Great Canadian Skyline Thread II

[Larch]

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[905er]

great Hamilton shot! ...if you squint Hamilton's skyline actually looks nicer. Can't wait to see some of the new towers fill in the skyline.. take a little of the focus away from all the ugly 60's/70's condos/apartment buildings.

[Chadillaccc]

Louise Bridge by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Couldn’t agree more with isaidso. My first impression coming into Ottawa was that it felt like a beat up western province town, I was half expecting dirt roads at some point. However, that impression was mainly based on the conditions of the roads, sidewalks and public realm. To be fair that was only based on the ride in, which can be deceiving, and yes, I found it to be a enjoyable, walkable city, with plenty of beautiful older architecture. Too much grit for my liking, but that’s common with older eastern Canadian cities, especially the narrow sidewalks. Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer a more relaxed, friendly pedestrian realm, where you can sit, rest, and re-energize - enjoy some some water features, plants, greenery, and not feel like you need a shower after.

Victoria is fortunate to have existing wider sidewalks and new developments also incorporate that and often add to the public realm. A few examples from downtown for the last summer. In a non-pandemic year of course it would be busier with more people outside enjoying the streets, but you get the idea:

Pandora Street Bike Lane by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

Really beautiful. Granted Victoria has a milder climate but we should never use that as an excuse. We can have a public realm just as nice. Besides, it's not like we don't have a summer.

I might add that I'm not being critical to put Ottawa down. We can do better and we must do better. There's no good reason why all Canadian cities can't build what is depicted above and not just in a city core.

It won't ever improve until people demand better.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Really beautiful. Granted Victoria has a milder climate but we should never use that as an excuse. We can have a public realm just as nice. Besides, it's not like we don't have a summer.

Southern Ontario has a longer and hotter summer than Victoria, with higher lows. The attention to the public realm in BC, at least when it comes to flowers and foliage, has nothing to do with climate, but is a conscious political decision on a municipal level that local residents find acceptable.

How much would it cost to replicate a curb-separated bike lane with nice flowers like that in Toronto? Which councillors are going to bring proposals like that to the table and have them accepted in spite of the associated costs?

Montreal has all kinds of lovely greenery on its sidewalks because people there believe that the public realm matters. Southern Ontario has always been more utilitarian in this regard.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Montreal has all kinds of lovely greenery on its sidewalks because people there believe that the public realm matters. Southern Ontario has always been more utilitarian in this regard.

Yep. It's not a climate thing or an east-west thing. You can find cities that are better or worse for this around the country.

Like you say Ontario stands out for being kind of utilitarian relative to the size and wealth of the cities.

[theman23]

Really bizarre that we’re using a photo of an Ottawa (actually, Gatineau) construction site and carefully selected photos of Washington DC and Victoria to form the basis of a discussion on the merits of each city’s public spaces.

Ottawa is a very pleasant city to walk around in.

[zoomer]

/\ Yes, in my original post I said that as well, and Ottawa is better than most Canadian cities in this regard, but still many road and sidewalks leave something to be desired. When you drive into our national capital’s downtown the experience is underwhelming, a bit disappointing, if somewhat misleading at first. My perception is based on several trips to Ottawa and 37 years in Victoria, so not based on curated photos. If in western Canada Ottawa would have the third best pedestrian/public realm experience, and in some downtown districts/streets an argument could be made that it’s among the best in the country.

[Chadillaccc]

That's all very debatable, especially the impromptu rankings. Having been to every major city in Western Canada extensively (except Winnipeg only once), and having lived in Ottawa... I don't agree at all that it would somehow be third. To each their own though.

[zoomer]

Interesting perspective Chad.. I've been to every major Western Canadian city except Saskatoon. What cities would you rank above Ottawa? Certainly not Edmonton, as much as there is a plenty to like about the city, pedestrian realm is not one. Calgary has invested a lot more in recent years in this regard, but better than Ottawa? The condition of the actual roads - I'll give you that, wider sidewalks as well..

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by theman23

Ottawa is a very pleasant city to walk around in.

You think? My impression of Ottawa is that the Parliament Buildings are wonderful, the Byward Market is kinda okay (but not half what it could be), and some sections of Bank Street are charming, but otherwise Ottawa is a dog's breakfast for architecture and streetside ambience.

Where Toronto's jumble of Victorian brick and apartment blocks often works for how dense and chaotically pleasing it can be, Ottawa gets it wrong. It's all too spaced out, too tentative. There's no heft. Worse, and to be blunt, Ottawa has a lot of small-town Quebec-style commercial and residential streets that are painful to look at.

Start here and work your way west through Ottawa's so-called "Chinatown": https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4112166,-...vPT6NxTVlLvfyoRoXSjIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is just sad.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Interesting perspective Chad.. I've been to every major Western Canadian city except Saskatoon. What cities would you rank above Ottawa? Certainly not Edmonton, as much as there is a plenty to like about the city, pedestrian realm is not one. Calgary has invested a lot more in recent years in this regard, but better than Ottawa? The condition of the actual roads - I'll give you that, wider sidewalks as well..

I'd give Calgary the edge big time, at least in the inner city. Largely due to the billions in public realm investment over the past 5-10 years, but also the high level of redevelopment of the various inner city districts. Both cities have gross dead office cores though. Another reason I'd give Calgary the edge is that even though Ottawa has two inner city university campuses, the vibrancy is still comparable, which is shocking. I suppose a big part of my argument is just how far Calgary has come in a short time along with what Calgary has capitalized on vs. the many strengths Ottawa has failed to capitalize on despite the long standing institutions in place (the student population being the major example).

All of that said, this is largely due to the highly centralized nature of Calgary. So outside of the inner city, Ottawa would take the cake.

[zoomer]

/\ ok, fair enough, and I haven’t been to Calgary in over five years. As you mentioned the office district and the 1970’s era hotels and other large buildings are terrible to walk past, in some cases barren block long parkades facing the street with roaring exhaust fans. And the link Rousseau just posted triggered my memory of why some part of Ottawa remind me of a western province town, not even city. That being said, I’m sure we could pick apart every single Canadian city in some regard, heck even a lot of European cities have crappy, dirty, graffiti destroyed downtown neighbourhoods.

[Coldrsx]

https://twitter.com/kmoorephotos/status/1373974541974654978/photo/3

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by zoomer

/\ ok, fair enough, and I haven’t been to Calgary in over five years. As you mentioned the office district and the 1970’s era hotels and other large buildings are terrible to walk past, in some cases barren block long parkades facing the street with roaring exhaust fans. And the link Rousseau just posted triggered my memory of why some part of Ottawa remind me of a western province town, not even city. That being said, I’m sure we could pick apart every single Canadian city in some regard, heck even a lot of European cities have crappy, dirty, graffiti destroyed downtown neighbourhoods.

That's for sure. Another good part of the debate. I should also say I haven't been to Ottawa in years, but do follow its development and proposals closely.

[vanman]

My pics taken yesterday.

[J.OT13]

From Island Park and Richmond looking east towards Tunney's Pasture and Downtown.

Originally Posted by CapitalCity613

1415 Wellington is starting to go above grade.

[Razor]

The criticism on Ottawa's public realm is fair enough..There is lot of work that the city can do, and it does fall short on many levels for a capital city, however if your only experience is treking past parliament hill and through the neighborhoods in the market, and basing your view just on that, then you sadly and irresponsibly missed the boat on the entire Ottawa picture..First of all, the neigbourhoods near the market are downright sad and run down. Lower town as they call it, is where the Sheppards of good hope, Sally Anne/ food kitchens are. Westborough, Main, the Canal (Queen Elizabeth), Rockcliffe Park and The Glebe would of been better neighbourhoods to check out, and not Rideau and Dalhousie! .I myself avoid the market aside from the summetime patios. Those adjoining "Market" neighbourhoods are not very nice IMO, and I guess if you don't know the city, then I can see how you would form your opinion on the Market's (Lower town) adjoining neighbourhoods. To focus on what Ottawa does real well, is it's inner city green space..The parks and abundance of cycling paths thanks to the NCC. Also the other mentioned neighbourhoods aside from the Market. Bring your bike!

Now as far as the DC/Ottawa comparison..Let's get real here. Their purse strings and $$$ in their federal coffers are 10x if not more then what's available to our country..It's a non starter.We can theoretically make Ottawa grandiose and more of a "Capitol", but you will all lose your shit on the tax money being spent to make that happen.
It certainly won't come out of the City of Ottawa's coffers.It doesn't take a genius to figure out the relativity of a 40m nation to a 300+m nation on how much cash is available to pour into their capital city!.Not even worth comparing to in the first place.

Originally Posted by zoomer

Interesting perspective Chad.. I've been to every major Western Canadian city except Saskatoon. What cities would you rank above Ottawa? Certainly not Edmonton, as much as there is a plenty to like about the city, pedestrian realm is not one. Calgary has invested a lot more in recent years in this regard, but better than Ottawa? The condition of the actual roads - I'll give you that, wider sidewalks as well..

Again, Ottawa has that unfair advantage of having more federal money available to put into the city.(public realm aside).

[Acajack]

I am often critical of Ottawa because I don't find that overall it is nearly as capital-esque as it could or should be.

That said, I would still argue it's still quite a bit above average for cities of its size in Canada-USA, and better than anywhere in Canada going westwards from about Kanata until you get to the Fraser River.

In terms of Calgary, IMO while there may be certain parts of Cowtown that are better than certain parts of Bytown, I think that pound for pound, from a city lover's perspective the best of Ottawa on metrics X, Y and Z is almost always better than the comparable best of Calgary.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am often critical of Ottawa because I don't find that overall it is nearly as capital-esque as it could or should be.

That said, I would still argue it's still quite a bit above average for cities of its size in Canada-USA, and better than anywhere in Canada going westwards from about Kanata until you get to the Fraser River.

In terms of Calgary, IMO while there may be certain parts of Cowtown that are better than certain parts of Bytown, I think that pound for pound, from a city lover's perspective the best of Ottawa on metrics X, Y and Z is almost always better than the comparable best of Calgary.

You mentioned that before, and it seems like a fair assessment if you were to remove the Capital city tag, and just base Ottawa on a being a regular operating city.