AUSTIN | Misc. Discussions - No Politics

[nixcity]

Voting to jail people is not the only option. https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...-homelessness/
Covid has cost us a lot of time on this issue and only exacerbated the numbers as a lack of social nets has led to an increase nationwide. Give them another chance, they are trying.
https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...-homelessness/

[eskimo33]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Have any of you ever been homeless?

I have been homeless and it was not by choice nor was it a fun experience. I had a full time tech job working for the State of Georgia and still could not afford rent. (Part of that was my past finical choices, the credit card industries predatory practices on university students and my own self pride) Everyone I met during that time was also not homeless by choice.

IMHO Prop B is nothing more a way for people to hide the homeless problem, not address their personal discomfort in acknowledging the problem and underlying societal issues. Is the current situation sustainable, no is outlawing it the answer no. I tend to think having dedicated spots for camping near social services might be a better temporary solution
The State consistently makes it more difficult to address the homeless problem by banning funding mechanisms that might produce low income housing (such as impact fees and now taking aim at economic development agreements).

[drummer]

I have not, but I've had close family members who were on and off again for years. This is what I was referring to in my previous post. While it was by no means a choice of theirs to be homeless, their addictions and refusal to accept help from family and friends resulted in loss of work and home for seasons. Addictions led to mental issues in their case.

[Sigaven]

I do wonder whether those who oppose Prop B are less exposed to the tent cities every day and the problems they cause. For those of us who DO have deal with them daily, we know there is no no NO way we can just let those tent cities continue to exist as-is and get worse.

As I said earlier, it's unfair to everyone (homeless or not) to let the current situation continue. I think the best we can do is pass prop 8 and force the city to come up with an alternate solution to help these people instead of wasting police resources arresting the homeless and cleaning up camps whenever they pop up.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

I feel strongly that some people do want to be homeless. I think there is a lot of fear that seeps in when you live in a high stress environment that results in people just wanting to burrow vs rising above their peers.

I'm sorry, but how you feel is irrelevant here. Feelings aren't facts. Also, being overwhelmed by whatever issues have befallen one's life and spiraling down into homelessness still doesn't equate to a person that *wants* to be homeless.

Originally Posted by lonewolf

our one way bus system has been the center of several lawsuits and documentaries. it's not a secret. here is a link i found after 5 seconds of googling.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-country-study

While I was not aware of the bussing programs in this article and how messed up some of that is, it still does not fit the narrative that people often peddle. That narrative is that other cities bus people to Austin with the express intent that they be homeless in Austin instead of their current city. That narrative is not at all what is described in that article.

Originally Posted by lonewolf

If your dad is still with us his opinion would be a valuable one.

I think you're confusing me with someone else.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Have any of you ever been homeless?

As a child, yes. We spent a lot of time staying with friends and family at times when we didn't have a home. If it weren't for those friends and family, we very well might have had no choice but to sleep in our car or possibly even a tent. This is an example of what I meant by homeless people being more than what you see in the streets.

Most people don't think of this as being homeless, but it definitely is. No matter what the situation, not having a place to call home and not having your own bed to sleep in is a giant mind fuck. (Especially when you're a kid. I often find that when most people think of the homeless, the idea of homeless children never even enters their mind.) So many just want to vilify those that they see in the streets without realizing that there are many homeless who are not currently in the streets, but are on the edge and only a step away from it.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by paul78701

As a child, yes. We spent a lot of time staying with friends and family at times when we didn't have a home. If it weren't for those friends and family, we very well might have had no choice but to sleep in our car or possibly even a tent. This is an example of what I meant by homeless people being more than what you see in the streets.

Most people don't think of this as being homeless, but it definitely is. No matter what the situation, not having a place to call home and not having your own bed to sleep in is a giant mind fuck. (Especially when you're a kid. I often find that when most people think of the homeless, the idea of homeless children never even enters their mind.) So many just want to vilify those that they see in the streets without realizing that there are many homeless who are not currently in the streets, but are on the edge and only a step away from it.

This would be me for the past three years, which you may or may not be aware.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

For those of us who DO have deal with them daily, we know there is no no NO way we can just let those tent cities continue to exist as-is and get worse.

Bro, I live like 2 blocks from one of them. There are two other homeless people that live somewhere in our neighborhood because I see them often. I haven't had any property damage, no one has bothered me and its mostly been fine. Trash pick-up could be better, and I suspect will be as covid starts getting under control and its easier for volunteer groups to come back out in force.

This narrative that people who don't want to jail people for being in poverty are stupid or don't know what we are talking about it getting real trying.

Like earlier I had a guy who was like "talk to people who talk to homeless people" and when I said I volunteered with the homeless population, crickets.

No one should be happy with the current situation, it does not mean arresting people and stripping them of their handful of earthly possessions is the answer.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by paul78701

As a child, yes. We spent a lot of time staying with friends and family at times when we didn't have a home. If it weren't for those friends and family, we very well might have had no choice but to sleep in our car or possibly even a tent. This is an example of what I meant by homeless people being more than what you see in the streets.

Most people don't think of this as being homeless, but it definitely is. No matter what the situation, not having a place to call home and not having your own bed to sleep in is a giant mind fuck. (Especially when you're a kid. I often find that when most people think of the homeless, the idea of homeless children never even enters their mind.) So many just want to vilify those that they see in the streets without realizing that there are many homeless who are not currently in the streets, but are on the edge and only a step away from it.

I was never homeless, but a lot of my family was in this exact situation. Sleeping in cars or crashing on our couch occasionally. As a kid it seemed fun because my cousins would be over, or they would be at my grandparents house. None of them ever slept on the street because they had a support network.

Thats what a lot of people don't understand. If you are in a city where you don't have a strong support network (family, friends, etc) its really not that hard to lose your job and wind up sleeping in your car.

My current financial situation is a fair bit removed from how I grew up (single-wide trailer with holes in the floor, no hot water). It's easy to paint a narrative of people on hard times being lazy or choosing a lifestyle, but its a lot easier to fall from the poor to destitute than most people with savings in the bank realize.

I attended a session on homelessness at the Trib fest back when you could do stuff in person and one of the speaker said the average homeless person in Houston wound up on the street over less than 500 bucks.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by drummer

I have not, but I've had close family members who were on and off again for years. This is what I was referring to in my previous post. While it was by no means a choice of theirs to be homeless, their addictions and refusal to accept help from family and friends resulted in loss of work and home for seasons. Addictions led to mental issues in their case.

Drug addiction and mental illness in society at large, but especially in the homeless population is incredibly difficult issue. I don't think its something that any city can deal with on its own. It's just a giant issue and there may be no real long-term solutions to it.

I will say, threat of arrest to someone who is addicted to drugs is not going to keep them from camping given that their addiction is already something that could lead to much harsher penalties/jail time.

I think decriminalizing addiction is an important issue, but drugs fucking suck and wreck a lot of lives, and not only is help for it extremely expensive, it very often takes multiple attempts at getting clean before it can stick.

My coach who is a wonderful human was in and out of jail with a pretty serious addiction and wound up homeless for a lot of his adult life, and luckily has found a support network at a local church and an owner of a gym who is willing to let him do some work for him and do private lessons, but he's told me more than once he feels 90% of people where he was won't get that help or won't take that help if offered. Its absolutely heart breaking.

[ahealy]

I think we can all agree Austin needs much much MUCH more affordable housing for every human being, along with proper mental health/drug addiction resources....which are usually a state funded can-o-worms.

This city has been out of control for some time now on housing....I think that's mainly why my enthusiasm has fallen low in the past few years.

[Riverranchdrone]

To answer some peoples questions about homelessness. YES some do choose to be homeless. They want to live off the grid and to break social norms. Tent cities are not that big of an issue. I drive past them all the time and lived next to them. Some upper class people do think it is an eye sore as they gaze from their private communities out of touch with society. Tent cities are here to state until we fix the many issues as a society in general. You will never get rid of them and it will cost way to much to even try. It is better to help those that we can with mental illness, affordability, and drug addiction. Let the few that remain that want to be homeless live in peace. Stop trying to hide it because it is an embarrassment to your rich out of town friends.

[KevinFromTexas]

It's not just an Austin problem, a big city problem or a left or right problem. I've seen it all over Texas. And then there's this:

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...him-to-austin/

AUSTIN (KXAN) — On Tuesday, the head of Austin’s police union posted a video to social media showing a Giddings Police Dept. officer dropping someone off at the Austin Resource Center for the Homeless.

Casaday, the Austin police union president, said agencies in surrounding counties routinely bring homeless individuals to Austin. KXAN has reached out to law enforcement agencies to verify his claim.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It's not just an Austin problem, a big city problem or a left or right problem. I've seen it all over Texas. And then there's this:

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...him-to-austin/

AUSTIN (KXAN) — On Tuesday, the head of Austin’s police union posted a video to social media showing a Giddings Police Dept. officer dropping someone off at the Austin Resource Center for the Homeless.

Casaday, the Austin police union president, said agencies in surrounding counties routinely bring homeless individuals to Austin. KXAN has reached out to law enforcement agencies to verify his claim.

I'll keep my Prop B thoughts to myself but can we please agree to never take anything Ken Casaday says at face value?

I'm a big union supporter but police unions are different animals and their spokespeople should often be treated with the same healthy skepticism that is usually reserved for major trade associations and other powerful interest groups. Casaday has long burned through any goodwill he's ever deserved IMO.

[papertowelroll]

For me the last straw was CoA / APD allowing camping throughout parks and along town lake. Underpasses are one thing, but letting it expand into parks (and the most prized ones at that) is a significant QoL detraction for regular citizens. It's bizarre that people in the city government think that this is acceptable policy.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by papertowelroll

For me the last straw was CoA / APD allowing camping throughout parks and along town lake. Underpasses are one thing, but letting it expand into parks (and the most prized ones at that) is a significant QoL detraction for regular citizens. It's bizarre that people in the city government think that this is acceptable policy.

When did they "allow camping throughout parks"?

All they did was repeal one specific law. They didn't remove Austin Park's curfews or make trespassing overnight in parks legal.

In fact, during the repeal they explicitly retained camping in parks as prohibited.

https://www.kut.org/austin/2019-06-2...e-homelessness


Edit/add:
https://www.austintexas.gov/departme...90619-spec.htm
https://www.austintexas.gov/edims/do....cfm?id=321210
"Additionally, all residents
must still follow city rules as it relates to parks, sidewalks, waterways, etc. Park curfews and park rules about not
camping, for example, would still apply. "

[KevinFromTexas]

It is happening, though. I've seen it along the hike & bike trail over by the Longhorn Dam and in the woods in South Austin around South Park Meadows. My brother and I go mountain bike riding in Mary Moore Searight Park and pop out behind South Park Meadows. We avoid the spots we know where the camps are because it's pretty isolated back in there.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It is happening, though. I've seen it along the hike & bike trail over by the Longhorn Dam and in the woods in South Austin around South Park Meadows. My brother and I go mountain bike riding in Mary Moore Searight Park and pop out behind South Park Meadows. We avoid the spots we know where the camps are because it's pretty isolated back in there.

Of course. It was illegal and still happened before, and it remains illegal and is still happening, and it will still be happening even if Prop B passes. Unless there's a massive increase in budget and enforcement to go along with it, which doesn't appear likely.

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Of course. It was illegal and still happened before,

Maybe, but definiltely not NEARLY as bad as it is now.

[lonewolf]

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/hom...kets-to-austin