soon.
True, but it's not necessarily about the residents, it's a privately owned mall and it's about the landlord's positioning of the mall in the marketplace (ie Shape wants a suburban Pacific Centre or Oakridge calibre).

Representations may also have been made to incoming tenants as to the calibre of other tenants moving in (see Hudson's Bay's allegations against its landlords for failure to maintain a high calibre mall in the wake of Covid, or Cadillac Fairview's lawsuit against the Four Seasons for failure to maintain a top level hotel). Some landlords even require tenants to change their storefronts even few years.

Residents would have done their due diligence as to existing and future markets and services in the area before buying or moving in. I could see a grocery in the basement of the redeveloped east end of Brentwood, but that's probably many years away.
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  #5414  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 8:38 PM
Tangeray Tangeray is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
True, but it's not necessarily about the residents, it's a privately owned mall and it's about the landlord's positioning of the mall in the marketplace (ie Shape wants a suburban Pacific Centre or Oakridge calibre).

Representations may also have been made to incoming tenants as to the calibre of other tenants moving in (see Hudson's Bay's allegations against its landlords for failure to maintain a high calibre mall in the wake of Covid, or Cadillac Fairview's lawsuit against the Four Seasons for failure to maintain a top level hotel). Some landlords even require tenants to change their storefronts even few years.

Residents would have done their due diligence as to existing and future markets and services in the area before buying or moving in. I could see a grocery in the basement of the redeveloped east end of Brentwood, but that's probably many years away.
One of those asian price-smarts would really kill it if it went in underground on the east end in phase 3.
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  #5415  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 9:10 PM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is offline
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True, but it's not necessarily about the residents, it's a privately owned mall and it's about the landlord's positioning of the mall in the marketplace (ie Shape wants a suburban Pacific Centre or Oakridge calibre).

Representations may also have been made to incoming tenants as to the calibre of other tenants moving in (see Hudson's Bay's allegations against its landlords for failure to maintain a high calibre mall in the wake of Covid, or Cadillac Fairview's lawsuit against the Four Seasons for failure to maintain a top level hotel). Some landlords even require tenants to change their storefronts even few years.

Residents would have done their due diligence as to existing and future markets and services in the area before buying or moving in. I could see a grocery in the basement of the redeveloped east end of Brentwood, but that's probably many years away.

Yes I realize this, but my point was that whatever Shape's intentions, hopes, aspirations or plans were for this development some 9 or so years ago when it was first conceived, and whatever marketing they may have advertised and used to sell it a couple of years after that after construction had began, as did presales, they are clearly right now marketing and selling a vastly different project that's reflective of the realities that both they and other prospective tenants are facing today and of which any prospective buyers would (or should) be atttuned to.
And I'm not even talking about the impact of the COVID/Pandemic hit on retail and businesses last year that virtually and in some cases literally wiped out some brands completely out of the market altogether (and indeed right out of Canada) - which is a whole other story and chapter all on its own.

Also, the notion that a developer - regardless of how well-regarded they may be in the industry - might sell their development with promises of the highest of high-end amenities and dreams of living as the gods on Mount Olympus remade here on Earth - but ending up delivering less than - should be no surprise to anyone buying into a development like this. Outside of Downtown Vancouver, the unspoken mantra for developers is always promise high but deliver "adequate". Even in Downtown itself, just have a chat with buyers into Westbank developments and the likes and see if they feel they got what was fully promised.

I mean, right next door you have Concord Pacific who are building Concord Brentwood, and if I remember correctly wasn't their marketing tagline for that something along the lines of a "Yaletown for the suburbs" (or some such)? Does anyone buying into that project truly believe they'll be getting Yaletown standards and level of living from that locale? But the fantasay and the sales pitch is nice.
And that's what the lie that we allow ourselves to be told (and which eventually convinces us to buy) is all about.

Compare what the prospective tenant and retail list they had lined up for this project was when it was first proposed to what they have opened and available today and now, as well as what is promised as yet to come, just to see what I mean.
And no one can really blame them for the most part.
You can't really predict where the market or the Economy is going to be in 7 or 9 years time to defintively hold someone down to the notion that "We were promised La Crocodile and Gotham Steakhouse but now we only have McDonald's and Freshii's!!! Let's burn the whole place down!!!"

Fact of the matter is that even though this is in fact and indeed a high-end development, it's still a Suburban development being built in a Suburb - with all that that entails - and with the sort of market (and foot-traffic) that will likely support the kinds of retail they hope to have there.

That's why you normally have disclaimers in those contracts regarding those promises on what's to come.
Sure you could sue them for selling you on a false promise, but I'm guessing you'll probably have better luck selling on your unit and moving on if it bothers you so much.

I think as a developer or owner they best you can hope for is to get a good mix of retail and tenant brands from both high and mid-range end, because you're going to have to cater to all kinds to foot traffic and even High-end folks have to eat (McDonald's) burgers sometimes and drink (Starbucks) coffee occasionally every now and then.
Which isn't to say that a Walmart is definitively what's going to end up there. But a Walmart in the basement there isn't going to ruin or destroy whatever image anyone thinks Shape is aspiring for over there.
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  #5416  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 9:53 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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I'm not thinking of this as a residential development with retail that a developer will essentially walk away from.
I'm thinking of this as a long term retail development that will be a showpiece for Shape well into the future.

They've spent a lot of money on this project (retail areas look nicer than outlet malls like Tsawwassen Mills) so presumably they won't severely discount rents, and the discount places probably can't pay their expected lease rates.

This project is only in phase 1 - it will take a while to build up. Lower priced retailers can also signal the demise of a mall - look at Lansdowne in Richmond - or the cycle that Brentwood was in before redevelopment (with Sears, Zellers and some outlets), when Brentwood was considered a dying mall.

That said, you can tell that Shape is having a hard time finding retailers by looking at the very high number of service-oriented tenants - hairdressers, etc.

There's also a very high number of restaurants and food court tenants, but that could be chalked up to the trend towards a lifestyle focus (together with Rec Room and Cineplex) rather than hard goods.
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  #5417  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 9:55 PM
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Perhaps, just perhaps, malls just aren't that appealing.
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  #5418  
Old Posted May 5, 2021, 6:26 PM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
.....

That said, you can tell that Shape is having a hard time finding retailers by looking at the very high number of service-oriented tenants - hairdressers, etc.

There's also a very high number of restaurants and food court tenants, but that could be chalked up to the trend towards a lifestyle focus (together with Rec Room and Cineplex) rather than hard goods.
I think everyone (i.e landlords) is having a hell of a rough time now finding and getting retailers and commercial tenants, given the current circumstances.

All one needs to do is take a look at the number of vacancy signs that have popped up everywhere even in the heart of downtown Vancouver.

Which said, now is probably not the best time to gauge what the commercial (and spending) market is like at the moment, to the degree that it's affecting Shape or whether what they're experiencing is out of the norm.

They did have very rotten misfortune in having completed the main parts of the commercial and retail plaza just as the pandemic hit, followed by the lockdown and now the meltdown of the retail market,...and shutdown of indoor dining,...etc..

A lot of the service-type retailers and service oriented businesses that you're hinting at (like hairdressers) are the ones that were most adversely affected by people not wanting to be out among strangers or crowds and having physical contact without protection (or even with). So no surprise that that's where they're struggling finding tenants.

I think next year and specifically next summer after the pandemic is over (hopefully) and most people are vaccinated and want to go out and spend time outside again, will be a better time to assess the real difficulty in getting tenants and retailers (of whatever caliber) for their units.
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  #5419  
Old Posted May 5, 2021, 7:46 PM
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It's pretty incredible that there is no hotel space planned with any of the Brentwood developments. There is high demand for it after what Vancouver is doing and there are many businesses in the area that will have business travelers. I forget, did the planned hotel below Highline in Metrotown get converted to offices or not?
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  #5420  
Old Posted May 5, 2021, 8:16 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
I'm not thinking of this as a residential development with retail that a developer will essentially walk away from.
I'm thinking of this as a long term retail development that will be a showpiece for Shape well into the future.

They've spent a lot of money on this project (retail areas look nicer than outlet malls like Tsawwassen Mills) so presumably they won't severely discount rents, and the discount places probably can't pay their expected lease rates.

This project is only in phase 1 - it will take a while to build up. Lower priced retailers can also signal the demise of a mall - look at Lansdowne in Richmond - or the cycle that Brentwood was in before redevelopment (with Sears, Zellers and some outlets), when Brentwood was considered a dying mall.

That said, you can tell that Shape is having a hard time finding retailers by looking at the very high number of service-oriented tenants - hairdressers, etc.

There's also a very high number of restaurants and food court tenants, but that could be chalked up to the trend towards a lifestyle focus (together with Rec Room and Cineplex) rather than hard goods.
I think Shape is just trying to keep up with the times: emulating nicer malls from around the world that this country doesn't really have. Brentwood mall does need a couple of nicer anchor tenants to improve the overall retail environment and synergy though. If the higher end retailers are not setting up shop, something mid-range will suffice.


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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Perhaps, just perhaps, malls just aren't that appealing.
And Pacific Centre is still enjoying a way higher tenancy occupancy (like around 100%?) compared to those streetside shops around. Stop imagining things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
It's pretty incredible that there is no hotel space planned with any of the Brentwood developments. There is high demand for it after what Vancouver is doing and there are many businesses in the area that will have business travelers. I forget, did the planned hotel below Highline in Metrotown get converted to offices or not?
Totally agree on that. Perhaps the lot across the street can have a nicer hotel complex (like a nicer chain and another budget hotel block) in the near future.
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