Halifax Active Transportation

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Certainly, we have many cult-like utopian urbanists today.

While it’s pretty clear I support some of their ideals, I’m generally not a fan of the spirit in which they’re carried out. Someone may tell you the urbanist ideals are about health, the environment, saving taxes and and overall quality of life. I would agree with those ideas but I think it overlooks an important point: these ideals are mostly about attracting investment.

While there’s nothing wrong with bringing much-needed investment to the downtown I think it comes at the cost of people’s enjoyment of the city, and fails to deliver on the original promises. Urban enthusiasts today may see Paris as some sort of ideal, but many forget Haussmann’s project was about ensuring social and economic stability. In fact, Robert Moses was inspired by the boulevard carving in Paris when writing his thesis. We think too much about what is planned, without improving how we plan.

Someone in Cole Harbour will have a very different ideal city compared to another person in the North End. A Haligonian will have an ideal different from the Vancouverite, New Yorker, Parisian or Shanghainese. Different generations have their own ideals too. Despite its flaws I think Halifax has done an okay job at allowing some local taste in new development. I just find a lot of developments meeting these urbanist ideals in other parts of the country ironically produce pretty mundane spaces.

Great points.

I feel like these "urbanists" don't even want urbanity (but in reality they love to exist counter to the "developers", even though they are the real gentrifiers.)

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

even though they are the real gentrifiers.

You’ve basically distilled my entire tirade into one line. Most don’t realize these “improvements” are about unlocking value for developers.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

You’ve basically distilled my entire tirade into one line. Most don’t realize these “improvements” are about unlocking value for developers.

See also, many trams in 'up and coming' cities that are basically loops for tourists and don't get working people to their jobs. Another reason I prefer BRT that actually serves a wide swath of Halifax to a flash single line of LRT or commuter rail.

[Dmajackson]

Every quarter Halifax releases an IMP Newsletter. The 2020 Q4 Issue has an update on quite a few AT projects. In 2021 four new additions to the Regional Centre AAA cycling facilities are planned to be added. I'm hoping more will get built but these four I'm excited about because one I use weekly for fun and two I use daily on my commute.

It's also nice to see the 43% increase in bike traffic on South Park Street. The counter is in Phase I just south of Spring Garden so the new bike lanes to the north and SGR Streetscaping should add to even more traffic in the near future.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by atbw

See also, many trams in 'up and coming' cities that are basically loops for tourists and don't get working people to their jobs. Another reason I prefer BRT that actually serves a wide swath of Halifax to a flash single line of LRT or commuter rail.

Yeah, BRT may lack the “wow factor” but would ultimately serve more.

I’ve had the opportunity to attend a webinar by Gil Penalosa earlier this year. He talked about how the BRT ridership outpaced Subways in many cities that had both. Funnily enough the bike lanes in his city of Bogotá were nicer and more expansive than ours despite being in the “global south”.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Funnily enough the bike lanes in his city of Bogotá were nicer and more expansive than ours despite being in the “global south”.

So would the weather in Bogota have anything to do with that?

[someone123]

BRT vs. trams/LRT/subway is really a moving target right now due to battery powered electrics and the long-term possibility of self-driving vehicles. The electric option today already makes buses much more attractive and removes one net benefit of trams.

In the long run I think a good transportation system for Halifax is going to involve a lot of different modes working together. Ferries, buses, small electric vehicles, bikes, pedestrians, and of course car and truck traffic remain important, plus the question of routing freight over rail vs. road still matters. I wonder if the city will find a good "mid-range" transportation option that's significantly nicer than buses but not as expensive as LRT or subway. High quality electrified BRT could serve that purpose.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

BRT vs. trams/LRT/subway is really a moving target right now due to battery powered electrics and the long-term possibility of self-driving vehicles. The electric option today already makes buses much more attractive and removes one net benefit of trams.

In the long run I think a good transportation system for Halifax is going to involve a lot of different modes working together. Ferries, buses, small electric vehicles, bikes, pedestrians, and of course car and truck traffic remain important, plus the question of routing freight over rail vs. road still matters. I wonder if the city will find a good "mid-range" transportation option that's significantly nicer than buses but not as expensive as LRT or subway. High quality electrified BRT could serve that purpose.

Interesting points, I completely agree and wonder the same thing.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

So would the weather in Bogota have anything to do with that?

No it has to do with how we choose to build and maintain them.

• Video Link

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

No it has to do with how we choose to build and maintain them.

• Video Link

Don't be ridiculous. This isn't Finland.

[Good Baklava]

Neat.

Looks like a great place for cars and bikes alike. Doesn't really fit that romantic image of a european city and looks more like be Saint John NB, or even Yellowknife.


Source: University of Oulu

Really reminds me of Yellowknife... Almost like a bigger version of the same city.


Source: Tawna Brown Photography

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

Looks like a great place for cars and bikes alike. Doesn't really fit that romantic image of a european city and looks more like be Saint John NB, or even Yellowknife.

I find that there is sometimes a kind of negative exceptionalism in Halifax and NS, with people there explaining why stuff that works somewhere else won't work there. I noticed it particularly from older people. Maybe the negativity is waning these days. I am not sure.

A lot of the reasons given like the city being too cold or too small for X, Y, Z don't hold much water when you zoom out a bit and look at places around the continent or the world. Halifax is not really a small town and its climate is not really that exceptional either.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I find that there is sometimes a kind of negative exceptionalism in Halifax and NS, with people there explaining why stuff that works somewhere else won't work there. I noticed it particularly from older people.

I think this is overstated a little. It's important to remember that a few strong opinions on an internet forum or some other online source does not necessarily reflect the experience of actually being here.

Or at least this hasn't been my personal observation (from people of any age, not that age should be a factor in the validity of opinions).

[someone123]

I was mostly talking about people I know or knew in NS including relatives, not internet comments, although I see echoes of the same kind of thinking from the local media and internet commenters sometimes (what was labelled a "culture of defeat" by Stephen Harper). For example when I was younger I heard that the local economy was quite bad and, really, if you were successful, you would move away. I moved for personal reasons and don't regret it, but I also have noticed that the ones who didn't move away did just fine. I think the people my age I know in Halifax have a higher living standard on average than the ones I know here (it's not even close, and I am talking about concrete things like home and car ownership or having children).

It used to be very common to hear that Halifax can't have glass buildings (heating bills too high), nice streetscaping (useless for most of the year and will be destroyed during snow clearance), or bike lanes (too much snow and ice everywhere all the time and too cold) due to climate. Tearing down heritage buildings was just accepted because, well, they're uneconomical and who would have the money to preserve them? Highrises? Transit? A stadium? Where do you think you are, Toronto?

I originally expected to find similar phenomena around Canada or other countries but, really, I have not. NS was unusually negative. In Western Canada you are much more likely to get a rose-tinted interpretation. Hopefully the norm in NS is already more balanced than it was when I lived there.

I also notice sometimes extreme cynicism and jealousy toward the "big bad city" from people in smaller towns or rural areas around NS and Atlantic Canada. I expected to see the same toxic attitude toward Toronto or Vancouver or San Francisco or wherever but I largely haven't.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by someone123

I find that there is sometimes a kind of negative exceptionalism in Halifax and NS, with people there explaining why stuff that works somewhere else won't work there. I noticed it particularly from older people. Maybe the negativity is waning these days. I am not sure.

I’m definitely guilty of the same thing at times.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I was mostly talking about people I know or knew in NS including relatives, not internet comments, although I see echoes of the same kind of thinking from the local media and internet commenters sometimes (what was labelled a "culture of defeat" by Stephen Harper). For example when I was younger I heard that the local economy was quite bad and, really, if you were successful, you would move away. I moved for personal reasons and don't regret it, but I also have noticed that the ones who didn't move away did just fine. I think the people my age I know in Halifax have a higher living standard on average than the ones I know here (it's not even close, and I am talking about concrete things like home and car ownership or having children).

It used to be very common to hear that Halifax can't have glass buildings (heating bills too high), nice streetscaping (useless for most of the year and will be destroyed during snow clearance), or bike lanes (too much snow and ice everywhere all the time and too cold) due to climate. Tearing down heritage buildings was just accepted because, well, they're uneconomical and who would have the money to preserve them? Highrises? Transit? A stadium? Where do you think you are, Toronto?

I originally expected to find similar phenomena around Canada or other countries but, really, I have not. NS was unusually negative. In Western Canada you are much more likely to get a rose-tinted interpretation. Hopefully the norm in NS is already more balanced than it was when I lived there.

I also notice sometimes extreme cynicism and jealousy toward the "big bad city" from people in smaller towns or rural areas around NS and Atlantic Canada. I expected to see the same toxic attitude toward Toronto or Vancouver or San Francisco or wherever but I largely haven't.

Fair enough. I can't comment as to your lived experience, but just noting from my experience that it seemed overstated.

Regarding a few points you made:

- My impression is that the "culture of defeat" was more a generalization from other parts of Canada, mostly from those who appear to get some comfort over keeping the Maritimes down a little (or in the case of federal politicians, to give them an out when they have not put in a good effort to support the Maritimes) - my perception only. It seems an attitude more derived from ignorance than actual experience, though.

- Many people have moved away for better opportunities, but that's a choice they made, not a necessity. I know many people who moved to Toronto for "better career opportunities", as many companies maintained large 'head offices' there, and were happy to have made the move. I have been to Toronto many many times for work and pleasure - and was offered an opportunity for advancement in my career several years ago, but I had to move to Toronto for it. I weighed the pros/cons and decided to stay here to enjoy the lifestyle I can have in Halifax vs the lifestyle offered by Toronto. Financially, I think that I made out better by staying due to the lower cost of living and other factors, but the real driver of my decision was that I was choosing to live where I want to live, and some 20 years later I am eternally grateful to my younger self that I made the decision that I did.

- I've never heard that nonsense about glass buildings, streetscapes, or bike lanes (except on this forum), so I can't comment to that. The Canada Permanent Building was built in 1961 as Halifax's first curtain wall structure (which was before my time), but I don't recall anybody disputing that it exists.

- The heritage building thing of course has long been a frustration of mine, but I've chalked it up to lack of appreciation and an innate sense of practicality that bluenosers seem to have in general - maybe that is negative exceptionalism? I dunno, I tend to think it's just lack of appreciation for heritage - like 'out with the old, in with the new' and let's move on. I often see this same struggle in other parts of Canada, in the media and on the skyscraper forum, so I'm thinking it's not a unique Halifax/NS thing.

- I can't comment towards "jealousy" towards the big bad city, but framing it as jealousy seems a little unusual. Disdain of rural people towards urban living perhaps? Does that not occur anywhere else in Canada? I thought it did.

Regardless, my intentions are not to dispute your assertions, nor your experience with "older people", just adding my . Because: internet forum.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

I was mostly talking about people I know or knew in NS including relatives, not internet comments, although I see echoes of the same kind of thinking from the local media and internet commenters sometimes (what was labelled a "culture of defeat" by Stephen Harper). For example when I was younger I heard that the local economy was quite bad and, really, if you were successful, you would move away. I moved for personal reasons and don't regret it, but I also have noticed that the ones who didn't move away did just fine. I think the people my age I know in Halifax have a higher living standard on average than the ones I know here (it's not even close, and I am talking about concrete things like home and car ownership or having children).

It used to be very common to hear that Halifax can't have glass buildings (heating bills too high), nice streetscaping (useless for most of the year and will be destroyed during snow clearance), or bike lanes (too much snow and ice everywhere all the time and too cold) due to climate. Tearing down heritage buildings was just accepted because, well, they're uneconomical and who would have the money to preserve them? Highrises? Transit? A stadium? Where do you think you are, Toronto?

I originally expected to find similar phenomena around Canada or other countries but, really, I have not. NS was unusually negative. In Western Canada you are much more likely to get a rose-tinted interpretation. Hopefully the norm in NS is already more balanced than it was when I lived there.

I also notice sometimes extreme cynicism and jealousy toward the "big bad city" from people in smaller towns or rural areas around NS and Atlantic Canada. I expected to see the same toxic attitude toward Toronto or Vancouver or San Francisco or wherever but I largely haven't.

Far be it for me to disagree with the opinions of my friend OldDartmouthMark but I find all of your observations pretty much spot-on.

Harper was perhaps the first to voice the term "Culture of Defeat" but it is something that has long been in evidence here. The attitude among many is that we are constantly held back by unseen nefarious forces from elsewhere, either by the Feds giving more favorable treatment and largesse to Ontario and Quebec, or the evil private sector keeping investment away from here in favor of other places and profiting by exploitation of people here. Look at the incessant coverage by the media of weekly gas price adjustments followed by the complaints about how they are always too high regardless of what they actually are. The main thing that contributes to this sort of behavior is the hard-done-by attitude that prevails among many here. People who truly believe they are being held back somehow by invisible forces tend to blame those things for whatever doesn't go their way.

I too have heard all the reasons you cite for why we can't have things or why some things just cannot be done here. Some of them are true - certainly the bike lane craze is a folly more than any sound investment given our hills and poor climate much of the time, combined with the total insanity of thinking that any substantial number of downtown office workers will be willing or able to use cycling as a viable means of commuting - and the EAC and their supporters decry glass buildings for energy waste and being a hazard to birds. And of course the phobia over tall buildings here, and in certain areas, any development at all, is perhaps unmatched, coupled with complaints about how any new development is only for the rich and that every new building consists of expensive condos for some seemingly wealthy demographic that suddenly appears to buy them up. A similar sort of thing is happening with the current craziness in the housing market which almost surely is a short-term thing but which is seen as a disaster having no upside and long-term negative consequences that require govt intervention. All one needs to do is visit the Halifax subreddit to see this attitude in full bloom. Part of that is due to the leftist/Marxist slant of many young people here thanks to the university presence but it is very much real.

One has not lived in NS until you have spent some time in Sydney and listened to the locals and their politicians going on about how Halifax gets everything and they get the scraps. It is accepted as a truism there. Overlooked are the billions that were poured into the black hole of Sydney Steel and Devco over the decades trying to keep a dying economy on life support, and the unwillingness to accept that the old heavy industry is never coming back. It is a beautiful area with people who can at times be quite lovely, but many of whom remain rooted in the past and harbor longstanding grievances for perceived past injustices and their lot in life.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Far be it for me to disagree with the opinions of my friend OldDartmouthMark but I find all of your observations pretty much spot-on.

Harper was perhaps the first to voice the term "Culture of Defeat" but it is something that has long been in evidence here. The attitude among many is that we are constantly held back by unseen nefarious forces from elsewhere, either by the Feds giving more favorable treatment and largesse to Ontario and Quebec, or the evil private sector keeping investment away from here in favor of other places and profiting by exploitation of people here. Look at the incessant coverage by the media of weekly gas price adjustments followed by the complaints about how they are always too high regardless of what they actually are. The main thing that contributes to this sort of behavior is the hard-done-by attitude that prevails among many here. People who truly believe they are being held back somehow by invisible forces tend to blame those things for whatever doesn't go their way.

I too have heard all the reasons you cite for why we can't have things or why some things just cannot be done here. Some of them are true - certainly the bike lane craze is a folly more than any sound investment given our hills and poor climate much of the time, combined with the total insanity of thinking that any substantial number of downtown office workers will be willing or able to use cycling as a viable means of commuting - and the EAC and their supporters decry glass buildings for energy waste and being a hazard to birds. And of course the phobia over tall buildings here, and in certain areas, any development at all, is perhaps unmatched, coupled with complaints about how any new development is only for the rich and that every new building consists of expensive condos for some seemingly wealthy demographic that suddenly appears to buy them up. A similar sort of thing is happening with the current craziness in the housing market which almost surely is a short-term thing but which is seen as a disaster having no upside and long-term negative consequences that require govt intervention. All one needs to do is visit the Halifax subreddit to see this attitude in full bloom. Part of that is due to the leftist/Marxist slant of many young people here thanks to the university presence but it is very much real.

One has not lived in NS until you have spent some time in Sydney and listened to the locals and their politicians going on about how Halifax gets everything and they get the scraps. It is accepted as a truism there. Overlooked are the billions that were poured into the black hole of Sydney Steel and Devco over the decades trying to keep a dying economy on life support, and the unwillingness to accept that the old heavy industry is never coming back. It is a beautiful area with people who can at times be quite lovely, but many of whom remain rooted in the past and harbor longstanding grievances for perceived past injustices and their lot in life.

Interesting set of observations Keith and I agree with most of them. I travel to Cape Breton for work and there is a definite sense of Halifax gets everything.The City keeping the Ice plants from the Oval only added to that as folks in C.B. apparently were under the impression that those Ice plants were going to be transferred to Glace Bay. Funny how the Feds 'found' 23 million to rebuild the 19 year old Bayplex recently. The only thing that seems to be working in C.B. are the business's at Membertou and the Golf courses around the Island. I agree with your lovely people observation but in my experience most of the best of Cape Breton have left.

The culture of defeat comment by Harper was defended by an Alberta native who had moved to N.S. and remarked at how we in the East look at things differently. He remarked that you ask an Albertan how to solve a problem and you get ten creative solutions. You ask someone from the East (that would include Ontario and Quebec not just the Maritimes ) and you would get ten reasons why no solutions should be tried.

Nova Scotia at the end of the day is really three separate Provinces. Cape Breton is a distinct entity and not just in geography but culture, politics and attitude. Mainland Rural N.S. is where the political power and decisions are usually made for the whole Province and sometimes to the detriment of the Province. What that part of the Province is going to have to contend with is the enlargement of what I would call the Greater Greater Halifax area. Draw a line From Bridgewater to Kingston in the valley over to Bible Hill and down to Musquodobit Harbor and that is where most of N.S.'s wealth , growth, population and opportunity is. The next ten years are only going to see that large area take off especially with the residual effects of Covid driven lifestyle choices.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Far be it for me to disagree with the opinions of my friend OldDartmouthMark

Ha ha... please do. Opinions are opinions and this is a discussion board! I guess I've been traveling in all the 'wrong' circles...

I don't do reddit or any other social media platform (unless this and other discussion forums are considered social media - I don't tend to think of them in that way), and I haven't really spent any significant time in Sydney and surrounds - so perhaps it's just that I haven't had the pleasure. Instead I've preferred to spend my Cape Breton time in the beautiful Cabot Trail and Baddeck areas and have always found the people there to be most pleasant.

My work travel has mainly been to Ontario, Japan, and multiple US locations - and have hosted colleagues from same. I have heard several times over the years from visitors that their expectations were low before they arrived but they were pleasantly surprised once they were here.

For the most part, the people I've worked with here have always been positive problem-solvers, and most I've worked with tend to bring a sense of 'joie de vivre' to their work - something I haven't experienced as much with my Ontario colleagues, to be honest. Once I visited the vast wasteland of cubicles and suppressed joy that is 'national office', I understood a little bit more...

My friends tend to be people who like to do things and enjoy life, and appreciate what they have rather than complain about what they don't. They are always looking forward to the next project, or where they are going to go on their next weekend or days off (in pre-covid times)... looking forward rather than backward. Get the most out of life now, because it's short and passes by before you realize it. I guess I've never really continued friendships with overly negative or backward-thinking people either. I don't care much for ignorance.

I don't really feel like I have to defend what I said, and it feels weird to have to explain it, but I've only ever looked at negativity as something that's not necessary... something to turn around rather than live in it. That's not to say I don't have negative moments (read my heritage building rants...), but I usually don't dwell in them for too long.

I do find that some of the posters in this forum do tend to dwell on the negative and ignore the positive, though not all of them live here (and there are also some really positive, engaging people here). One could think that this is a sign of negative Maritime culture, but then just go to the Canada forum, where the vitriol is in the order of 10 times greater than the Halifax section... so I tend to think it's an internet thing, not necessarily a 'people' thing.

Ah well... I appreciate reading everybody's thoughts on the matter - I enjoy reading about the experiences and perspectives of others. Thanks for responding and don't feel like you need to hold back on your opinions (not that you do... ).

[someone123]

I would not say that everybody is negative. It is more that the negative voices are more pronounced. It is noticeable in NS compared to around here. The extremists like Tim Bousquet or Peggy Cameron don't exist in the same way and don't get the same level of prominence, and the mushier middle of people (aligned roughly with Reddit, complaining about all condos etc.) is somewhat smaller.

I feel like Halifax "gets it from all angles" because of the combination of rivalry or jealousy and rural orientation within the region (made more intense by the fact that it's a kind of regional hub of an area with multiple provinces or regional identities) coupled with uninformed opinions from outside. This is noticeable on SSP Canada which I realize is not an accurate reflection of the real world. There's probably more negative posting about the city from people living elsewhere than direct posting from residents, and it is hard to offer even mild dissenting opinions without getting drawn into competitive battles that I would guess most people find unpleasant. It gets really bizarre with people from around the country following the news in other places to post negative stuff or taking potshots after somebody posts pictures. SSP Canada also has the more general problem of rising political polarization and the animus that brings.