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  #121  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Good Baklava View Post
I thought the Vuze was a good example since GB posted it made more fiscal sense to rent from the brand new George.
Could be but the landlords have an incentive to rent out the units. Either people rent them or they don't and prices fall. The market rate is by definition what people will pay for the unit. This accounts for renos too. If the unit is not nice enough to justify the price people will not pay. Landlords who renovate are following tenant preferences and adding value.

I think often the slumlord practices exist exactly because of either rent control type policies (no financial payoff to renovating) or restricted supply (no competition or alternative). There's some legitimate exploitation of tenants that can happen because moving is so disruptive and sometimes the landlords break agreements and that's where tenant protections come in. In my experience the enforcement of tenant rights is not very good around here, and landlords often are in breach of contracts or laws (for example I once had a landlord who would come into my suite without telling me, and bring surprise guests when doing unannounced showings). But I see that as separate from the question of whether or not there is such a thing as an "affordable housing" market that is separate from "unaffordable housing" and the developers must pick which of the categories to add housing to.
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  #122  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 9:48 PM
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Could be but the landlords have an incentive to rent out the units. Either people rent them or they don't and prices fall. The market rate is by definition what people will pay for the unit. This accounts for renos too. If the unit is not nice enough to justify the price people will not pay. Landlords who renovate are following tenant preferences and adding value.

I think often the slumlord practices exist exactly because of either rent control type policies (no financial payoff to renovating) or restricted supply (no competition or alternative). There's some legitimate exploitation of tenants that can happen because moving is so disruptive and sometimes the landlords break agreements and that's where tenant protections come in. In my experience the enforcement of tenant rights is not very good around here, and landlords often are in breach of contracts or laws (for example I once had a landlord who would come into my suite without telling me, and bring surprise guests when doing unannounced showings). But I see that as separate from the question of whether or not there is such a thing as an "affordable housing" market that is separate from "unaffordable housing" and the developers must pick which of the categories to add housing to.
It’s pretty clear that by renovating a unit you can capture what most people are willing to pay for a unit. But that’s not specifically referring to the people living with the building. Not many people would be happy to hear “We won’t renew your lease because we’re doing renovations”. I understand most tenants are given the option to move into another renovated unit in the same building, but usually they’re living in that place for the affordable rents anyway and would move somewhere cheaper. Replacing the flooring and cabinets will make the unit nicer, but doesn’t necessarily improve the quality of life.

Rent control is a whole other can of worms...
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  #123  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 10:00 PM
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We have rent control here and we had the "renoviction" loophole (I believe now partly closed). When tenants lived in a suite their rent increase was limited each year, and tenants could only be booted out for specific reasons, "renovation" being one reason. Lo and behold landlords would frequently do intensive renovations that required swapping in new tenants but didn't seem to result in any discernable improvement to the units.

A lot of tenants in my experience didn't understand what was going on, and bragged about how affordable their rent was relative to the wider market rate without realizing that it put a giant target on their back, and was the reason why the landlord never comes to fix that leaky faucet. This is all basically incentives and Econ 101.
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  #124  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 10:06 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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I agree. It is a concern. Sounds like it's time for citizens to be getting after their councillors and asking for answers.
My concern with councillors is specifically about their actions as members of the community councils which decide development matters.

When developers apply for approval of or amendments to development agreements, the community council’s function is very clearly spelled out in law, and it’s defined quite narrowly: the council may only deny the application if it finds - and it must do so based only on the evidence before it - that the agreement does not reasonably carry out the intent of the Municipal Planning Strategy.

The applications are accompanied by reports from HRM planning staff which recommend that the council either approve or deny, but their recommendations are not binding on council - the decision is solely the councillors’ to make. That’s as it should be. The problem is HOW the decision is made.

Unfortunately, our councillors either don’t understand their role and its limitations, or they do but just don’t care, and instead simply treat the applications - part of which are public hearings - as opportunities to grandstand and pander to voters. Too often they ignore the specific matters at issue and introduce spurious and irrelevant “evidence”, substitute their own ill-informed opinions or imaginings, or those of their loudest constituents, for facts which have already been already established and are not in dispute, or simply invent irrelevant issues out of thin air. Often they don’t even bother to reference the MPS, compliance with which is supposed to be the very basis of their decisions. But councillors don’t seem to care, so long as they’ve flaunted their own development “expertise” and put on the appropriate dog-and-pony show for voters and media, regardless of the facts.

The result, often enough, is that a community council denies an application which has no legal basis for denial. Developers, having already sunk time and money into the project, then have to decide whether to take another run at it by tweaking their application to somehow mollify the council and public, or forge ahead with an appeal to the Utility and Review Board.

In appeals to the UARB, the parties are the developer as appellant and HRM as respondent. Lately, HRM has barely even played a role at the Board hearings, though they’re obliged to be there, of course. HRM hasn’t seriously challenged the developers’ evidence, but, more to the point, the municipality also hasn’t offered any evidence in defence of the community council decisions. And that's for the best of reasons: there IS no valid defence to the councillors’ boneheaded decisions. As a result, these appeals to the UARB have become essentially unopposed applications which the developers nonetheless are obliged to make. HRM just tags along as a spectator to the adjudicative autopsy of the councillors' handiwork.

There are two really good recent examples of this, and if one is interested enough to invest the time, the UARB decisions in Re Hatchet Lake Plaza and Re Cresco Holdings Ltd. make interesting reading. Cresco, which was just decided on March 23, also includes some discussion about Hatchet Lake Plaza and can be found at:

https://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nsuarb/doc/2021/2021nsuarb34/2021nsuarb34.html

In Cresco the developer was seeking a technically necessary but truly minor - even trivial - amendment to its development agreement. Staff recommended without any hesitation that the amendment be approved, and the hearing should have been a largely pro forma exercise.. The application was a little unusual because the property in question straddles the boundary between two districts, which meant that the developer actually had to seek the approval of two community councils: North West, and Halifax and West. A "no" from either one of them would kill the application. And true to form, our intrepid councillors found a way to kill the application. On appeal, on the basis of the facts and the law (as opposed to councillors' idle musings), the UARB wasted no time ordering the councils to approve the application.

For those who’d prefer not to read the whole decision, just consider these selected nuggets from the Board’s comments:

“Despite the staff recommendation, the Community Councils refused the amendment, citing reasons including a lack of active transportation; traffic concerns; transit and pedestrian concerns; environmental concerns, including increased greenhouse gas emissions and the impact on Kearney Lake; and stormwater management concerns...”

“...the task before the Community Councils was to consider the specific application before it and to exercise its authority guided by the relevant policies in the MPS. In this case, the reasons provided by the Community Councils made no attempt to connect the general concerns they identified to specific polices in HRM’s MPS or the existing development agreement...”

“The reasons provided by the Community Councils also appear disconnected from the limited scope of the amendment requested by Cresco. No evidence was presented to the Board in this appeal to reasonably conclude the proposed change to the development agreement would result in impacts touching upon the identified concerns that were materially different than they would be for development already allowed under the current development agreement...”

“This is not a case where there are judgment calls to be made with respect to ambiguous MPS provisions or the exercise of discretion pursuant to such policies. This is a case where there is no evidentiary basis to support the North West Community Council’s ultimate decision..”

“The Board finds that there is no factual evidence before it, or expert opinion evidence, to substantiate that the proposed amendments will generate environmental concerns, or increased stresses on Kearney Lake. As such, the Board concludes that the proposed amendments are consistent with the MPS and the current development agreement. There was no evidence presented by HRM, and no legal arguments were raised, or discovered in the Board’s own review, to establish the contrary proposition”

“The [councils’]decision does not indicate which MPS Policies, or which provisions of the development agreement, the expressed concerns were meant to address in the context of the amendments requested in Cresco’s application.“

“No evidence contrary to that provided by Cresco, or the policy review undertaken by staff, was offered by HRM during the hearing. As with stormwater, there is no evidentiary basis for finding that the proposed amendments are contrary to the MPS. There are also no facts, opinions, or legal arguments to sustain the proposition that a denial of the application by either Community Council, based on wastewater considerations, would be consistent with the MPS.”

“The Board finds the Community Council decisions do not reasonably carry out the intent of HRM’s MPS. The appeal is allowed, and the Community Councils are ordered to approve the proposed amendment to the development agreement.”

I could add even more, but you get the point. In effect, what the UARB said, in the most civil way possible, was that the councillors ignored both the law and their responsibilities, and simply didn’t do their jobs. Again.

This whole pathetic charade is not just simply wrong. It’s terribly and needlessly wasteful of the time and resources of property owners, HRM planners and legal staff, and the UARB, which has more than enough other important work on its plate and other “real” litigants awaiting their turns. And of course, appeals to the Board entail additional costs for lawyers and, typically, expert witnesses (most often engineers). Those are costs which appellants cannot recover from HRM if they win - it’s just "too bad, so sad, eat the cost and piss off". Finally, they can never recover the construction time, including potential market opportunity, lost to what should have been an unnecessary appeal, foisted on them by politicians pulling cheap stunts. It’s disgraceful.

Can’t wait to see what Halifax and West Community Council does with Richmond Yards, which HRM planning staff have recommended they approve.

“WHAT? THIRTY STOREYS? IT’S TOO TALL!”

Last edited by Saul Goode; Mar 28, 2021 at 6:21 PM.
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
This whole pathetic charade is not just simply wrong. It’s terribly and needlessly wasteful of the time and resources of property owners, HRM planners and legal staff, and the UARB, which has more than enough other important work on its plate and other “real” litigants. And of course, appeals to the Board entail additional costs for lawyers and, typically, expert witnesses (most often engineers). Those are costs which appellants cannot recover from HRM if they win - it’s just too bad, so sad, eat the cost and piss off. Finally, they can never recover the construction time, including potential market opportunity, lost to what should be an unnecessary appeal, foisted on them by politicians. It’s disgraceful.
Yes, you make a good point, and this is not new. It has been going on for decades. Many people think it is up to the councillors to make a decision based on their preferences but in the end the UARB will interpret the relevant rules and decide if they were reasonably followed. The developments almost always end up being approved, assuming the developers push through. Presumably this is because they get legal advice.

I thought the Centre Plan would put an end to the silly process. My impression is that it will but a lot of the projects we're seeing right now are still working their way through the old process.
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 10:29 PM
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I saw saw posted on Developments Halifax that that ugly long building next to Maxwell's Plum is being torn down.... what is planned here? I don't remember seeing anything. Now, maybe the old red wall will be covered..... Any know what is going here?
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 11:08 PM
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A lot of tenants in my experience didn't understand what was going on, and bragged about how affordable their rent was relative to the wider market rate without realizing that it put a giant target on their back, and was the reason why the landlord never comes to fix that leaky faucet. This is all basically incentives and Econ 101.
We can say tenants are naive about the reality of the market, but I firmly believe the more we put faith in the market the more power it has. I worry that market-worship has become an excuse to stop questioning the world around us. By narrowing our focus on Econ 101, we miss out on Humanism 101.

That's just my opinion , I'm certainly no philosopher or economist.
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 11:17 PM
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I saw saw posted on Developments Halifax that that ugly long building next to Maxwell's Plum is being torn down.... what is planned here? I don't remember seeing anything. Now, maybe the old red wall will be covered..... Any know what is going here?
I forget the exact name of it, but it was a central facility used by one or a consortium of banks to clear cheques. So cheques cashed/deposited at bank branches were bundled and shipped there for scanning and posting to the appropriate accounts. Back when people used a lot of cheques it was a very busy and very secure place. I imagine these days volumes are a fraction of what they used to be, so I can see why it may be going away.
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 11:33 PM
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Construction tends to turn today's high end unit into tomorrow's midrange unit and today's midrange unit into tomorrow's low end unit. Summer Gardens and Garden Crest for example were at the high end at one point but I don't think they have the same level of amenities as Curve and Pavilion. I wonder where Parc Vic was originally. My impression is that Spring Garden Terrace was high end. Many of these buildings are still more expensive than average because of location but the transition can be analogous to $3,000 a month vs. $2,000 a month today.
I was just a little kid in the 1960s but my Dad was in the real estate business and knew many of the developers of the day, so it was often a topic of discussion at home. In the early to mid '60s there was a big change in Halifax when a few "high rise" apartments were proposed and built. Park Victoria was the most ambitious, while Spring Garden Terrace and Embassy Towers, both on SGR, were a bit more prestigious. Those were the three main ones I recall from that era. By today's standards they were pretty ordinary. The apartments were not huge unless you ponied up for the penthouses or largest apartments. The buildings themselves didn't have A/C or very much in the way of amenities. Park Vic quickly became popular with med students who had a bit more spending money and could afford such a place. The ones on SGR didn't become popular with students until later on, and were more of the kind of place where old South End money moved after they no longer had a need for a big old house.

Time has changed all that of course. Park Vic is, I understand, now home to many govt-funded cases in need of housing and is afflicted with the entire gamut of rodents and pests. Embassy (now condos) and the Terrace are both badly in need of maintenance.
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2021, 11:34 PM
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I forget the exact name of it, but it was a central facility used by one or a consortium of banks to clear cheques. So cheques cashed/deposited at bank branches were bundled and shipped there for scanning and posting to the appropriate accounts. Back when people used a lot of cheques it was a very busy and very secure place. I imagine these days volumes are a fraction of what they used to be, so I can see why it may be going away.
Used to be Symcor, processing cheques for a few of the major banks.

According to their website they have moved into Scotia Square Duke Tower, they've innovated my processing a lot of e-payments and international wire transfers too.

Really excited to see what is going to go up here, I hope it's something substantial. What is the max height of this lot in the center plan? 8-10 stories?
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2021, 4:05 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
My concern with councillors is specifically about their actions as members of the community councils which decide development matters.

...
Snipped the quote for length.

Very interesting read. How can this still be happening with nothing done about it, even after the Centre Plan?

I was half serious with my previous comment. Perhaps some concerned citizens should be making phone calls to councillors after witnessing such waste as you've described... or going to the media. The truth is, with such low vacancy rates we do have a housing crisis, and it won't get any better when it takes so long to get buildings approved when they obviously should be. And our population is still growing.

For all of the virtue signalling I hear some councillors doing, how can they justify holding back development that would get people into homes, when things have become so dire?
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 11:27 AM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Used to be Symcor, processing cheques for a few of the major banks.

According to their website they have moved into Scotia Square Duke Tower, they've innovated my processing a lot of e-payments and international wire transfers too.

Really excited to see what is going to go up here, I hope it's something substantial. What is the max height of this lot in the center plan? 8-10 stories?
This one is not within the Centre Plan area; it’s in DT Halifax.

Dexel owns the lot to I expect it to be a pretty good development.
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  #133  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 4:15 PM
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They are busy digging out what appears to be another crane base. This one will be on the southwest corner at St. Alban's and Clifton.


Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)
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  #134  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 2:09 AM
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Nice to see this project coming along. Are we still on for the 30-story tower that was proposed years back?
Before the huge demo at this project there was a bus depot - sightseeing coaches and such. Where did that move to?
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  #135  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 10:02 PM
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Nice to see this project coming along. Are we still on for the 30-story tower that was proposed years back?
Before the huge demo at this project there was a bus depot - sightseeing coaches and such. Where did that move to?
It doesn't seem like anything has changed. It was approved by community council recently. The media coverage is the usual weird stuff centered around arbitrary comments about what seems to be an okay height or not and the usual mix of stuff about traffic (without any appreciation for where people are supposed to live in the region) and shadows, but apparently municipal staff indicated that the proposal seems to reasonably fit within the development rules in place when this was proposed. In other words the developer is likely ultimately to get approval from the UARB if staff are correct. Not sure if they'd be able to get approval for a slightly shorter tower then take the full-scale proposal to the UARB and continue construction in the interim.

I hope this doesn't end up being one of those silly examples where a few floors get chopped off for no clear reason, resulting in some mix of bulkier development or less new residential space built. There is a substantial setback between the main tower and nearby residential buildings that aren't a part of this development.

Also interesting to note how the plan has some townhouses close to the 30 storey tower. Conventional widsom is that these townhouses will never sell or will sell for strongly depressed values because they are in an undesirable location, and so developers must be idiots for creating this sort of design.
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 11:36 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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It doesn't seem like anything has changed. It was approved by community council recently.
When was it approved? Halifax and West Community Council just met on 30 March and the minutes indicate that all the council did was give notice that the development agreement would be considered, not that it actually did so:

"8.1.3 Case 20871: Development Agreement for Lands located at Almon and St. Albans, Halifax

The following was before Community Council:

• A staff recommendation report dated March 10, 2021

MOVED by Councillor Mason, seconded by Councillor Cuttell

THAT Halifax and West Community Council give notice of motion to consider the proposed development agreement, as set out in Attachment A of the staff report dated March 10, 2021, to develop a mixed-use development on lands located on Almon Street and St. Albans Street, and schedule a public hearing.

MOTION PUT AND PASSED."

So actual consideration of the development agreement, including a public hearing, has yet even to be scheduled.

Quote:
...apparently municipal staff indicated that the proposal seems to reasonably fit within the development rules in place when this was proposed. In other words the developer is likely ultimately to get approval from the UARB if staff are correct. Not sure if they'd be able to get approval for a slightly shorter tower then take the full-scale proposal to the UARB and continue construction in the interim.
Why "approval from the UARB"? The UARB wouldn't have any involvement in the process unless the community council were to decline to approve the development agreement and the developer chose to appeal to the Board.

I confess I'm mystified by how work on the site can continue to progress without approval of the development agreement, unless the only work going on is on "as of right" aspects of the project. Perhaps some more knowledgeable member of the forum can shed some light on that.
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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 11:39 PM
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Could be. I was basing that off of some articles I read. I no longer have the links.

The UARB is relevant as far as the probable outcome is concerned. Even if the community council says no that is not the final word. From what I read municipal staff indicated that they think the development reasonably follows the relevant planning rules, i.e. UARB would likely rule in favour. If this is true then the choice before council is whether or not to impose a "tax" in time and cost, not whether to approve or not.
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 11:48 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Even if the community council says no there's no guarantee this can't be built as proposed.
True, and this very community council has a history of ignoring the law and its responsibilities in considering development agreements.

Speaking of which, the first substantive item of business on the 30 March agenda was approval of the Hatchet Lake service station/convenience store/drive-thru restaurant on Prospect Road which council recently was ordered to do by the UARB. I could enjoy gloating about that if the UARB appeal wasn't such a shameful, needless waste of the developer's time and money and the Board's time and resources, necessitated only by the council's clown show antics.
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2021, 11:16 AM
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True, and this very community council has a history of ignoring the law and its responsibilities in considering development agreements.

Speaking of which, the first substantive item of business on the 30 March agenda was approval of the Hatchet Lake service station/convenience store/drive-thru restaurant on Prospect Road which council recently was ordered to do by the UARB. I could enjoy gloating about that if the UARB appeal wasn't such a shameful, needless waste of the developer's time and money and the Board's time and resources, necessitated only by the council's clown show antics.
It is quite remarkable how getting elected to Council based upon an eye-catching roadside sign design used in an election campaign and little else of substance can cause a fry-cook, radio DJ, concert promoter or a home care assistant to suddenly get a puffed-up belief that they are experts in municipal land use issues and are somehow qualified to make multi-million-dollar decisions.
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  #140  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2021, 10:35 AM
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I don’t expect Council to turn this down.
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