Transit Fantasies

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by chowhou

The Sunshine Coast bridge proposal pops up every once in a while. It wouldn't be completely surprising if a rail link came with it.

And a railbus.

[Bdawe]

A rail bridge to the Island is not a new idea. One of the original schemes for the CPR was to run down Bute Inlet and then a series of short hops over the various island to Campbell River, and thence down to connect to the E&N (supposed to be the original terminus) in Victoria. What I think is interesting about this idea would be that going to Port Hardy for a big terminal would make the route rather less circuitous than Victoria or Port Alberni

[giant link]

[Migrant_Coconut]

One small problem: Port Hardy is the 🞵🞵🞵-end of nowhere. At least Port Alberni has growth potential and a labour pool.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

A rail bridge to the Island is not a new idea. One of the original schemes for the CPR was to run down Bute Inlet and then a series of short hops over the various island to Campbell River, and thence down to connect to the E&N (supposed to be the original terminus) in Victoria. What I think is interesting about this idea would be that going to Port Hardy for a big terminal would make the route rather less circuitous than Victoria or Port Alberni

More importantly, in the 19th century the thought of major trade between Canada and Asia Pacific wasn't even an inkling of an idea. More important would have been connections to the rest of the British Empire via Cape Horn or Australia, both southward routes, so the farthest south a trading port could be the better. Nowadays, we want ports as far north as possible to shorten the distance to China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

One small problem: Port Hardy is the 🞵🞵🞵-end of nowhere. At least Port Alberni has growth potential and a labour pool.

So is Prince Rupert, even worse so. Doesn't stop it from being the third busiest port in Canada.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by chowhou

More importantly, in the 19th century the thought of major trade between Canada and Asia Pacific wasn't even an inkling of an idea. More important would have been connections to the rest of the British Empire via Cape Horn or Australia, both southward routes, so the farthest south a trading port could be the better. Nowadays, we want ports as far north as possible to shorten the distance to China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan.



So is Prince Rupert, even worse so. Doesn't stop it from being the third busiest port in Canada.

From shipping lanes, I don't think there is much difference between Port Hardy and Port Alberni. But if you were to cross the Johnstone Straight at it's narrowest part (so the bridge would interfere least with boat traffic) it would be at Quadra Island. A direct rail link through the most convenient pass to each destination would be about 50km shorter to Port Alberni. Port Hardy is a port in name only, there isn't much in the way of available land that would be suitable for a port, even with massive amounts of infill.

I don't think any of this will ever happen, but just to put things in perspective:

If you follow a rough route from Port Alberni through Bute Inlet and through the pass there to Williams Lake, and compare it to the existing CN rail length from North Van to Williams Lake (smoothing it out to make it comparable to the other rough route), the route to Port Alberni is only 50 to 100km longer than travelling to Vancouver from the Yellow Head pass. P-dot is 125km west of Vancouver but at least 200 km closer to shipping lanes. So if time to market were the driving factor of shipping, it might be a better port.

That said, ships are currently much cheaper to operate than trains, so the distance saving on ships is actually more expensive. The only reason to ever do it would be if shipping increases dramatically (not likely, infact might decrease over the next 100 years), if the cost of shipping escalates due to environmental concerns (green energy ships might be very expensive and knocking 300km off a voyage might be worth it), or if Vancouver sells off its waterfront to condo developers.

But it's an interesting thought experiment to see what might have been if the CP had instead used the much easier Yellowhead pass, focused on the more populous Vancouver Island and its logging and coal mines, and built the terminus in Victoria. Instead of building the Railway as south as possible to keep the Americans at bay.

[cganuelas1995]

Rough alignment of an Expo Line Hasting-PNE extension with interregional bus routes to Whistler and Hope.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1HUfb9g7YgoxR0yo6lYqzuznmRsGOYkMf&usp=sharing

[AkariAkaza]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Rough alignment of an Expo Line Hasting-PNE extension with interregional bus routes to Whistler and Hope.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1HUfb9g7YgoxR0yo6lYqzuznmRsGOYkMf&usp=sharing

Looks good. Do you have any ideas on where the new stations would be along the extension?

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by AkariAkaza

Looks good. Do you have any ideas on where the new stations would be along the extension?

I'm thinking Blood Alley and Carrall, Main and Hastings, Clark, Victoria, Nanaimo, Renfrew, and PNE.

[Migrant_Coconut]

This may be of interest to the thread. Steam link here.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

This may be of interest to the thread. Steam link here.

Amazing find! Thank you for sharing !

Gotta love the name lol.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

This may be of interest to the thread. Steam link here.

Thanks for the link. Did the game get renamed at some point before the EA release? As it turned out, I already had it on my Steam wishlist, but I did not recognize the title.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Wouldn't surprise me, indie games rename themselves all the time.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Wouldn't surprise me, indie games rename themselves all the time.

Now I wish I'd been a bit faster, I missed the discount that was valid when you posted originally...

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

This may be of interest to the thread. Steam link here.

Got it and have started mapping (blueprinting) existing lines. Got Expo from Waterfront to Columbia done so far. Wish it was a bit more flexible with branching as OMC1 is only partly doable.

As an aside, the Metro Vancouver area has been added as a custom map to the game Mini Metro. Not much in the way of flexibility (can't branch lines or place stations in certain spots/close proximity, i.e. downtown peninsula) but it's another game that can get you into simulating/building networks.

Update 1: Expo Line is complete including both branches to King George and Production Way–University. Some people have been complaining about the catchment areas in the game being too small but they're nearly perfect for our system. Estimated cost to build right now is about $400 million so I may need to hold off on other lines as I didn't go with unlimited money.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

Got it and have started mapping (blueprinting) existing lines. Got Expo from Waterfront to Columbia done so far. Wish it was a bit more flexible with branching as OMC1 is only partly doable.

I may or may not have got the game as well and have a metro Vancouver map started. Should we race to see who can post their updated fantasy first ?

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

Update 1: Expo Line is complete including both branches to King George and Production Way–University. Some people have been complaining about the catchment areas in the game being too small but they're nearly perfect for our system. Estimated cost to build right now is about $400 million so I may need to hold off on other lines as I didn't go with unlimited money.

I, myself, didn't find the branching too difficult to work with. However I kind of screwed up some of the downtown stations due to the way the game reads off your station sizes. Like it gives you both the blueprint track and station in how many metres total you are blueprinting to build; I find this particularly annoying since sometimes I blueprint track and stations at the same time but oh well . That would be my only gripe since the workaround this is easy - I just need to remember to plan out my stations first.

I went with unlimited money because I am a big cheater . I just have to finish up the WCE line and then I'll have the current metro system built minus the sea bus and long distance rail at Pacific Central.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by sweetnhappy

Got it and have started mapping (blueprinting) existing lines. Got Expo from Waterfront to Columbia done so far. Wish it was a bit more flexible with branching as OMC1 is only partly doable.

As an aside, the Metro Vancouver area has been added as a custom map to the game Mini Metro. Not much in the way of flexibility (can't branch lines or place stations in certain spots/close proximity, i.e. downtown peninsula) but it's another game that can get you into simulating/building networks.

Update 1: Expo Line is complete including both branches to King George and Production Way–University. Some people have been complaining about the catchment areas in the game being too small but they're nearly perfect for our system. Estimated cost to build right now is about $400 million so I may need to hold off on other lines as I didn't go with unlimited money.

Originally Posted by scryer

I may or may not have got the game as well and have a metro Vancouver map started. Should we race to see who can post their updated fantasy first ?





I, myself, didn't find the branching too difficult to work with. However I kind of screwed up some of the downtown stations due to the way the game reads off your station sizes. Like it gives you both the blueprint track and station in how many metres total you are blueprinting to build; I find this particularly annoying since sometimes I blueprint track and stations at the same time but oh well . That would be my only gripe since the workaround this is easy - I just need to remember to plan out my stations first.

I went with unlimited money because I am a big cheater . I just have to finish up the WCE line and then I'll have the current metro system built minus the sea bus and long distance rail at Pacific Central.

So torn... "patient gamer" persona is waiting for another sale, "infrastructure junkie" me wants it now...

[sweetnhappy]

Originally Posted by scryer

I may or may not have got the game as well and have a metro Vancouver map started. Should we race to see who can post their updated fantasy first ?

I'd likely lose a race since I can't dedicate all that much time to it. And my fantasy map (that I previously posted) is definitely in need of some updates and this will make it so much easier to do.

Originally Posted by scryer

I, myself, didn't find the branching too difficult to work with. However I kind of screwed up some of the downtown stations due to the way the game reads off your station sizes. Like it gives you both the blueprint track and station in how many metres total you are blueprinting to build; I find this particularly annoying since sometimes I blueprint track and stations at the same time but oh well . That would be my only gripe since the workaround this is easy - I just need to remember to plan out my stations first.

I too found the blueprinting station lengths to be confusing at first but I've gotten accustomed to it. Though I've been making my stations at least 20 m longer (so 100 m total) since the platform footprints are shorter if they're tunneled or elevated.

Originally Posted by scryer

I went with unlimited money because I am a big cheater . I just have to finish up the WCE line and then I'll have the current metro system built minus the sea bus and long distance rail at Pacific Central.

Heh, that's fine going with unlimited money. I actually want to see how the economics work, even if they're simplistic and not exactly real-world.

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

So torn... "patient gamer" persona is waiting for another sale, "infrastructure junkie" me wants it now...

Yeah, that was me too for a bit. Though I was more concerned with the game's roadmap and mods. Can't wait for single tracks/stations to accurately do the Canada Line and WCE (for now). The game also doesn't have island platform stations yet either... forgot to post about that in the discussions.

[cganuelas1995]

After hearing the news that the WCE is gonna get a $20 million upgrade, I got wondering about running a BEMU train with charging overhead lines at stations, assuming TransLink gets the rail access. Would be a nice trial.

[Bdawe]

My understanding is that at this point battery emus are still very experimental small-set trains?

Though 1-round-trip-a-day commuter trains unlikely to be improved would seem like an ideal use case

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

My understanding is that at this point battery emus are still very experimental small-set trains?

Though 1-round-trip-a-day commuter trains unlikely to be improved would seem like an ideal use case

Yeah but you could probably link the trains together.