Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Hybrid247]

Ya that's quite concerning. Seems RTG's subcontractors really botched the radiant floor heating installation.

[Catenary]

Is that rock salt or something else? In the past, when they needed to remove ice on platforms they used an alternative, I believe Calcium magnesium acetate which is $$$ but doesn't cause damage like rock salt.

But yes, it's clear that the platform radiant heat did not turn out like it was expected to.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Catenary

Is that rock salt or something else? In the past, when they needed to remove ice on platforms they used an alternative, I believe Calcium magnesium acetate which is $$$ but doesn't cause damage like rock salt.

But yes, it's clear that the platform radiant heat did not turn out like it was expected to.

That's why roofs were invented.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

That's why roofs were invented.

Roofs on their own don't keep the the temperature above the freezing point of water. Water will get onto the station platform one way or another (fall, blow or on peoples boots) and you need to prevent it from turning to ice when the temperature drops. Radiant heating of the platform is a good idea, it just seems as though something went wrong (it is difficult to fix when imbedded in poured concreate).

[MalcolmTucker]

And as a P3, think if you need to replace the radiant. You'd need to anyway at year 15, or 20. So now, just treat them like shit and run them into the ground but stay compliant to the contract with tonnes of salt. Then when you've destroyed the platform, you rebuild with working radiant.

[OTownandDown]

I noticed this at Hurdman as well. Not using salt was promoted as the reason for the radiant floor heating. Who's going to be responsible for fully replacing the platforms and crazy overhead structural steel (which is protected only by paint) in 30 years...

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I noticed this at Hurdman as well. Not using salt was promoted as the reason for the radiant floor heating. Who's going to be responsible for fully replacing the platforms and crazy overhead structural steel (which is protected only by paint) in 30 years...

Has RTG been notified?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I noticed this at Hurdman as well. Not using salt was promoted as the reason for the radiant floor heating. Who's going to be responsible for fully replacing the platforms and crazy overhead structural steel (which is protected only by paint) in 30 years...

I would have preferred that all the stations been enclosed that way salt wouldn't be needed.

[Kitchissippi]

Are there examples of the in-floor heat tracing working in the other stations? Are we even sure they were specified for all of them? The whole P3 process was so opaque.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Are there examples of the in-floor heat tracing working in the other stations? Are we even sure they were specified for all of them? The whole P3 process was so opaque.

I believe every station except the underground ones (possibly including St. Laurent) has it under the entire platform. It's divided into segments down the platform, and not all of it comes on at once. There are sensors in the concrete that detect moisture and turn the sections on (they look like brass discs).

Some of the sections have failed, and some of the sensors were also laid into the concrete slightly higher than the surrounding area so they dry off quickly and turn that section off. I have seen alternative precipitation sensors installed (there's one at Blair near bus stop "C") that might be used to override the in-platform sensors.

The only place I am aware of OC Transpo having previously used radiant heat was in the stairs at Carling Station.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I noticed this at Hurdman as well. Not using salt was promoted as the reason for the radiant floor heating. Who's going to be responsible for fully replacing the platforms and crazy overhead structural steel (which is protected only by paint) in 30 years...

The infrastructure has to be turned over in a certain condition dictated by the contract. It is something to pay attention to for sure, but it isn't something to worry about.

[sseguin]

O-Train Improvements and Enhancements - Interview with Pat Scrimgeour, Director of Transit Customer Systems and Planning - March 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my8-qwWoWXk

Ottawa's O-Train system continues to move forward with improvements and enhancements to better serve and support customers and passengers.

In this March 2021 interview with Pat Scrimgeour, Director of Transit Customer Systems and Planning, we discuss some of the improvements and enhancements that are being undertaken on the O-Train. Areas discussed include:

-Work to allow fare gates at stations and Presto readers on buses directly accepting credit cards and mobile payments.
-OC Transpo Presto and STO Multi Card usage on each-others networks.
-Real-Time Information Improvements.
-Station Retail.
-Advertising in Stations and Trains.
-Improvements to customer service, namely the social media channels of OC Transpo.


Subscribe to our channel: https://www.youtube.com/railfanscanada?sub_confirmation=1

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The infrastructure has to be turned over in a certain condition dictated by the contract. It is something to pay attention to for sure, but it isn't something to worry about.

This is what most politicians and CEO's of P3 conglomerates say at this point.

Just wait until it comes time for the handoff and a slick of paint, some caulking and a handshake precede 20 more years of legal fees for repair costs.

At the moment, there's lots of wooden elements, steel elements, concrete slabs, brick pavers, and other electrical systems that are fully coated in salt water. The finish is peeling off the wood first (can be seen at Hurdman 1st floor, where the wooden architectural elements come in contact with the ground...for some reason...), but soon the baseplates and columns for the large steel frames supporting the roofs of the stations will start to corrode as well, which is no simple fix. Plenty of elements could have been elevated above the water/salt spray, but it's hard to have that amount of coordination and foresight in the design phase, especially for new design staff who have no experience in restoring things once they fall apart.

I will give them one thing: The entire station lower floor at Hurdman is perfectly sloped to drain. That's no small feat when it's basically flat for several hundred feet. I'll wait to see if the pressure washing happens at the end of winter, to try to get all that salt off the structure.

[kmcamp]

While it would certainly be better if they didn't use rocksalt, on the other hand Transitway stations are good examples of glass, concrete and steel structures that have been continuously exposed to salt for the last 30 years, and OC did a good job of maintaining them over that time period.

They've had to do both minor and major repairs over that time frame, but they are generally in a good state of repair

[roger1818]

Do we even know for sure that they are using rock salt, and not some other ice melter? The only evidence I have seen is a picture of a white substance scattered on the platform.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

This is what most politicians and CEO's of P3 conglomerates say at this point.

Just wait until it comes time for the handoff and a slick of paint, some caulking and a handshake precede 20 more years of legal fees for repair costs.

At the moment, there's lots of wooden elements, steel elements, concrete slabs, brick pavers, and other electrical systems that are fully coated in salt water. The finish is peeling off the wood first (can be seen at Hurdman 1st floor, where the wooden architectural elements come in contact with the ground...for some reason...), but soon the baseplates and columns for the large steel frames supporting the roofs of the stations will start to corrode as well, which is no simple fix. Plenty of elements could have been elevated above the water/salt spray, but it's hard to have that amount of coordination and foresight in the design phase, especially for new design staff who have no experience in restoring things once they fall apart.

I will give them one thing: The entire station lower floor at Hurdman is perfectly sloped to drain. That's no small feat when it's basically flat for several hundred feet. I'll wait to see if the pressure washing happens at the end of winter, to try to get all that salt off the structure.

I don't disagree that some of the designs are terrible. They did actually botch Hurdman's drainage next to the Supervisor window, where water would pool just inside the fire door. They smashed out the concrete and relaid it forming a bit of a depression there last winter.

Deep cleaning is in the contract. They did pressure wash and clean all the windows with a boom lift last spring.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Do we even know for sure that they are using rock salt, and not some other ice melter? The only evidence I have seen is a picture of a white substance scattered on the platform.

Last winter they were using calcium magnesium acetate on the areas of the station that were supposed to be heated, like the platforms. One of the RTM folks mentioned how expensive it was. They were using blue ice melter in other interior areas, like the bridge at Blair. Rock Salt is used outside of the stations, and their contractor lays it on thick.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Light rail switch heater issue being solved using Ottawa design originally passed over

The City of Ottawa went with an electric model, which is now being replaced after not being able to handle winter weather.

about 2 hours ago By:

Mike Vlasve--City News

An Ottawa-based company is watching its switch heaters being installed on the city's O-Train system, two years after its bid for the original construction project was dismissed.

Switch heaters allow trains to switch tracks easily during cold weather months.

President of Hovey Industries Marco Campagna says the switch heaters they were building use natural gas or propane and the city wanted electric, but winters in the capital have proven not kind to the electric heaters installed along the Confederation Line, causing the city to look for an alternative.

Campagna says he'd never seen anything like the original procurement process for the light rail project.

"We weren't allowed to see the specification to understand what we were bidding to," he explains. "And then we found out later in the process -- not from [Rideau Transit Group], but from one of the sub-contractors -- that we didn't even qualify to bid because the technology they were originally specifying didn't include what we make. So we had to, sort of, scratch and claw our way into the process."

Campagna says the city ultimately took the word 'electric' out of the bidding process, but his company was still overlooked even though it provided switch heaters on the original north-south O-Train line and in Ottawa's Belfast Yards.

"Our units have been on pretty much every transit system in Canada -- Calgary transit, Edmonton, very proud to go into Union Station [in Toronto] and see Hovey products in there."

Campagna tells CityNews' The Rob Snow Show, the company that installed the electric switch heaters is actually very good, it's just that the decision by the City of Ottawa wasn't.

"I can't tell you whether [with] 100 per cent certainty I stamped my feet and told them that we were right, but being an Ottawa boy, understanding the environment -- in this particular case, we really thought they were going the wrong way on the main line."

Since the original bidding process, Campagna says Hovey switch heaters were sold to a Canadian company, which then sold them to Thermon Heating Systems, and that is who is now installing new switch heaters along Ottawa's Confederation Line.

Campagna doesn't want to say 'I told you so,' but he does acknowledge that he'll feel safer riding the O-Train in the winter months going forward.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Are there examples of the in-floor heat tracing working in the other stations? Are we even sure they were specified for all of them? The whole P3 process was so opaque.

And people said enclosed platforms with PSDs would have cost too much.

[J.OT13]

How walkable is Ottawa's O-Train, interactive map. The 15 minute waling area gives an idea of density (through pop within 15 minutes). Spoiler alert, about half the system serves areas with little density.

https://onedu.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=faae1c57849a40e6859d5ddce5e3eda0

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

How walkable is Ottawa's O-Train, interactive map. The 15 minute waling area gives an idea of density (through pop within 15 minutes). Spoiler alert, about half the system serves areas with little density.

https://onedu.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=faae1c57849a40e6859d5ddce5e3eda0

Thanks for sharing. They did a good job of showing real walking distances rather than just circles. They didn't get Algonquin Station right though. It shows what I have said, that a relatively small portion of the city is walkable to LRT.

The 5km map is pretty well not of any value at all and is more about politics (look at what we have done for you) rather than terribly useful to those considering using LRT. What would be more useful would be 30 minute and 60 minute maps for transit access similar to ones that were recently presented for the GTA. How far could you get by transit from various key locations within the specified time frame?