CHICAGO | General Discussions

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Did you stop to think that, maybe, the trib could have not linked to its "Great Illinois Exodus" op-ed after they realized that the info it was based on was wildly incorrect?

I'm sorry, but that's willfully disingenuous shit, and it's par for the course for the utterly trash newspaper the trib has become.

And my criticism of the trib has jack shit to do with politics or whatever stupid-ass culture war ax-grinding you're on about.

They should just rename themselves the Barrington Tribune, since that is their target demographic.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by sixo1

Maybe "survey" is the incorrect term. According to our training, every address in the U.S. is suppose to receive it. For those that do not complete it, we show up at your door.

Yeah, there is a detailed long survey that a small portion of people receive, but everybody should have received the census form.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

? Sounds like you just want a cheerleader instead of a newspaper.

Yes, I want the hometown paper to cheerlead when it's called for. Or if not cheerlead, at least not go out of its way to damage our city At every turn.

Like I dunno, get off their lazy-asses and write a new op-ed that frames the many challenges facing illinois within the proper context of the reality that reports of the "Great Illinois Exodus" have been greatly exaggerated.

They won't do it because it's become a trash paper.

Anyway, fuck the trib.

And FTR, my comments have absolutely nothing to do with politics.

[the urban politician]

^ We have cheerleaders. World Business Chicago is one. The city’s leaders are another. Choose Chicago is a third. I frankly think that they need to do a better job of cheerleading than expecting our newspapers to do it.

The newspaper’s job is to report the news.. If it didn’t report the news and just acted like a cheerleader, it would be regarded as an even more shitty paper, actually.

Fine, it’s not political and that’s great. But I just don’t get what more you would expect from a newspaper that was being presented ACS & census data year after year showing that literally hundreds of thousands of people are leaving Illinois, the black middle class is bailing, and murders rates continue to be stubbornly very high compared to peer cities?

To the contrary, a rosy outlook given that information would’ve been disingenuous, as opposed to what the Tribune actually has been doing.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

To the contrary, a rosy outlook given that information would’ve been disingenuous, as opposed to what the Tribune actually has been doing.

How can you still not understand what I'm talking about?

I'm not saying the op-ed should have never been written, I'm saying that relinking to it on the very same day when the CB issued the real data that refuted the erroneous info it was based on in the first place was completely fucking stupid and intentionally misleading.

Why is the trib going out of its way to intentionally mislead its readers?

Oh that's right, because it's a shit paper.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ We have cheerleaders. World Business Chicago is one. The city’s leaders are another. Choose Chicago is a third. I frankly think that they need to do a better job of cheerleading than expecting our newspapers to do it.

The newspaper’s job is to report the news.. If it didn’t report the news and just acted like a cheerleader, it would be regarded as an even more shitty paper, actually.

Fine, it’s not political and that’s great. But I just don’t get what more you would expect from a newspaper that was being presented ACS & census data year after year showing that literally hundreds of thousands of people are leaving Illinois, the black middle class is bailing, and murders rates continue to be stubbornly very high compared to peer cities?

To the contrary, a rosy outlook given that information would’ve been disingenuous, as opposed to what the Tribune actually has been doing.

It's about the stories that the Tribune chooses to emphasize, which are overwhelmingly anti-transit, anti-bike and scaremongering. Did the Tribune even bother running this story, for example: https://chicago.suntimes.com/educati...e-college-prep

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

It's about the stories that the Tribune chooses to emphasize, which are overwhelmingly anti-transit, anti-bike and scaremongering. Did the Tribune even bother running this story, for example: https://chicago.suntimes.com/educati...e-college-prep

No, it’s the Tribune’s job to report the news and not cater to highly biased and narrow segments of the population. Remember when newspapers were like that? Ahh.. breath of fresh air. That is how a newspaper for the broad public differs from a forum full of like minded people who have identical views on transit and urbanism. It’s nice to read various viewpoints, in my opinion.

By the way, arguably there is still an exodus from Illinois. I mean, was it really disingenuous for the Tribune to post that op-Ed? Really? Like, we are one of 3 States to lose population, and the state lost population for the first time in its history. New York friggin gained well over 800,000 people! Something is still very wrong here. Any good newspaper won’t pretend that all is dandy and try to explore what the hell is going on. Even JB acknowledges that the census data was not good news.

[Steely Dan]

The fact that you don't think that a newspaper intentionally misleading its readers is an issue really says it all.

Nothing much left to discuss.

Enjoy your daily trib, I guess.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

No, it’s the Tribune’s job to report the news and not cater to highly biased and narrow segments of the population. Remember when newspapers were like that? Ahh.. breath of fresh air. That is how a newspaper for the broad public differs from a forum full of like minded people who have identical views on transit and urbanism. It’s nice to read various viewpoints, in my opinion.

By the way, arguably there is still an exodus from Illinois. I mean, was it really disingenuous for the Tribune to post that op-Ed? Really? Like, we are one of 3 States to lose population, and the state lost population for the first time in its history. New York friggin gained well over 800,000 people! Something is still very wrong here. Any good newspaper won’t pretend that all is dandy and try to explore what the hell is going on. Even JB acknowledges that the census data was not good news.

Actually, they should be objectively reporting both. You can't have it either way. Most of their reporting was based on previous Census estimates. Now we have the real thing, so they report that. Good journalism should also say by the way, the estimates the Census had were way off from the real thing too.

If you don't see this, then I don't know what to tell you. Losing population is bad, and they should be reporting that. They should should be reporting that the Census was literally almost 14X too high in their estimates and while losing population is bad, it's not as bad as everyone thought originally.

[VKChaz]

.. Losing population is bad, and they should be reporting that. They should should be reporting that the Census was literally almost 14X too high in their estimates and while losing population is bad, it's not as bad as everyone thought originally.

I have not followed the news coverage closely. But there is much that should be looked into. Obviously, why there are such large discrepancies in much of the country. And how the annual estimates may have affected federal fund allocations.

[left of center]

The Trib is crap. I also find the fact that Illinois lost residents as very concerning. I am *overjoyed* that we did not lose the amount we have been fearing for the better part of last decade, and that alone is a reason to feel great, but it may be premature to bust out the champagne and celebrate. Our leaders need to stop the bleeding and get the state growing again. There is no one single reason for the state's population loss (black flight from the Southland, depopulation of rural areas, reduced immigration from Mexico/Central-South America, flat manufacturing jobs growth, tax uncertainty in regards to the state/city pension crisis, etc), and its not going to be a one size fits all solution. Either way, we need to get to work. Illinois & Chicago are blessed with wonderful bones, we have a great geographic location (nearly limitless freshwater, geographic center of the country, etc), a deep and talented workforce, excellent transit infrastructure, etc. Others do more with less. We are clearly transitioning into a post industrial economy and society, and it has been a painful transition for sure, but I feel optimistic about the city and the state overall.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Actually, they should be objectively reporting both. You can't have it either way. Most of their reporting was based on previous Census estimates. Now we have the real thing, so they report that. Good journalism should also say by the way, the estimates the Census had were way off from the real thing too.

If you don't see this, then I don't know what to tell you. Losing population is bad, and they should be reporting that. They should should be reporting that the Census was literally almost 14X too high in their estimates and while losing population is bad, it's not as bad as everyone thought originally.

Aren’t you the guy who didn’t want to discuss how WFH hurts Chicago’s economy “because it’s so obvious”

Well, the earlier census estimates versus the real count were WAY off, that’s also “very obvious” but they clearly, like you, didn’t think that was “worth discussing”. What is far more important to discuss is why Illinois is still losing people when basically everyplace else is growing. They clearly and rightly think it’s a huge problem, and I hope that they explore it more. I sure would rather read an analysis of that than “we didn’t lose a quarter million people, we only lost 20,000 people, nanner nanner nanner! Let’s return to business as usual, nothing to see here!”

If Illinois and New York and Pennsylvania all lost population or broke even, I would say “ok, this is part of something larger and more systemic with northern/northeastern States and places with legacy infrastructure, etc”. But nope. Illinois is completely an outlier here. It’s not doom and gloom when it’s the truth, and I have zero doubt that the editorial board of the Tribune is bothered by it and wants Chicago to do well, probably as much or more than any of you people here do.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Aren’t you the guy who didn’t want to discuss how WFH hurts Chicago’s economy “because it’s so obvious”

Well, the earlier census estimates versus the real count were WAY off, that’s also “very obvious” but they clearly, like you, didn’t think that was “worth discussing”. What is far more important to discuss is why Illinois is still losing people when basically everyplace else is growing. They clearly and rightly think it’s a huge problem, and I hope that they explore it more. I sure would rather read an analysis of that than “we didn’t lose a quarter million people, we only lost 20,000 people, nanner nanner nanner! Let’s return to business as usual, nothing to see here!”

Right. Because comparing me, a guy on a forum that probably less than 50 people read and not a journalist is the same as one of the largest newspapers in the country with millions of subscribers.

Get the fuck outta here with this. I do think Illinois losing people was obvious too but not by as much is a huge surprise. I already wrote about my theory why and there's not much else I have to say until the rest of the data comes out where regular people like us can actually explore it.

[SIGSEGV]

Rather than reporting on 5 Chicago public schools ranking in the top 100 high schools according to US News (https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...ional-rankings, ok, it's a bullshit ranking, but still!), the Tribune has this outrage piece on Waukegan graduation requirements: https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...4~4~4~art%20no

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Rather than reporting on 5 Chicago public schools ranking in the top 100 high schools according to US News (https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...ional-rankings, ok, it's a bullshit ranking, but still!), the Tribune has this outrage piece on Waukegan graduation requirements: https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...4~4~4~art%20no

This is an odd comment. Looks like you’re now just fishing for reasons to pick on the Tribune. It’s a huge newspaper with a lot of news and a lot of viewpoints. So I’m sure that anyone who has an ax to grind with that paper will find some kind of article or editorial that will make their case for them.

I read that article about Waukegan you posted just now. I didn’t see any outrage in it. Quote the portion of the article where you saw that.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

This is an odd comment. Looks like you’re now just fishing for reasons to pick on the Tribune. It’s a huge newspaper with a lot of news and a lot of viewpoints. So I’m sure that anyone who has an ax to grind with that paper will find some kind of article or editorial that will make their case for them.

I read that article about Waukegan you posted just now. I didn’t see any outrage in it. Quote the portion of the article where you saw that.

It's a fine article that is surely interesting to people in Waukegan, but I have no idea why it was on the front page of the Tribune web site other than that "[minority-majority] school district lowers standards" probably drives clicks for the Tribune base. But maybe it's more incompetence than malice.

edit: ok, it's no longer linked to from the front page of the web site. Someone probably just fucked up...

[the urban politician]

Op-ed: Using flawed census data to remap Illinois will hurt voters. State should wait.
By MADELEINE DOUBEK
CHICAGO TRIBUNE |
APR 28, 2021 AT 12:57 PM

We’ve just learned Illinois again will lose a seat in the U.S. Congress due to population shifts across the country. The Illinois loss wasn’t nearly as severe as had been predicted. Our state’s population shrank by 18,124 people.

But the statewide population release by the Census Bureau, based on the 2020 census count, also revealed that its American Community Survey data for Illinois is flawed and has undercounted people in Illinois. And yet, it is the population estimates in this ACS data our state lawmakers say they will continue to use to draw our new political districts and get them approved in May.

If the lawmakers in the Democratic supermajority intend to use the ACS 2019 one-year estimate, it undercounts the Illinois population by 140,687 people. If lawmakers intend to use the ACS 2019 five-year estimate, it undercounts by 41,877 people.

For an idea of how important 41,877 people are to a state legislative remap, consider that it constitutes nearly half of a state legislative district. For reference, it’s a bit smaller than Oak Park, the hometown of Illinois Senate President Don Harmon. All of Oak Park matters and it should be counted.

We have no idea whether lawmakers are using the ACS one-year estimates or five-year estimates because to date, despite having held nearly 38 redistricting hearings to seek community input, lawmakers haven’t said what data they’ll use to draw our maps.

Still, it’s clear from yesterday’s state population release from the 2020 census that if they use ACS data, they will not count tens of thousands of Illinoisans. Will they be people of color who are missed? Will they be rural or urban? We just don’t know.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...324-story.html

That pesky Chicago Tribune! They hate Chicago! They never report anything!!!

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...324-story.html

That pesky Chicago Tribune! They hate Chicago! They never report anything!!!

I could be wrong, but it seems some people are annoyed by the frequency of doom and gloom compared to more positive pieces. The loss is a loss, but we've spent the better part of a decade hearing about drops of 80,000+ per year.

For the total loss to be less than a quarter of that over 10 years is quite a miss, but that underestimation won't garner nearly as much attention (even though it's arguably still not great news) because they'd been hyping a much worse result.

[the urban politician]

It’s misplaced anger at the Tribune for alleged ‘doom and gloom’ based on a preconceived notion that the newspaper has an anti-Chicago bias.

I don’t buy it, and nobody here has done a thing to prove it. It simply reported the news as it was coming over the years, just as other local papers did. I just Googled “Chicago population loss Sun Times” and got this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sun+...ile-gws-wiz-hp

They reported much of the same stuff over the years.

The problem is the ACS and the Census bureau, not the local newspapers simply doing their jobs

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

It’s misplaced anger at the Tribune for alleged ‘doom and gloom’ based on a preconceived notion that the newspaper has an anti-Chicago bias.

I don’t buy it, and nobody here has done a thing to prove it. It simply reported the news as it was coming over the years, just as other local papers did. I just Googled “Chicago population loss Sun Times” and got this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sun+...ile-gws-wiz-hp

They reported much of the same stuff over the years.

The problem is the ACS and the Census bureau, not the local newspapers simply doing their jobs

It's not solely on the Tribune, but I doubt they'll give the same attention to the real numbers that they did the estimates. Maybe 3 people care about the US Census Bureau or ACS data enough to seek it out if it's not on the front page of the paper. If you spend 6+ years writing articles about drops exceeding 200,000 people total, that starts to affect people's behaviors and perceptions, which then worsens (or makes real) the perceptions of decline.

The Trib has a platform and how they choose to use that platform speaks volumes.