Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[ThePusherMan]

The Jazz have played sold out games on Sunday. I have no doubt about Utah’s ability to support teams. The question is all about someone footing the bill to bring a team here and build a stadium. Speaking of footing the bill. Why is RSL sale taking so long?

[Boz]

Tired arguments.

Put an NFL team in SLC and watch it flourish.

MLB is more likely. Hockey? Probably not but definitely possible.

I remember all of the stadium debate for RSL as I was heavily involved with the club at the time. Ultimately, it was the TRT tax in Sandy City that brought everything together.

I liked using the transient room tax because it was already set aside for arts and entertainment, and no Sandy City resident paid a penny, or so I was led to believe.

Of course I wish it had been built in SLC proper, even if it was going to be the Fair Grounds.

[rockies]

Is Hatman's Rio Grande plan an actual possibility or just some rendering with nothing behind it? I genuinely don't know much about it but I think it looks awesome... especially if a new stadium district could replace all those tracks

I grew up in Las Vegas and it was really cool to see the entire city turn into a hardcore hockey town once the golden knights arrived. It's unbelievably popular there among locals and I'm pretty sure LV valley and Wasatch front are very similar in population? Not to mention the raiders moving there soon(but that stadium may be more dependent on tourism, not sure)

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by rockies

Is Hatman's Rio Grande plan an actual possibility or just some rendering with nothing behind it? I genuinely don't know much about it but I think it looks awesome... especially if a new stadium district could replace all those tracks

It's more of the latter, a vision created by an passionate and capable forumer who knew he had a good idea and took the time to work out some of the details. With that in mind, after getting rave reviews here and on Reddit, it seems to me that it got into the hands of some more influential people and that it's not totally out of the realm of possibility now. Hatman gave us a little update in the transit thread on March 16:

Originally Posted by Hatman

I'll break my silence to say that I have been invited to make presentations to several interested parties, and reactions seemed favorable. No fatal flaws have been discovered yet. The trick will be getting ALL invested parties to not just react favorably, but also give their support.
I'm still optimistic, but there are a lot of people and organizations left to reach. This is going to be a long process, as it should be.
That said, I'm going to try and keep a low profile online, especially on this forum. I don't want to say anything stupid that would blow the whole thing up. Just know that I am doing all I can in the background to get The Rio Grande Plan into the hands of the right people.
So yes, any help that anyone can provide is always greatly appreciated!

[locolife]

Originally Posted by ThePusherMan

The Jazz have played sold out games on Sunday. I have no doubt about Utah’s ability to support teams. The question is all about someone footing the bill to bring a team here and build a stadium. Speaking of footing the bill. Why is RSL sale taking so long?

On the road maybe? The Jazz don't play home games on Sundays for this exact reason.

https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/utah

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by Atlas

BSL has the scoop on the project at the former site of the homeless shelter in the Depot District. Breaking ground this fall, the "RIO" will be 7 stories, 210 units (1/4 of them 60-80% AMI), 4000 sq. ft. of ground floor retail, designed by Dwell Design Studio. Dwell is based in Atlanta and has also recently designed the CINQ and the new Utah Theater Tower.

This is such an exciting project! I really like how you can see some hints of CINQ in the design, as well as the building west across the street. I do think this will look really nice across from The Gateway and will help to continue the rapidly expanding wall of development along 200 South.

I'm actually surprised how quickly they are moving on this, it was only bought two months ago: https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/the...cal-developer/ So good for dbUrban.

I do think there is going to be some public pushback on this one, unfortunately.

[bob rulz]

There should be public pushback. They demolished the homeless center for a project that has 25% "affordable" units. It's a joke. Meanwhile there's still like 3 tent cities - if not more - in walking distance.

This project itself isn't really the issue, but remember when Salt Lake was considered a leader in dealing with homelessness issues? That feels like a lifetime ago.

[Comrade]

The whole homeless decision process has been an utter failure. In fact, I think it's been one of the biggest failures in state/city history. Just a complete and total devastating reaction that failed to correct the issue.

And shit, remember like six years ago when everyone was pointing to Utah as an example of how to deal with homeless?

I fear it'll only get worse as we come out of the pandemic and so many people who lost their housing, or jobs, won't be able to even afford a shitty apartment on Redwood Road and are forced into the tent cities.

Everyone involved, from the city to the legislature, should be embarrassed for the complete ineptitude of the handling of the homeless pandemic here over the last 5 or so years.

On another point: the Jazz has absolutely sold out home Sunday games but those games are typically almost always playoff games, which, not surprisingly, are better attended, as they don't play Sunday regular season games at home.

The thing is, Salt Lake is very much a front-running town. I know we don't like to act like it is but it is.

In 2013, the Jazz ranked 13th in the NBA in % of capacity.

In 2014, the Jazz ranked 19th in % of capacity.

In 2015, the Jazz ranked 16th.

In 2016, the Jazz ranked 17th.

Every one of those seasons the Jazz missed the playoffs.

And that was before they reduced capacity, which took the Viv from the 6th largest NBA arena to the 12th smallest.

I think the NFL could succeed here - if the team was good. But if they aren't good, say, they're basically the Jacksonville Jaguars, who, outside 2017, hadn't done anything since 2007, I don't know if they'd do well enough at the gates to make up from the lack of total corporate influence.

I think Salt Lake could support a MLB team far easier than they could a NFL one.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

There should be public pushback. They demolished the homeless center for a project that has 25% "affordable" units. It's a joke. Meanwhile there's still like 3 tent cities - if not more - in walking distance.

This project itself isn't really the issue, but remember when Salt Lake was considered a leader in dealing with homelessness issues? That feels like a lifetime ago.

25% is good enough. I don’t like the method anyway. They should just supply vouchers so people can take that and find a place that works best for them instead of specified spots.

[allh]

How could an NFL team exist in a city where everywhere is closed on Sundays lol. Not trolling, just offering my insight. Its more plausible to have an MLB/NHL team.

[downtownslcresident]

Would anyone be willing to please update the first page of this thread with all the currant projects and proposals for the area? Seems like there’s a lot listed there that are dead, as well as many that are very much alive or under construction but not mentioned. Thanks I’m advance! :-)

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

25% is good enough. I don’t like the method anyway. They should just supply vouchers so people can take that and find a place that works best for them instead of specified spots.

Obviously even if the whole development were affordable, it would only make a small dent, but the whole thing seems a bit cynical doesn't it? Tear out the homeless shelter to put a mid-rise luxury housing development in its place with a token amount of semi-affordable housing (and yes, I would classify 60%-80% AMI as semi-affordable). I agree that the method of supplying affordable housing sucks, but there's nothing that Salt Lake City alone can do about that.

I do think that the design of the project is nice - a definite step above most of what we get. In most instances I would be happy for a development like that to be built. But the whole process just doesn't sit right with me.

Not to mention, all you have to do is take a walk or drive around downtown Salt Lake to realize how bad the homelessness issue is getting. I agree that we have to build more housing of all types, but I also strongly believe that we need to be prioritizing the people that are most in need now, especially in the midst of the financial damage that Covid has brought to so many people.

And I'm veering into tangent territory here, but I still believe that placing the main men's resource center in South Salt Lake was a huge mistake.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by allh

How could an NFL team exist in a city where everywhere is closed on Sundays lol. Not trolling, just offering my insight. Its more plausible to have an MLB/NHL team.

I agree with this and everyone else who says an NFL team couldn't exist in Salt Lake. It's just not going to happen.

[ThePusherMan]

My bar is open Sunday and our sales are better than most week days. You’re all living in the past or at least not in SLC if you think differently. I’ve been in Denver/Seattle/Phoenix on a Sunday. It’s the same here as it is everywhere. And yes the Jazz have sold out Sunday home games multiple times.

[ThePusherMan]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I agree with this and everyone else who says an NFL team couldn't exist in Salt Lake. It's just not going to happen.

Do I think we will get an NFL team any time soon? No, but it’s a perception problem not a demand problem.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The thing is, Salt Lake is very much a front-running town. I know we don't like to act like it is but it is.

I think the NFL could succeed here - if the team was good. But if they aren't good, say, they're basically the Jacksonville Jaguars, who, outside 2017, hadn't done anything since 2007, I don't know if they'd do well enough at the gates to make up from the lack of total corporate influence.

I think Salt Lake could support a MLB team far easier than they could a NFL one.

It's easy to get caught up in homerism on the topic of new teams, we all think our cities are great. But when you analyze the SLC sports market the team presence is right where it should be. The study below is a few years old now but it shows SLC capacity scores of 6 for an MLB team and 13 for an NFL team, you want to be at or near 100 for it to work.

I say leave it alone, trying to jam another team in to compete for the same income dollars as the Jazz and Real is only going to pull away finite dollars from the existing teams.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjourn.../market31.html

Name of sports market: Salt Lake City
Formal name: Salt Lake City-Provo-Orem, UT, Combined Statistical Area
Population: 2,389,225
Population rank (of 83 sports markets): 31

INCOME CALCULATIONS

• Total personal income (TPI): $91 billion
• Number of existing teams and Power Five programs: 3
• TPI required for existing teams and programs: $85 billion
  
• Remaining TPI: $6 billion
• Market's status: Small surplus of TPI

CAPACITY SCORES

• Major League Baseball: 6
• National Football League: 13
• National Basketball Association: (already has team)
• National Hockey League: 12
• Major League Soccer: (already has team)

A score of 100 indicates that a market's income base is sufficient to support a new team in a specific league. A score below 70 indicates that an income base is insufficient for a given sport. (A score is not calculated if a market already has a team in a given sport.)

[UrbanEar]

Here's a link to a cool story about a man who ran every street in SLC and not only mapped out his runs but also every coffee shop, mural, and other interesting things he found along the way.

https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-man...A3NFwVLZKot_ec

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Obviously even if the whole development were affordable, it would only make a small dent, but the whole thing seems a bit cynical doesn't it? Tear out the homeless shelter to put a mid-rise luxury housing development in its place with a token amount of semi-affordable housing (and yes, I would classify 60%-80% AMI as semi-affordable). I agree that the method of supplying affordable housing sucks, but there's nothing that Salt Lake City alone can do about that.

I do think that the design of the project is nice - a definite step above most of what we get. In most instances I would be happy for a development like that to be built. But the whole process just doesn't sit right with me.

Not to mention, all you have to do is take a walk or drive around downtown Salt Lake to realize how bad the homelessness issue is getting. I agree that we have to build more housing of all types, but I also strongly believe that we need to be prioritizing the people that are most in need now, especially in the midst of the financial damage that Covid has brought to so many people.

And I'm veering into tangent territory here, but I still believe that placing the main men's resource center in South Salt Lake was a huge mistake.

Your statement makes it sound like we tore down a functioning shelter and turned out a bunch of homeless. Obviously the reality is we built several other shelters to replace it. Obviously not enough beds, but the way you phrased it is what makes it sound cynical.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by locolife

It's easy to get caught up in homerism on the topic of new teams, we all think our cities are great. But when you analyze the SLC sports market the team presence is right where it should be. The study below is a few years old now but it shows SLC capacity scores of 6 for an MLB team and 13 for an NFL team, you want to be at or near 100 for it to work.

I say leave it alone, trying to jam another team in to compete for the same income dollars as the Jazz and Real is only going to pull away finite dollars from the existing teams.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjourn.../market31.html

Name of sports market: Salt Lake City
Formal name: Salt Lake City-Provo-Orem, UT, Combined Statistical Area
Population: 2,389,225
Population rank (of 83 sports markets): 31

INCOME CALCULATIONS

• Total personal income (TPI): $91 billion
• Number of existing teams and Power Five programs: 3
• TPI required for existing teams and programs: $85 billion
  
• Remaining TPI: $6 billion
• Market's status: Small surplus of TPI

CAPACITY SCORES

• Major League Baseball: 6
• National Football League: 13
• National Basketball Association: (already has team)
• National Hockey League: 12
• Major League Soccer: (already has team)

A score of 100 indicates that a market's income base is sufficient to support a new team in a specific league. A score below 70 indicates that an income base is insufficient for a given sport. (A score is not calculated if a market already has a team in a given sport.)

This is really interesting. A couple things to note. Population stats are 8 years old. The other thing is that population parameter area is strange because my understanding when they figure potential television revenue they use a much wider area. I believe we are in the Broncos “watershed”. So I would expect for us it would be Idaho, Western Wyoming and all of Utah. If the team were good you probably could pull Northern Nevada and all of WY.

[DJaxon76]

Been around, haven't posted in years. As far as NFL goes. Utah could support a Team. Attendance isn't the issue. If a 80,000 seat Stadium is built, LDS members will go. Its only 8 home games a season minus play-offs. On any given Saturday along the Wasatch Front there's 3 Stadiums sold-out. Weber, Utah, BYU that's over 100,000 fans in attendance. I've understood its the T.V. viewership that accounts for reasons Utah couldn't sustain a team right now. But hey, get one of these Silicon Slopes Billionaires to go buy the LA Chargers, they can still be in the AFC West. They have no fans in L.A. and share a stadium? Clear out the railyard and build a iconic stadium. Hell ya....Wishfull Thinking.