Hamilton Urban Core Community Health Centre | ? | 2 fl | Planning

[TheHonestMaple]

See the problem with sites like this is it doesn't provide them with the help they need, it simply enables them. Anyway, I'll take this discussion to another forum as you'd like. But that won't change the fact that places like this make Hamilton a less desirable place to develop more housing, not more.

[johnnyhamont]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Anyway, I'll take this discussion to another forum as you'd like.

It's a conversation that's definitely worth having, even if this isn't the best place for it. Feel free to share a link to the place you'd like to keep it going if you don't mind others of us joining.

[Hawrylyshyn]

It's going to happen whether sites like this exist or not. Personally, I'd rather them have a safe place like this to do it rather than in parks and alleys where they leave behind dangerous needles.

I wouldn't say it makes it less desirable. Either way people with drug addictions are going to be in these communities. Facilities like this don't promote drug use or cause people to start.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

It's going to happen whether sites like this exist or not. Personally, I'd rather them have a safe place like this to do it rather than in parks and alleys where they leave behind dangerous needles.

I wouldn't say it makes it less desirable. Either way people with drug addictions are going to be in these communities. Facilities like this don't promote drug use or cause people to start.

Very well put. No sober man wakes up one day and just decides to become addicted to heroin. Facilities like these break addictions, not make them.

Also if you guy's'd like to carry on with this somewhere else I'm down.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Also - this isn't going to be on the site of the current building, the address is 430 Cannon Street East. So it's a fair way away from the new park

[TheRitsman]

If you believe that advertising and propaganda works on people, then you should believe this type of facility can convince and offer services to reduce or stop dependency on these drugs. Nobody is helped by shooting up in an alley, where if they have this spot, they can be offered services. It's the same situation as offering abortion services legally. Places that legalize abortions have lower rates of abortion, and less death by abortion. If the goal is less abortion, you should be pro-choice. Similarly, it you think drug users are humans and not animals, you shouldn't wish them death, and you should support services that offer support to quit if they want to.

It's not just me saying this. This is supported by evidence. I used to disagree with giving people space too, but then I read the research that showed it actually helps and I changed my tune.

Now ensuring these people don't collect around the space and cause violence and other issues in the neighborhood is important, but the facility itself is good.

Also with regards to discussing this topic here. I disagree. Firstly, this is a forum that has sports and gaming threads, so this isn't just a building and architecture forum. And this discussion is directly related to the development proposed in this thread. Again. If we only discussed pictures, design, and that's it, then we'd have very little to talk about. What is considered infrastructure? Parking, bicycle parking, can we talk about trees here? Who are you or anyone to decide what we can talk about so long as it's related to the development.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Also with regards to discussing this topic here. I disagree. Firstly, this is a forum that has sports and gaming threads, so this isn't just a building and architecture forum. And this discussion is directly related to the development proposed in this thread. Again. If we only discussed pictures, design, and that's it, then we'd have very little to talk about. What is considered infrastructure? Parking, bicycle parking, can we talk about trees here? Who are you or anyone to decide what we can talk about so long as it's related to the development.

I may disagree with you on the development and it's benefits. But I fully agree with you here. We should be able to discuss all aspects of a development in this thread, not just the architecture...

Anyway, for those that feel strongly against discussing the topic here. I've created a more general thread here.

[TheRitsman]

https://www.ohtn.on.ca/Pages/Knowled...ectiveness.pdf

Another side benefit is less needles in parks and streets, and less HIV spread.

[LikeHamilton]

I don't know what the problem is. This place has been around for 20 years on Rebecca St and John (1.3 km away as the crow fly's). The injection site is very new and I believe it's temporary based on funding and may not come with it. As to their service, they are a medical service for people who do not have a doctor. It is like a walk in clinic except you can make appointment and see the same doctor eveytime. They deal with new immigrants that don't have a doctor yet. It is a very important service in that part of the city. Just don't get fixated on what is only a small part of their good work. This is a welcome improvement to what they already have and do. They should have made it larger but there is only so much money.

[Markus83]

hmmmmm....and yet many posts after initially put point blank, that this type of conjecture or opinion is to be referred else where..right. Way to stick to your guns peeps. Jeesh, I for one think it's a great infill on a site that has been quite decrepit for sometime now. I very much like the architectural design they got going on. One Love Steel City.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Markus83

hmmmmm....and yet many posts after initially put point blank, that this type of conjecture or opinion is to be referred else where..right. Way to stick to your guns peeps. Jeesh, I for one think it's a great infill on a site that has been quite decrepit for sometime now. I very much like the architectural design they got going on. One Love Steel City.

Some people here specifically said the conversation should go elsewhere. I and others disagreed. The people thinking this is off-topic are no less the authority than I or others.

My biggest issue with taking the conversation elsewhere is this forum has maybe 30 active users. The threads elsewhere die after a while and never come back alive. You can't have 50 or 60 active threads with a 15-30 user forum.

The only people annoyed by off topic discussion are like 3 people. Of the 15 that post regularly. Honestly, if you're not interested you can just come back when we're back on the topic you care about, or not respond creating unnecessary drama.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Some people here specifically said the conversation should go elsewhere. I and others disagreed. The people thinking this is off-topic are no less the authority than I or others.

My biggest issue with taking the conversation elsewhere is this forum has maybe 30 active users. The threads elsewhere die after a while and never come back alive. You can't have 50 or 60 active threads with a 15-30 user forum.

The only people annoyed by off topic discussion are like 3 people. Of the 15 that post regularly. Honestly, if you're not interested you can just come back when we're back on the topic you care about, or not respond creating unnecessary drama.

Well said.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

It's not just me saying this. This is supported by evidence. I used to disagree with giving people space too, but then I read the research that showed it actually helps and I changed my tune.

Now ensuring these people don't collect around the space and cause violence and other issues in the neighborhood is important, but the facility itself is good.

I agree with TheRitsman, I have changed my tune on these facilities as well from being outspoken against them to being supportive based on the medical/scientific evidence.

It already exists downtown in a decrepit building right across from our newest park and where tons of condo intensification is happening. This is a good thing, the location is being moved to a more appropriate area and they are getting a vastly improved medical facility that actually looks quite beautiful in the render.

This is a win for the city. And yes this a discussion that should happen here, I don't feel it should be moved elsewhere!

[Crapht]

Of course this facility provides a valuable service. It is most certainly more than a safe-injection site. If people can discuss future tenants in any proposal then we can discuss the tenant and service in this one. Personally, as far as I'm concerned, HolyWayne can go troll somewhere else or offer an opinion of some slight degree of value. Nice introduction there. "Hi I'm HolyWayne and I'm new here. Now do what I say" Try again.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Crapht

Of course this facility provides a valuable service. It is most certainly more than a safe-injection site. If people can discuss future tenants in any proposal then we can discuss the tenant and service in this one. Personally, as far as I'm concerned, HolyWayne can go troll somewhere else or offer an opinion of some slight degree of value. Nice introduction there. "Hi I'm HolyWayne and I'm new here. Now do what I say" Try again.

Dont kill me

[davidcappi]

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

From last night's community consultation meeting

Anyone know the architect here?

[ZTrade]

This is 300 meters from an elementary school (Cathy Wever Elementary). Are injection sites allowed to be that close to a school? I tried googling and the only results that were coming up was covid vaccination stuff.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ZTrade

This is 300 meters from an elementary school (Cathy Wever Elementary). Are injection sites allowed to be that close to a school? I tried googling and the only results that were coming up was covid vaccination stuff.

I don't really get the "think of the children" motives behind most protectionism. Are 7 year old kids going to start shooting up because they saw a homeless guy do it? Better still that guy should be inside, hidden from the children. The health centre and safe injection site on Rebecca, many people don't even know what the build is used for.

The people nearby don't typically bother children, and what are they going to to mug a 9 year old for their gummies?

They probably don't have a minimum distance at all because they didn't think it would be a problem. Add to that Hamilton is hell to walking children, it's doubtful many kids would come nearby because they'll likely be bused or driven. I'd bet if there is a limit, it's around 150m or 250m so it's not right on top of the school.

Also mission services is literally adjacent to the elementary school.

[johnnyhamont]

Originally Posted by davidcappi

Anyone know the architect here?

Tillmann Ruth Robinson

[johnnyhamont]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Also mission services is literally adjacent to the elementary school.

Not just some Mission Services food services or offices, either. Their drug treatment programs are run out of that building immediately across the small parking lot from Cathy Wever. i've never heard any issues arising from there.