Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

I am saying that we need to be more liberal with land use for development to accommodate all the growth. It's like we are doing a half-assed version of neo-liberalism. Economic growth policies but with NIMBY/land protection/anti-development tendencies which is causing inequality.

Agree fully.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For starters, most people whose jobs are lost due to TFWs being hired for lower pay, or some other option that allows the employer to cut their costs, aren't generally given any opportunity to accept a pay cut or renegotiate their terms of employment to save their jobs. It's more often than not something that hits them right out of the blue without warning.

Minimum wage jobs are everywhere. You can always get one.

If you think the pay is too low, you need to advocate for increasing the minimum wage.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Only because immigration drives down wages.

Don't you believe in the Free Market (tm)?

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Only because immigration drives down wages.

Well it's worse because the labour supply increases but housing supply isn't keeping up and thus you end up with wages stagnating but assets like real estate inflating. All the reason why pro-immigration policies need to be dependent on having more pro-development policies.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Minimum wage jobs are everywhere. You can always get one.

If you think the pay is too low, you need to advocate for increasing the minimum wage.

It's rather interesting that when Canadian working stiffs' complaints bump up against the sacred cow of immigration even slightly, the immediate response of progressives is effectively to go tell them to pound sand.

Now tell me again how the western world's left isn't actually in bed with corporate interests?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Well it's worse because the labour supply increases but housing supply isn't keeping up and thus you end up with wages stagnating but assets like real estate inflating. All the reason why pro-immigration policies need to be dependent on having more pro-development policies.

Largely the fault of the Trudeau Liberals who have amped up the demand but have done very little to help cities and provinces deal with the fallout. There needs to be a far more robust federal program to build social housing and to encourage purposed-built market rentals through tax breaks. Exiting social housing is the fault of both the Chretien-Martin Liberals and the Harper Conservatives.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by acajack

it's rather interesting that when canadian working stiffs' complaints bump up against the sacred cow of immigration even slightly, the immediate response of progressives is effectively to go tell them to pound sand.

now tell me again how the western world's left isn't actually in bed with corporate interests?

lol wut?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

lol wut?

Quod erat demonstrandum. Why am I not surprised that you'd be tone-deaf to these concerns?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quod erat demonstrandum. Why am I not surprised that you'd be tone-deaf to these concerns?

Tell me how the left is "in bed with corporate interests" first. Slow it down for me, I'm simple.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Tell me how the left is "in bed with corporate interests" first. Slow it down for me, I'm simple.

I think being rhetorical is a little below you.

What you said makes little sense and reeks of the "liberal urban elite" vibe that conservatives detest, and I think you know it.

Its non sensical to ask Canadians to take reductions in wages to match what TFW's are willing to work for. If Tim Hortons cant pay above minimum wage and operate, let it go bankrupt, don't bail them out with a constant flow of TFW's that are willing to work for below what Canadians are. JJBean has voluntarily paid well above minimum wage and I see new locations opening up - market is rewarding them.

The idea behind governing is supposed to be to execute will of the people; I doubt many people want a reduction in standard of living.
If bringing in TFW's is reducing the standard of living for a measurable amount of Canadians, its perfectly reasonable for those Canadians to ask if those workers should be brought in.

Because you and I happen to immigration should be encouraged, doesn't make it right.

Since you typically speak in favor for left of center policies and platforms, than one would logically assume that you favor the ability of local business to produce increasing profits, over that of average Canadians being able to increase their quality of life.

The next logical step is that the left is "in bed with corporate interests."

I trust we can get past the fact that were talking in insanely broad generalizations for sake of discussion.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

I think being rhetorical is a little below you.

What you said makes little sense and reeks of the "liberal urban elite" vibe that conservatives detest, and I think you know it.

Its non sensical to ask Canadians to take reductions in wages to match what TFW's are willing to work for. If Tim Hortons cant pay above minimum wage and operate, let it go bankrupt. JJBean has voluntarily paid well above minimum wage and I see new locations opening up - market is rewarding them.

The idea behind governing is supposed to be to bring the highest possible quality of life for the citizens of a country, along with a million and one other nuances.

If bringing in TFW's is reducing the standard of living for a measurable amount of Canadians, its perfectly reasonable for those Canadians to ask if those workers should be brought in.

Because you and I happen to immigration should be encouraged, doesn't make it right.

And since you typically speak in favor for left of center policies and platforms than one would logically assume that you favor the ability of local business to produce increasing profits, over that of average Canadians being able to increase their quality of life.

You got it all wrong. I advocated for increasing the minimum wage. The rest of your post is nonsense. We're not talking about TFWs, we're talking about immigration. Permanent new Canadians.

I'm centre, not left.

My advice to take a lower wage is following that posters opinions to their logical conclusion, which doesn't seem very realistic.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You got it all wrong. I advocated for increasing the minimum wage. The rest of your post is nonsense. We're not talking about TFWs, we're talking about immigration. Permanent new Canadians.

I'm centre, not left.

My advice to take a lower wage is following that posters opinions to their logical conclusion, which doesn't seem very realistic.

Minimum wage has nothing to do with it.

Wages will increase if there is a scarcity of labor.

How do you create a scarcity of labor? Stop bringing in more laborers.

Obviously within reason, you don't want to constrain the economies ability to produce.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

Minimum wage has nothing to do with it.

Wages will increase if there is a scarcity of labor.

How do you create a scarcity of labor? Stop bringing in more laborers.

Obviously within reason, you don't want to constrain the economies ability to produce.

We had modern day record unemployment lows heading into COVID. Nobody was bidding up wages.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We had modern day record unemployment lows heading into COVID. Nobody was bidding up wages.

I don't know what industry you work in, but wage inflation pre-covid was insane in a couple sectors in Vancouver. Complete lack of skilled labor had wages jumping $10k a year.

Ask anyone in tech what Amazon coming to town has done to salaries in recent years.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rofina

I don't know what industry you work in, but wage inflation pre-covid was insane in a couple sectors in Vancouver. Complete lack of skilled labor had wages jumping $10k a year.

Ask anyone in tech what Amazon coming to town has done to salaries in recent years.

But we're not talking about skilled labour, we're talking about minimum wage level jobs. Basic retail and customer service.

Yes, there's a huge shortage of skilled labour. Who is supplying a lot of that? Immigrants.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But we're not talking about skilled labour, we're talking about minimum wage level jobs. Basic retail and customer service.

Yes, there's a huge shortage of skilled labour. Who is supplying a lot of that? Immigrants.

If we agree a skilled labor shortage results in increased wages in those sectors.

Why would I not think that a labor shortage for entry level positions would do the same to those positions?

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Tell me how the left is "in bed with corporate interests" first. Slow it down for me, I'm simple.

Neoliberalism.

The biggest issue with wage stagnation at the bottom has to do primarily with TFWs. This country simply does not need more fast food joints and a steady flow of wage slaves to prop up franchise owners.

There will always a subsection of the population that simply does not have the aptitude or ability to learn skilled trades or professional/technical fields. Those people need jobs in the service sector or they are perpetually stuck on welfare and a net drain on society. They don't have to be, but if they are constantly undercut by immigration and TFWs they have no bargaining power to provide for themselves. You can keep the minimum wage as is, lower the working age to 15 and still have a constant demand for people working jobs at gas stations and digging ditches for road work, as long as there is bargaining power for those workers to stay loyal to their employers. In the end of the day you cannot undercut domestic labour and expect good things for society.

Also, this country does not suffer from a labour shortage of skilled industries, our industries are f**king dogshit regarding financial offerings then complain how they cannot find employees. Too many of my peers (early 30s) are overeducated, underpaid, and overworked. It's a complete lie.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Largely the fault of the Trudeau Liberals who have amped up the demand but have done very little to help cities and provinces deal with the fallout. There needs to be a far more robust federal program to build social housing and to encourage purposed-built market rentals through tax breaks. Exiting social housing is the fault of both the Chretien-Martin Liberals and the Harper Conservatives.

The government cannot build housing cheaper than the private sector, you'd never be able to build enough housing this way through taxpayer money.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Don't you believe in the Free Market (tm)?

I do think it's very fair for people to be opposed to immigration if it just means bringing in low skilled labour to the advantage of the wealthy and disadvantage of the less wealthy.

But I think Canada does a pretty good job on this already, especially after kyboshing the TFW scam.

One thing that should be improved though (to the benefit of all), is reducing the burden of provincial certifications for every profession. This presents an unnecessary drag not only on newcomers, but on existing residents.

[urbandreamer]

Why would I accept a wage cut when
1)housing costs/rents have increased
2)food cost up
3)TTC metro pass price went up
4)contractors are building large additions for the rich in city neighbourhoods meanwhile us poor urban folk are supposed to settle for tiny overpriced units?
5)management kept cutting low to middle income staff and threatening to eliminate our benefits meanwhile spending millions renovating their offices and receiving record gov't tax breaks

Three years later I see the results: corp has increased prices for their products beyond inflation, management has increased salaries and splurged on a new hq, stock price has gone nowhere meanwhile many of us former workers are making less today.

I'm not buying your pro-immigration arguments either.