Ontario Highways

[Dengler Avenue]

Or they don't know how busy the 401 is east of 412 and gamble in an effort to save whatever the distance is on 407 between 412 and 418 (18-20km or so).

Yep this is definitely a gamble these days (after 2018, I mean).

[Acajack]

Building both the 412 and 418 in that area (especially as toll highways) always seemed to be a stretch to me, although I suppose the numbers added up.

[Dengler Avenue]

Maybe building 418 was cheaper than converting the RIRO section of 35-115 into a proper 6-lane divided freeway because the latter would require knocking down nearly every property along the RIRO and building proper interchanges along the way. It’s even trickier when you have Clark High School accessible only from the RIRO.

[ScreamingViking]

We have to think longer-term for those connections, especially the one farther east. Once the development storm rains down more heavily on that area, these will be needed.

Plus they provide more options vs. the 401, depending how far east traffic congestion extends on a given day (in either direction). These connectors make the 407 more friendly as an alternate.

[Dengler Avenue]

Speaking of development, I really hope that 35/115 is the hard limit on the east side (with the sole exception of Newcastle)...

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Speaking of development, I really hope that 35/115 is the hard limit on the east side (with the sole exception of Newcastle)...

Me too.

412 and 418 could easily be extended north of the 407 too. Not that most of us would want development in the Greenbelt... but Ford & friends may

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Me too.

412 and 418 could easily be extended north of the 407 too. Not that most of us would want development in the Greenbelt... but Ford & friends may

I can see {412} punching north and replacing {12} up until Beaverton. {418}? Nah.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Building both the 412 and 418 in that area (especially as toll highways) always seemed to be a stretch to me, although I suppose the numbers added up.

The second phase of the 407 east project was completely unneeded. Phase 1 provided the connection to the 401 and serviced the urban part of Durham. That was enough.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The second phase of the 407 east project was completely unneeded. Phase 1 provided the connection to the 401 and serviced the urban part of Durham. That was enough.

It was enough until 401 has gotten bad through Oshawa in both directions during rush hour. {418} would be my go-to route on a Friday afternoon.

Guys, just because a divided freeway goes through the middle of nowhere (be it farmlands, parklands, or rocks), it doesn't mean that it's for nothing. In that case, {416} shouldn't have been twinned.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Speaking of development, I really hope that 35/115 is the hard limit on the east side (with the sole exception of Newcastle)...

Just like the Escarpment was supposed to be the western edge, and he Holland Marsh the north?
I doubt it.

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Me too.

412 and 418 could easily be extended north of the 407 too. Not that most of us would want development in the Greenbelt... but Ford & friends may

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I can see {412} punching north and replacing {12} up until Beaverton. {418}? Nah.

I'd bet the 412 will meet up with the 404 and then continue to the 11/411. It would ease the congestion on the 400.

418 is much less clear. Maybe it replaces the 35 going north. That would make some sense if the 407 tolled or untolled goes to Ottawa through Peterborough.

[Dengler Avenue]

Just like the Escarpment was supposed to be the western edge, and he Holland Marsh the north?
I doubt it.

Well Hamilton's west of the escarpment and afterwards you get nothing going on until Brantford, and beyond that you really have nothing until Woodstock.
North of Holland March, you mean Georgina? Yea that's indeed an issue.

418 is much less clear. Maybe it replaces the 35 going north. That would make some sense if the 407 tolled or untolled goes to Ottawa through Peterborough.

It won't. {35} will be widened to RIRO divided 4 lanes up to Lindsay. This is but the beginning: https://hwy35and115.ca/.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I'd bet the 412 will meet up with the 404 and then continue to the 11/411. It would ease the congestion on the 400.

A 412 that snakes around Stouffville and then links up with the 404 at either Gormley or Bloomington would be pretty welcome, i'd say.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Well Hamilton's west of the escarpment and afterwards you get nothing going on until Brantford, and beyond that you really have nothing until Woodstock.
North of Holland March, you mean Georgina? Yea that's indeed an issue.

Hamilton is on the escarpment, but I meant K/W, and soon London.
I also was referring to Barrie.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It won't. {35} will be widened to RIRO divided 4 lanes up to Lindsay. This is but the beginning: https://hwy35and115.ca/.

I am not looking at the next 10 years, or a short extension. I am looking to a full build out, where one day 418 could be extended to the Muskoka area.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by JHikka

A 412 that snakes around Stouffville and then links up with the 404 at either Gormley or Bloomington would be pretty welcome, i'd say.

I mean more closer to Beaverton.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by JHikka

A 412 that snakes around Stouffville and then links up with the 404 at either Gormley or Bloomington would be pretty welcome, i'd say.

How about {412} to Beaverton, then {447} (i.e. a freeway version of Stouville Road) between {404} and {412}?
The {447} won't punch through to be linked up with GTA West Toll Road because of Oak Ridges Morraine though.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It was enough until 401 has gotten bad through Oshawa in both directions during rush hour. {418} would be my go-to route on a Friday afternoon.

Guys, just because a divided freeway goes through the middle of nowhere (be it farmlands, parklands, or rocks), it doesn't mean that it's for nothing. In that case, {416} shouldn't have been twinned.

put it this way: The $1.8 billion spent to build phase two would have been far better spent elsewhere on the freeway network. Maybe spend a couple hundred million to widen the 401 through Oshawa if you are that concerned.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

How about {412} to Beaverton, then {447} (i.e. a freeway version of Stouville Road) between {404} and {412}?
The {447} won't punch through to be linked up with GTA West Toll Road because of Oak Ridges Morraine though.

Why not 448?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

put it this way: The $1.8 billion spent to build phase two would have been far better spent elsewhere on the freeway network. Maybe spend a couple hundred million to widen the 401 through Oshawa if you are that concerned.

I'm actually more of the redundancy type than the widening type. For example, I think that we should turn {7} east of Peterborough (and west of Brampton) into a divided freeway instead of widening the 401.
Ps: For {7} east of Peterborough, a lot of us are saying that M.T.O.'s only holding out on all the upgrades (1) because of HFR and (2) because, if M.T.O. upgrades too much, everyone will hop on the {7} instead of the {401}...

Maybe with phase 2 opened only at the end of 2019 (and right into the pandemic), we should wait a bit more and see whether AADT goes up after.

Why not 448?

Bloomington Road (York \40/) used to be {47}.

[Djeffery]

What was phase 1 and 2 of the 407 East? Was the 418 part of 1 or 2? I don't really think the 407 going east of the 418 to 35/115 was necessary, but more a nice to have. I don't have an issue with the portion east of 412 to 418 though.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Bloomington Road (York \40/) used to be {47}.

Markham Rd is highway 48