Geographic oddities

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by edale

I also don't think Cleveland is much more Catholic, or substantially more Irish than Cincinnati. Cincy has a ton of Irish people, and most of the German immigrants to the city (far and away the biggest group) were Catholic, as they tended to come from Bavaria.

nope. they do try to even them up, but fyi the diocese of cleveland has a third more people than cinci's and a freaking ten less counties! so yes its much more catholic around ne ohio.

[Steely Dan]

FWIW, out of curiosity i went googling and found this link that says cleveland is 23% catholic and cincinnati is 21% catholic. and interestingly enough, columbus is nestled right in between them at 22%.

https://www.prri.org/spotlight/the-top-t...t-dominate-american-cities/#.VfnF2J3BzRY

and all of ohio's 3C's are right in line with the national catholic average of 22%.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

FWIW, out of curiosity i went googling and found this link that says cleveland is 23% catholic and cincinnati is 21% catholic. and interestingly enough, columbus is nestled right in between them at 22%.

https://www.prri.org/spotlight/the-top-t...t-dominate-american-cities/#.VfnF2J3BzRY

thats probably the same for a lot of midwest cities. things have changed over time and the diocese is more than the city.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

thats probably the same for a lot of midwest cities.

here are the midwest's 10 biggest metro areas ranked by % catholic according to that study:

chicago - 33%
twin cities - 27%
milwaukee - 26%
st. louis - 25%
detroit - 23%
cleveland - 23%
columbus - 22%
cincinnati - 21%
indianapolis - <20% (exact figure not listed)
kansas city - <20% (exact figure not listed)

Originally Posted by mrnyc

things have changed over time

i doubt the religious make ups for the cleveland and cincinnati metro areas have changed much since 2015 (the year of the study linked above).

[Buckeye Native 001]

Which is strange to me because it felt like being Catholic was such a huge part of the regional culture/identity growing up in Cincinnati, even outside of the people who actively participated in parish functionings.

Then again, my mom's side of the family was Catholic, my mom worked at St. Rita's School for the Deaf and my dad's side is Protestant so it sometimes felt like Belfast growing up in my house (particularly around the time I had my First Communion)

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Which is strange to me because it felt like being Catholic was such a huge part of the regional culture/identity growing up in Cincinnati, even outside of the people who actively participated in parish functioning a.

Then again, my mom's side of the family was Catholic, my mom worked at St. Rita's School for the Deaf and my dad's side is Protestant so it sometimes felt like Belfast growing up in my house (particularly around the time I had my First Communion)

Does Cincinnati have a large Hispanic population? This would be a likely explanation for the variation of % Catholic in Upper Midwest cities.

[Buckeye Native 001]

No, at least, not when I lived there. Most of the Cincinnati Catholics were German, Irish and Italian.

Even moving to Phoenix, it felt like Catholicism practices were different in Hispanic communities compared to Anglo, but in a vague, intangible sort of way. Historically, might've had something to do with the Missionaries/Jesuits and the indigenous populations in the Southwest?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

here are the midwest's 10 biggest metro areas ranked by % catholic according to that study:

chicago - 33%
twin cities - 27%
milwaukee - 26%
st. louis - 25%
detroit - 23%
cleveland - 23%
columbus - 22%
cincinnati - 21%
indianapolis - <20% (exact figure not listed)
kansas city - <20% (exact figure not listed)







i doubt the religious make ups for the cleveland and cincinnati metro areas have changed much since 2015 (the year of the study linked above).

i meant back in the days and catholics moved out to the burbs over time.

also, you changed up your posts first you said your list is cities now you say its metros so i dk. if metro the diocese certainly doesnt reflect that. are we done now?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

also, you changed up your posts first you said your list is cities now you say its metros so i dk.

i edited my post because i was mistaken.

i thought the list was for city-propers at first, but it turns out it was for metro areas, so i corrected myself.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i edited my post because i was mistaken.

i thought the list was for city-propers at first, but it turns out it was for metro areas, so i corrected myself.

o ok you didnt say. well, the diocese casts a wider net. and in cinci's case, much, much wider. its not a random survey its the actual accounting of catholics by catholics.

[edale]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

o ok you didnt say. well, the diocese casts a wider net. and in cinci's case, much, much wider. its not a random survey its the actual accounting of catholics by catholics.

You're clueless. Did you know that the Cincinnati Archdiocese does not cross the state line, and that Covington has its own Diocese? Guessing you did not.

Cleveland Archdiocese (which includes Akron): 682,948
Cincinnati Archdiocese (which includes Dayton): 471,457
Covington Diocese: 92,456

So you're looking at 682,000 in Cleveland compared to 563,000 in Cincinnati. Cleveland CSA is ~3.5 million, while greater Cincinnati+Dayton MSA is about ~3 million. 19% for Cleveland, 18.7% for CinDay. Pretty much identical.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

19% for Cleveland, 18.7% for CinDay. Pretty much identical.

and my guess for the reason those figures are several points below the survey numbers i posted earlier is because the survey probably picks up a small number of small "c" cultural catholics whose names don't appear in any parish directories, but who nonetheless consider themselves "catholic" in a more generic, non-official sense.

i mean, that kinda describes me. i don't belong to a parish. i don't go to church. but because i was raised catholic and went to to catholic schools K-12, it's kinda hard for me to think of myself as being anything but "catholic" in a cultural sense, if not a religious one.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i mean, that kinda describes me. i don't belong to a parish. i don't go to church. but because i was raised catholic and went to to catholic schools K-12, it's kinda hard for me to think of myself as being anything but "catholic" in a cultural sense, if not a religious one.

Same here. We used to say in our family we are "CEO Catholics"-- attend mass on Christmas and Easter only. But we did all the sacraments, went to catholic schools, etc.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I think Steely (or maybe it was Shawn?) once coined the term "Cathnostic," which is a pretty apt description for what you're both describing.

Well hell, in my head Steely's half responsible for the word...

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I think Steely (or maybe it was Shawn?) once coined the term "Cathnostic," which is a pretty apt description for what you're both describing.

Well hell, in my head Steely's half responsible for the word...

i certainly didn't coin the term, but i might have introduced it to this forum.

i can't remember when and where i first heard it, but it was ages ago.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Which is strange to me because it felt like being Catholic was such a huge part of the regional culture/identity growing up in Cincinnati, even outside of the people who actively participated in parish functionings.

Then again, my mom's side of the family was Catholic, my mom worked at St. Rita's School for the Deaf and my dad's side is Protestant so it sometimes felt like Belfast growing up in my house (particularly around the time I had my First Communion)

felt like Belfast 🞵🞵🞵🞵 thats funny.

i have almost always dated (or married) a catholic girl my whole life and i feel like i’ve always been called out on my family protestantisms, lol.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I just remember my Dad being livid (he was/is part of the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ/United Church of Christ) that he couldn't partake in my First Communion unless he converted to Catholicism, which he absolutely refused to do. I vaguely remember them having a couple of meetings with the parish deacon.

Then again, he and my mother were married in his church in 1981 and when my mom's parish found out, the Archdiocese of Cincinnati sent them several letters saying it refused to recognize their marriage unless they participated in Catholic marriage classes. She participated out of obligation to her family and her Priest eventually admitted he didn't give a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 where/how they got married but had to go along with the rigmarole of the Archdiocese.

I finally saw the copies of the letters she saved this year as they prepare for their 40th Wedding Anniversary in October. Real Spanish Inquisition-type stuff

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

I just remember my Dad being livid (he was/is part of the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ/United Church of Christ) that he couldn't partake in my First Communion unless he converted to Catholicism, which he absolutely refused to do. I vaguely remember them having a couple of meetings with the parish deacon.

Then again, he and my mother were married in his church in 1981 and when my mom's parish found out, the Archdiocese of Cincinnati sent them several letters saying it refused to recognize their marriage unless they participated in Catholic marriage classes. She participated out of obligation to her family and her Priest eventually admitted he didn't give a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 where/how they got married but had to go along with the rigmarole of the Archdiocese.

I finally saw the copies of the letters she saved this year as they prepare for their 40th Wedding Anniversary in October. Real Spanish Inquisition-type stuff

My Dad is the only one left in the family who goes to Mass, but for some reason my sister was interested in getting married in a Catholic church. They were not having it--it wasn't even about taking classes, it was about being a parishioner in good standing for years before that would be allowed. Now her twins are graduating from high school, and neither they nor their little sister have ever set foot in a Catholic church.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I think I underestimated (or was naively unaware) of how involved you have to be in your parish to reap whatever benefits come with that. No wonder those annual parish directories were so important...

I'm sure it's similar in places with heavy Catholic populations, but it seemed like all the Cincinnati parishes had to space out their summer festivals so as not to coincide/compete with each other. Summer festivals were (no idea if they still are?) serious business.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by edale

You're clueless. Did you know that the Cincinnati Archdiocese does not cross the state line, and that Covington has its own Diocese? Guessing you did not.

Cleveland Archdiocese (which includes Akron): 682,948
Cincinnati Archdiocese (which includes Dayton): 471,457
Covington Diocese: 92,456

So you're looking at 682,000 in Cleveland compared to 563,000 in Cincinnati. Cleveland CSA is ~3.5 million, while greater Cincinnati+Dayton MSA is about ~3 million. 19% for Cleveland, 18.7% for CinDay. Pretty much identical.

There are only four dioceses in the US that cross state lines. I'm in one of them.

Two are nominally across lines. One is the Archdiocese of Washington, which is parts of Maryland, and then crosses a "state line" into the District of Columbia, and also includes the US Virgin Islands. Another is the Diocese of Norwich, which includes Fishers Island in New York as well as its main section in Connecticut. The two dioceses that are evenly split between two US states are the Diocese of Wilmington, which is all of Delaware and the Eastern Shore of Maryland (Maryland on the Delmarva Peninsula); and the Diocese of Gallup, with is western New Mexico and eastern Arizona.