The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[goodgrowth]

OK so Montreal is building the most, with Ottawa second and Edmonton closely behind. I don't see a lot of posts on here about REM, that's probably why I forgot about it. For some reason I assumed Edmonton was building the most, but it maybe just the map and the layout of all the routes. It looks more extensive than a lot of other cities.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

OK so Montreal is building the most, with Ottawa second and Edmonton closely behind. I don't see a lot of posts on here about REM, that's probably why I forgot about it. For some reason I assumed Edmonton was building the most, but it maybe just the map and the layout of all the routes. It looks more extensive than a lot of other cities.

Are Edmonton and Ottawa's LRT's automated?

According to REM, they will be the 5th longest automated rail network in the world, after Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Vancouver and Dubai.

https://www.cdpqinfra.com/en/projects/rem

Singapore MRT 203 km
Kuala Lumpur LRT 91 km
Vancouver Skytrain 79.6 km
Dubai Metro 74.6km
Montreal REM 67 km (+32km with plans for REM de l'est, so potentially 99km)

[Coldrsx]

Nope. All of Edmonton's trains have drivers.

[MolsonExport]

Gives you a sense of the scale of Montreal's metro/REM once completed.

mtlblog

[MolsonExport]

Prior to the East End Expansion lines being announced:
• Video Link

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

OK so Montreal is building the most, with Ottawa second and Edmonton closely behind.

Toronto is number 2. In terms of just LRT actively under construction right now:

- Eglinton Crosstown: 19 km
- Finch West LRT: 11 km
- Hurontario LRT: 18 km

So 48 km.

There's also BRTs under construction, the Scarborough subway is in the utility relocation phase and there are many GO train expansion projects under construction whose length is difficult to quantify because they are incremental contributions to a long term project to realize 260 km of frequent electrified regional rail service.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Too bad they aren't extending to the west all the way to the airport. Just 3 more kilometers would have done it.

The taxi lobby is fierce.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Too bad they aren't extending to the west all the way to the airport. Just 3 more kilometers would have done it.

Airports are bad trip generators. If Quebec City's airport generated as much rail traffic proportionally as Vancouver's, by passenger numbers, the airport connection would generate maybe 900 users a day. And that is what I would call the best case - access to the Vancouver airport is quite constrained (why the airport authority put up cash to help build the rail connection in the first place), and parking is expensive. Are either of these things true about Quebec City?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Toronto is number 2. In terms of just LRT actively under construction right now:

- Eglinton Crosstown: 19 km
- Finch West LRT: 11 km
- Hurontario LRT: 18 km

So 48 km.

There was a recent motion forwarded to extend Finch West LRT further south to connect to the Kitchener GO line. An additional 2.5km or so.

And whenever Ontario Line gets off the ground, another 15.5km.

There was also mention last night from Metrolinx of an Ontario Line extension on the west end either up Roncesvalles or Dufferin, with other suggestions of Mimico. Years and years away, but out there.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Airports are bad trip generators. If Quebec City's airport generated as much rail traffic proportionally as Vancouver's, by passenger numbers, the airport connection would generate maybe 900 users a day. And that is what I would call the best case - access to the Vancouver airport is quite constrained (why the airport authority put up cash to help build the rail connection in the first place), and parking is expensive. Are either of these things true about Quebec City?

We had about 2 million passengers per year before the pandemic at the airport to answer your question.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

We had about 2 million passengers per year before the pandemic at the airport to answer your question.

Yeah - which proportionally should support around 900 riders per day, best case.

[Chadillaccc]

It's crazy to think that even after all of this super impressive construction for the O-Train, it will only be matching the C-Train's current length when complete, though with fewer stations. Without factoring in the 20 km phase 1 of the Green Line and 26 km Phase 2. With much of what's approved in Edmonton only having a timeline of "Before 2040" it's hard to say, but with the Blatchford extension being about 2 km (I'm guessing?) and the Valley Line's combined 27 km, the system will come in at 53 km by 2026. Still pretty impressive from it's current 24 km.

Edit: Though I guess Ottawa's other 22 km of approved lines will get underway probably around the same time as the Green Line, so the system may very well surpass the C-train by several km.

[J.OT13]

• After Stage 2, Ottawa will have 64.5 km of rail and 41 stations.
• Stage 3, which is basically shovel ready, only waiting for funding, adds 22 km and 15 stations for 86.5km and 56 stations.
• Gatineau's Tramway is another 24km for a total of 110.5km.

There's a realistic chance that this all gets done by 2030. The Carling Tram is the only other rail project that's on the TMP, but no studies have been completed yet, so I wouldn't add it to the count. The City of Ottawa is laser focused on Stage 3 (so even the numerous BRT projects are unlikely IMO) and Gatineau on its west-end tramway.

Worth noting again that Ottawa's plans for the next 10 years are extremely suburban focused. While Edmonton and Calgary are adding new lines that crisscross each other, Ottawa's extending its system as far as possible to the edge of rural areas, mostly converting existing bus infrastructure or following highways currently served with bus lanes.

Gatineau's tramway will be a brand new two line service that will serve downtown. The Feds will be setting-up an office at the NCC to study the loop around the downtowns, which could be transformative for city-to-city everyday mobility and tourism.

[ssiguy]

REM is a Metro just like SkyTrain is. It has nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with grade separation. Even though Eglinton has a larger underground section, REM is a Metro and Eglinton isn't.

As far as Edmonton goes............great to see expansion of the Metro line but I think before they open it they should fix the portion that already open.

[FrAnKs]

• Video Link

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

The taxi lobby is fierce.

Could be the airport "silently" lobbied against it as well. They just recently built their multi level car park, in 2015. They probably still need users to pay for it.

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Airports are bad trip generators. If Quebec City's airport generated as much rail traffic proportionally as Vancouver's, by passenger numbers, the airport connection would generate maybe 900 users a day. And that is what I would call the best case - access to the Vancouver airport is quite constrained (why the airport authority put up cash to help build the rail connection in the first place), and parking is expensive. Are either of these things true about Quebec City?

Considering it's just a 3 km stretch on a multi billion dollar project, I'd say it's still worth it. They could also keep extending the line past the airport, to the northwest, (La Haute Saint-Charles), which has around 15,000 riders going downtown, daily.

Also, road access to YQB is ok, but definitely not adequate for the medium-long term. You're basically going through city streets with stop signs and stop lights to get to the airport. And at which international airport isn't parking expensive?

(The airport is in L'ancienne Lorette on the map)

[J.OT13]

I've seen the SkyTrain and the REM referenced as LRT before, but I don't consider them as so. Both are light metros. Then you have Ottawa, with DMUs on one line and LRTs on the other, but both are fully grade separated. Confederation (Lines 1 and 3) would be considered full light-metro, but Trillium (Lines 2 and 4) with its stupid 12 minute frequencies is a weird beast of its own. It doesn't fit in any category.

[swimmer_spe]

The debate on what is a LRT and what isn't always comes up. As far as I understand it, it depends on:
Vehicle
ROW
Stop Spacing


and most importantly....

What the government decides to call it.

Is Crosstown an LRT or streetcar?
Is Skytrain an LRT or a metro or light metro?
Could the 2WAD sections of GO be considered Metro?

That is why I like the idea of RT. It encompasses BRT, express buses and most, if not all rail transportation.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Could be the airport "silently" lobbied against it as well. They just recently built their multi level car park, in 2015. They probably still need users to pay for it.



Considering it's just a 3 km stretch on a multi billion dollar project, I'd say it's still worth it. They could also keep extending the line past the airport, to the northwest, (La Haute Saint-Charles), which has around 15,000 riders going downtown, daily.

Also, road access to YQB is ok, but definitely not adequate for the medium-long term. You're basically going through city streets with stop signs and stop lights to get to the airport. And at which international airport isn't parking expensive?

(The airport is in L'ancienne Lorette on the map)

"Just a 3 km stretch"
As the crow flies. But that requires a couple tunnels. Best route I can quickly lay out is 4.5 km (which would require it to be in mixed traffic on a 2 lane + street parking road). A better (but not great) route requires a 1 km+tunnel



How much elevated/tunneled? How many extra vehicles? Is it the best $300 million+ spend on incremental bit of the system? Does it create path dependency which limits other expansions? Is a capital subsidy of $300k a rider the best investment?

[nname]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I've seen the SkyTrain and the REM referenced as LRT before, but I don't consider them as so. Both are light metros. Then you have Ottawa, with DMUs on one line and LRTs on the other, but both are fully grade separated. Confederation (Lines 1 and 3) would be considered full light-metro, but Trillium (Lines 2 and 4) with its stupid 12 minute frequencies is a weird beast of its own. It doesn't fit in any category.

In Vancouver, LRT is sometimes used as "Light Rapid Transit", which is essentially as "Light Metro" if "Rapid Transit" = "Metro"

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Are Edmonton and Ottawa's LRT's automated?

According to REM, they will be the 5th longest automated rail network in the world, after Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Vancouver and Dubai.

https://www.cdpqinfra.com/en/projects/rem

Singapore MRT 203 km
Kuala Lumpur LRT 91 km
Vancouver Skytrain 79.6 km
Dubai Metro 74.6km
Montreal REM 67 km (+32km with plans for REM de l'est, so potentially 99km)

Actually, many of the new metro system are "automated", but there are not driverless -- the system is capable of running automated, but still have a driver to watch over things, or drive the train at certain time of the day, etc. And some of ones listed above, only part of the system is "automated", let alone "driverless".