HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #16601  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 3:53 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Yeah, there's a bit of a broken T formed by Wellington, Elgin as far south as Lisgar and Sussex as far north as the National Gallery that feels pretty regal.

It feels like the right amount of pomp for the capital city of a decentralized mid-sized country that was a small dominion until 90 years ago.

Ottawa also has Brasilia and Canberra-like suburban capital qualities in the inner suburbs, particularly along the Ottawa River Parkway and Riverside.
Canberra-on-the-Rideau:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3803954,...FgIxu9qURKs_cNlmnT7rA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #16602  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 3:54 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
Having moved from Calgary to Ottawa way back in 2001 the first thing that struck me was how much older Ottawa seemed. Both in terms of the monumental buildings but also stuff in the Market and neighbourhoods that (at the time) seemed quite far from downtown. At the same time the downtown itself was a bit more underwhelming.

While certainly not to the same extent as Calgary, Ottawa has changed a fair amount since then. The last 10 years in particular have resulted in an Ottawa that doesn't seem as... boring as it once was. I actually look forward to checking out certain restaurants/bars when visiting the in-laws in Ottawa now (or will, I guess - been on pause for a while).
As a central-eastern Canadian, all of the Prairie region feels very new-ish to me.

It's only when I get to Vancouver that I think "OK, this feels a bit more familiar".
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #16603  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 3:58 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The potholes add a Canadian touch.
     
     
  #16604  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 4:26 PM
zahav zahav is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As a central-eastern Canadian, all of the Prairie region feels very new-ish to me.

It's only when I get to Vancouver that I think "OK, this feels a bit more familiar".
That's interesting that you would think Vancouver seems more familiar to someone from the East, to me it seems really different from eastern cities. And prairie cities like Winnipeg seem older than Vancouver, definitely not new-ish to me. But it's all perspective
     
     
  #16605  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 5:00 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 28,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post
That's interesting that you would think Vancouver seems more familiar to someone from the East, to me it seems really different from eastern cities. And prairie cities like Winnipeg seem older than Vancouver, definitely not new-ish to me. But it's all perspective
I've never been to Alberta of Saskatchewan, so I can't speak to much to those cities, but I'd definitely say that Winnipeg has a more Ottawa feel (and eastern Canada in general) than Vancouver.

Vancouver is very modern, with a few historic gems like Gastown and Yaletown. The public realm and active transportation feels miles ahead, the built-form is more human scale thanks to generous set-backs of towers. The city felt complete, as opposed to say Ottawa or Montreal that are continuously under construction.
     
     
  #16606  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 5:08 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 35,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It's only when I get to Vancouver that I think "OK, this feels a bit more familiar".
Vancouver's interesting in that it is a railway-era city but it has that maritime economic connection as a modern port. Victoria grew up a bit during the older maritime colonial period, when the people running the show were British officers who sailed around the world and might have also spent time in Calcutta or Melbourne. For BC that was kind of like what the French colonial period was for Quebec; it left its historical mark but not a lot of direct physical legacy.

The "east vs. west" model of Canada is rough. Southern Canada has approximately 5 physical regions. Pacific coast, mountains, plains, Great Lakes basin, Atlantic coast. Coastal BC is physically most like NS, by a pretty big margin, but people in BC tend not to notice this or consider it kind of unsexy.
     
     
  #16607  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 6:31 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842

Mid March by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Winter Summer by Chadillaccc, on Flickr
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
     
     
  #16608  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 6:49 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Vancouver's interesting in that it is a railway-era city but it has that maritime economic connection as a modern port. Victoria grew up a bit during the older maritime colonial period, when the people running the show were British officers who sailed around the world and might have also spent time in Calcutta or Melbourne. For BC that was kind of like what the French colonial period was for Quebec; it left its historical mark but not a lot of direct physical legacy.
.
I think the historic maritime connection is probably a big part of it. All of the big cities except Ottawa (and many of the smaller ones) in central-eastern Canada have a "port" aspect to them. Even Toronto and Hamilton have that.

And even in Ottawa, you don't have to go that far down the road (to Montreal) in order to get that feel. To the point where it rubs off on Ottawa to some degree.

To the person who talked about Winnipeg, yes I'd agree that it's kind of an in-between. In some ways it's Ontario-ish, but it still feels a lot like a totally new world Prairie city in its urban form and feel and especially the geography surrounding it feels quite different to me.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #16609  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 6:58 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 35,652
Economically most Canadian cities are pretty similar, and Vancouver fits within that overall cluster. Mostly a mix of trading on the primary industries of the province, real estate, assorted services and light industry, regional offices of the Canadian oligopoly companies, some American branch plants (lately tech), the port, universities, hospitals.

Jane Jacobs wrote, probably back in the 70's or 80's, that there's Toronto and Montreal for value-added products and then every other city in Canada, and that Vancouver was mostly based on shipping out primary industrial products and so was similar in economic base to Thunder Bay even if larger in scale. That thinking was never completely bang on and is outdated today (more economic diversity around the country now, decline of Montreal as national hub) yet there was a lot of truth to it, and the cities that formerly mostly had that industrial base have tended to evolve in a similar direction. The US is quite different, with a lot of cities dominated by major employers that serve some national or international niche.

I think if you build a trio of economic base, physical geography, and time of settlement, you get pretty close to determining what the different Canadian cities are like.
     
     
  #16610  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 9:25 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
North of Gilead
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North of Gilead
Posts: 11,051
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Ottawa is not going to be a Paris or Tokyo but I think Canadians often undersell their country. We have one of the biggest economies in the world and only a few major cities. We could afford nicer landscaping in Ottawa, and just a few hours down the road Quebec City looks nicer. I'd guess that most of the shortcomings have more to do with nuts and bolts of how the NCC/feds, municipality, and province operate, and what the norms of the public realm were like in Canada from about the 80's up until recently. In most of the country this wasn't on the radar, and cities were busy retrofitting their cores with quasi-suburban road infrastructure. It still seems to me like most Canadian cities don't invest in high quality street furniture, finishes, and other visible infrastructure, even for areas that have become considerably more developed (e.g. you can find a row of highrise condos, assessed at hundreds of millions, with basic utility and light poles, suburban style street lighting, signals, and signs, crumbling concrete pavement and curbs, etc.). I think part of this has to do with cities using income from new development to subsidize homeowners. The City of Toronto get huge amounts of cash from the condo towers but they don't result in commensurate improvements to the areas where the towers go in; they are probably used to keep the taxes on $3M homes at $7,000 instead of $10,000 a year.
This.

We grow up next to the world's dominant super power. Lots of Canadians view their country as subordinate, periphery, then assume that 2nd/3rd rate is all Canada can/should aspire to. It's absolute rubbish, of course. Arguing that our capital or other Canadian cities can't have top shelf design because we're the smallest G7 nation or not Paris makes no sense at all. It speaks to a deep rooted inferiority complex. You can bet your bottom dollar that the Dutch don't argue that Amsterdam must except a lower standard than London or DC.

Canada is one of the wealthiest nations on earth; wealthier than the UK I might add. Accepting less has zero to do with money and everything to do with the mindset of Canadians. Like you said, Canadians undersell their country. They shortchange themselves/Canada in the process. Sadly, I suspect that mass immigration will be the only thing to turn that around. Immigrants like myself, don't have the same subordinate mentality prevalent amongst Canadian born.

If the US does something, I don't expect less. My expectation is to match it or do one better. Its a very British/European mindset and one born from Empire. Those empires are long gone but the mindset remains. Canada is famously self-deprecating. It needs to stop.
__________________
ELBOWS UP CANADA, ELBOWS UP UKRAINE, ELBOWS UP GREENLAND
CANADA, EUROPE, NZ, AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, MEXICO STRONG

US REPUBLICANS/MAGA/ICE NOT WELCOME HERE, STAY OUT

Last edited by isaidso; Mar 24, 2021 at 9:52 PM.
     
     
  #16611  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 9:40 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842
That made me want to jump and cheer. Have always thought that but couldn't have put it better myself. The built-in inferiority complex *absolutely* comes from the fact that we were at first subordinate to an imperial power and now in the modern day our media and our economy are both nearly completely dominated by another country, though that was decided through policies of weak governments. Our future does not have to look like our past.

In the conversation about Ottawa and development of the city (cities in general)... it went from not even having a rapid transit system to now having over 20 km, soon to surpass Edmonton, and may even surpass Calgary's system in length by the end of the decade. This is just an example of how quickly that major aspects of urbanity can change in a short time with the right government investments.
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
     
     
  #16612  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 9:45 PM
Monolith's Avatar
Monolith Monolith is offline
Pacific Breeze
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southwestern British Columbia
Posts: 1,233
     
     
  #16613  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 4:18 AM
Repthe250 Repthe250 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Kelowna, BC
Posts: 433
Wow ^
     
     
  #16614  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 7:01 AM
Denscity Denscity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Laramidia
Posts: 12,761
^^^ Hundreds of towers.
__________________
Peak SSP:

28C is hotter than 42C
Vancouver is not on the ocean but Quebec City is.
     
     
  #16615  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 10:44 AM
Martin Mtl's Avatar
Martin Mtl Martin Mtl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,071
Truly impressive.
     
     
  #16616  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 11:45 AM
mcminsen's Avatar
mcminsen mcminsen is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Downtown Vancouver
Posts: 9,950
Here's the other half of wow.




Lions Gate Bridge (2021) by David Laughlin, on Flickr
     
     
  #16617  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 1:40 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
Pass me the Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Otisburgh
Posts: 50,804
it's not even fair. so damned lovely.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. (Bertrand Russell). Sweet Loretta fart thought she was a cleaner, but she was a frying pan. (John Lennon)
     
     
  #16618  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 4:53 PM
Martin Mtl's Avatar
Martin Mtl Martin Mtl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,071
     
     
  #16619  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2021, 5:05 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 35,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
The built-in inferiority complex *absolutely* comes from the fact that we were at first subordinate to an imperial power and now in the modern day our media and our economy are both nearly completely dominated by another country, though that was decided through policies of weak governments. Our future does not have to look like our past.
I tend to reflexively dislike this style of argument but I think this culture does matter in this situation. Reputation or desire don't implement streetscaping or transit lines, but culture can determine what people will tolerate or expect and typically it's the norms that determine what governments do rather than some leader deliberately championing a project.

In Canada there's a mix of tall poppy syndrome and acceptance of mediocrity even in what should be "showcase" areas. In the US or say France the attitude is quite different, and while sometimes they go overboard, I think Canada would be better off with a bit more of that impulse.

I like to follow municipal politics and the reasons for ugly streets in many cases is completely mundane and has little to do with government capacity or demand. The business owners tend to be focused on a shorter timescale and resist disruptive municipal work and residents have disproportionate political power so it's easy to punt on renewal projects.
     
     
  #16620  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2021, 5:55 AM
theman23's Avatar
theman23 theman23 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ville de Québec
Posts: 6,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
You think? My impression of Ottawa is that the Parliament Buildings are wonderful, the Byward Market is kinda okay (but not half what it could be), and some sections of Bank Street are charming, but otherwise Ottawa is a dog's breakfast for architecture and streetside ambience.

Where Toronto's jumble of Victorian brick and apartment blocks often works for how dense and chaotically pleasing it can be, Ottawa gets it wrong. It's all too spaced out, too tentative. There's no heft. Worse, and to be blunt, Ottawa has a lot of small-town Quebec-style commercial and residential streets that are painful to look at.

Start here and work your way west through Ottawa's so-called "Chinatown": https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4112166,-...vPT6NxTVlLvfyoRoXSjIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is just sad.
Never really bothered to visit Ottawa's Chinatown. I guess I assumed it didn't exist given how small the Chinese population is. I honestly don't know what you're expecting, but it seems OK. I'd suggest you head further west next time until you hit Hintonburg, or continue on down Bank street which is actually nice along it's entire length until you hit the rideau canal.

Most of Ottawa's side streets are filled with the same leafy neighborhoods and Victorian era homes that you find in Toronto. You really don't see the Quebec style streets unless you actually enter Quebec. The city is a bit spaced out outside of downtown due to the large amount of parks and the massive amount of space taken up by the experimental farm, so maybe you should bring a bike a long. But honestly, if you live in any of the neighbourhoods along Somerset or Bank Street, you're probably in as walkable a neighbourhood as you can find in this country out of the big three.
__________________
For entertainment purposes only. Not financial advice.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:06 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.