[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I have just received a rather cryptic personal message from a source who stated that the Coop development will be "much larger" than even the two 10 storey towers previously rumoured.

There is no reason for this source to deliberately mislead me, so I believe that this individual honestly believes that his(her) information is reliable.

There is so much secrecy about the Coop development, it does make you wonder why. Will this be a truly transformative development? Is this the reason why there is so much secrecy???

Interesting.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I have just received a rather cryptic personal message from a source who stated that the Coop development will be "much larger" than even the two 10 storey towers previously rumoured.

There is no reason for this source to deliberately mislead me, so I believe that this individual honestly believes that his(her) information is reliable.

There is so much secrecy about the Coop development, it does make you wonder why. Will this be a truly transformative development? Is this the reason why there is so much secrecy???

So would this project have to go before the PAC?

[David_99]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There is so much secrecy about the Coop development, it does make you wonder why. Will this be a truly transformative development? Is this the reason why there is so much secrecy???

My wife works at Heritage and last week her coworker said “You know those two 10 story buildings that they were supposed to build? I hear it’s now three 15 story buildings!”. I laughed and this week jokingly asked if it’s been changed to four 20 stories yet. Maybe she DID hear something.

[JHikka]

Multiple towers of the same height? Different towers of varying height would be much better, especially if they're going to be taller than everything else.

Still rumours, but yeah.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by David_99

My wife works at Heritage and last week her coworker said “You know those two 10 story buildings that they were supposed to build? I hear it’s now three 15 story buildings!”. I laughed and this week jokingly asked if it’s been changed to four 20 stories yet. Maybe she DID hear something.

Interesting. Like I said, the person who sent me the private message would have no reason to pull the wool over my eyes. I believe that he believes that what he told me was truthful. It all depends on how good his sources are.

The lot is big enough for three 15 storey towers. You never know.

Where there is smoke, there is often fire.............

[Philbilly]

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[Riberview]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting. Like I said, the person who sent me the private message would have no reason to pull the wool over my eyes. I believe that he believes that what he told me was truthful. It all depends on how good his sources are.

The lot is big enough for three 15 storey towers. You never know.

Where there is smoke, there is often fire.............

How tall is Assomption Place? 20? Wow.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by David_99

My wife works at Heritage and last week her coworker said “You know those two 10 story buildings that they were supposed to build? I hear it’s now three 15 story buildings!”. I laughed and this week jokingly asked if it’s been changed to four 20 stories yet. Maybe she DID hear something.

The person who originally PM'ed me earlier today about the Co-op development contacted me again this evening and said that your wife was "spot on", and that his sources were "very reliable".

So, the latest hottest rumour regarding the Lafford project for the former downtown Co-op property is that it will indeed consist of three 15 storey residential buildings. Lafford is (previously) on record for stating that there will be a street front commercial/retail presence in this development. I guess the next question is whether there will be a common podium, or will the three buildings be completely separate.

I drove down Foundry Street late this afternoon after work to have another look at this property, and it struck me that once this development is built out, that Foundry Street will be completely transformed and urbanized! On it's Main Street end, it is anchored by the Atlantic Lotto HQ. Immediately south of this is Heritage Court with it's impressive massing and thousand employees. The Lafford property will completely line Foundry Street the remainder of the way, from Heritage Court to Assumption Blvd. If there really are going to be three 15 storey buildings here, then the entire complexion and character of Foundry Street will be forever changed. Foundry will become the western anchor for the revitalization of the downtown core south of Main Street. The changes will be profound!

Originally Posted by JHikka

Multiple towers of the same height? Different towers of varying height would be much better, especially if they're going to be taller than everything else.

Still rumours, but yeah.

Indeed still rumours and things could easily change again, but the speculation is fast and furious. If the changes to this project are as great as it would appear, this probably explains why there are no renderings available, or presentations to PACS yet. Things are still too much in flux. Still, since there is construction fencing up, and excavators on site, Lafford obviously wants to get going this year, so I expect an announcement or a PACS presentation sometime in the next couple of months.

I agree with you that it is important that the three buildings not be clones on one another. Some variation in height would be nice, or some architectural differences between the buildings to maintain visual interest and create variety. I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

[tmacdougall]

Just messaged two reliable sources. They both say there is validity in the multiple building, 15 story rumours.

Originally Posted by David_99

My wife works at Heritage and last week her coworker said “You know those two 10 story buildings that they were supposed to build? I hear it’s now three 15 story buildings!”. I laughed and this week jokingly asked if it’s been changed to four 20 stories yet. Maybe she DID hear something.

[MonctonRad]

Thanks. I now believe this rumour is true. This reminds me a lot of the rumour regarding a new Kent store on Mapleton by the Trans Canada. At first, the rumour regarding this seemed unlikely because Kent already had a substantial store in good condition in Wheeler Park. The rumour persisted however, and within a few years, proved to be true, with the new store now under construction.

This is another example of a seemingly improbable rumour which is persisting, and slowly becoming sharper, clearer and increasingly focussed. It began a little over a year ago with Lafford announcing a substantial investment coming for downtown Moncton, followed by the revelation that he had purchased the old Co-op property a couple of months later, then the rumour became of a mixed commercial/residential project in the works, followed by the rumour of two 10 storey residential towers on a commercial podium, now morphing into three 15 storey towers, again, likely on a common commercial podium.

The vision is coming into focus!

[MonctonRad]

The tower crane at the Moncton Hospital has been taken down. I guess it was no longer needed.

I would guess the crane was put in to assist in installation of the concrete elevator shafts for the new Maternal/Newborn Wing. This is complete. The new wing isn't that tall (two storeys plus mechanical), so I imagine the rest of the build can be completed with smaller portable cranes.

[MonctonRad]

For those who are unsure what the visual impact of having three new 15 storey buildings on the old Co-op site would be, then look at this:



I took this picture today from the plaza in front of the Avenir Centre. I have no idea what the massing of these three buildings will be like, so I took a guess as to what their arrangement would be (two on Record Street, and two on Foundry, with one obviously on the corner of Record and Foundry).

All of a sudden, when you leave the Avenir Centre, you will be confronted by an actual skyline! There will be a profound extension of the already existing skyline in the downtown core anchored by Assumption Place. A second cluster of high-rises will be arising to the southwest, and this will profoundly change the appearances of the city. It will be much more impressive to out of town visitors coming to events at the Avenir Centre.

Moncton will soon start to look like an actual city (as it should since we are the second largest CMA in the Maritimes).

[jonny golden]

MonctonRad This illustration makes a lot of sense with one building being right on the corner like that. Plus the picture shows how very close these building would be to the Avenir center. If you lived in one of these units, you could literally walk to the plaza in 60 seconds. It would be interesting to know how many total units a project like this would create. I guess we'll all have to wait and see just how true these rumors are.

Now if the Aquilini Group could only get going on the Crowne Plaza block!

[Taeolas]

Exciting times, sounds like Moncton's getting multiple skyscrapers all at once. And our demand certainly seems to warrant it.

Until the downtown announcement is made, I wonder if excitement should be a bit tempered; I've heard some of these projects be rumored to be X-stories tall, but the actual plan tends to be "a total of X stories among Y buildings". So the rumours may be seeing 15 total stories, like 5 between 3 buildings or something.

I doubt that will actually be the case, and Moncton is certainly ready for some more 10+ story buildings; but that is just a nagging doubt at the back of my mind.

[josh_cat_eyes]

I drove down foundry today and there is orange markings on the pavement like they are going to hook up underground utilities to a building. I kinda think this project is gonna get going really soon.

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

MonctonRad This illustration makes a lot of sense with one building being right on the corner like that. Plus the picture shows how very close these building would be to the Avenir center. If you lived in one of these units, you could literally walk to the plaza in 60 seconds. It would be interesting to know how many total units a project like this would create. I guess we'll all have to wait and see just how true these rumors are.

Now if the Aquilini Group could only get going on the Crowne Plaza block!

I had emailed Aquilini Group on a whim maybe 7 months ago, asking what their plans were..

Radio silence.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Riberview

I had emailed Aquilini Group on a whim maybe 7 months ago, asking what their plans were..

Radio silence.

Had Aquilini Development done something by now, they could really be cashing in considering the hot market. And looking at their web site they are more than capable of creating spectacular buildings. It's a real shame that that block along Main Street is so dated and under-developed. It's just a pet peeve of mine that nothing is happening in such a prime location. Could you imagine something even close to this across from Hyatt Place:

https://aquilinidevelopment.com/community/king-edward-village/

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Until the downtown announcement is made, I wonder if excitement should be a bit tempered; I've heard some of these projects be rumored to be X-stories tall, but the actual plan tends to be "a total of X stories among Y buildings". So the rumours may be seeing 15 total stories, like 5 between 3 buildings or something.

Some tempering of enthusiasm would be reasonable. I imagine that the plans for three 15 storey are real, but the development might be staggered, with development of one tower now, and subsequent towers at regular intervals, so it might take 10 years for a complete buildout.

It could be a lot like the Junction Urban Village project, which is also a multi building urban neighbourhood. They seem to like building one structure at a time. The GoodLife Gym and Tannery Place South are complete, and they are just starting Tannery Place North, which will take them until fall 2022. The next building won't start until 2023, and the final building likely not until 2025.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Had Aquilini Development done something by now, they could really be cashing in considering the hot market. And looking at their web site they are more than capable of creating spectacular buildings. It's a real shame that that block along Main Street is so dated and under-developed. It's just a pet peeve of mine that nothing is happening in such a prime location. Could you imagine something even close to this across from Hyatt Place:

https://aquilinidevelopment.com/community/king-edward-village/

Aquillini is a tremendous property developer, but they are based in Vancouver, and their focus certainly is not on the east coast. They probably consolidated the Crowne Plaza block to keep their options open for a major urban development, but this is not a major priority for them. They are likely happy to sit on the land. I'm sure the annual property tax on the land is nothing more than a rounding error for them.

The other major developers active in Moncton (Lafford, Thrive, Quest, Ashford etc) are all local, and to them, development in the city is their primary focus and their main reason for existence. This is why these companies are so active right now.

Aquillini on the other hand may still be sitting on their property holdings downtown for another 10-15 years (or more) before they either decide to sell or develop the land.

[tmacdougall]

I agree that expectations should be tempered but it would be tough to convince tenants to move into a tower(s) knowing construction could take 10 yrs...even 6 to 10 yrs. No thank you.

If 3 towers is correct, I predict they all go up in fairly quick order.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Some tempering of enthusiasm would be reasonable. I imagine that the plans for three 15 storey are real, but the development might be staggered, with development of one tower now, and subsequent towers at regular intervals, so it might take 10 years for a complete buildout.

It could be a lot like the Junction Urban Village project, which is also a multi building urban neighbourhood. They seem to like building one structure at a time. The GoodLife Gym and Tannery Place South are complete, and they are just starting Tannery Place North, which will take them until fall 2022. The next building won't start until 2023, and the final building likely not until 2025.