Winnipeg | Transit | Rapid Transit

[Biff]

Looks like the Premier is at it again:

Hands off city money, mayor tells province

By: Joyanne Pursaga Posted: 3:00 AM CST Friday, Feb. 12, 2021

Mayor Brian Bowman is lashing out against a provincial push to divert millions earmarked for Winnipeg Transit into green projects throughout the province, deeming the move "offensive" and urging the senior government to back off the plan.
"For the provincial government to now be attempting to redirect funds intended specifically for Winnipeg, so that they can distribute to ridings outside of Winnipeg is, frankly, offensive. I’m not sure what this provincial government has against public transit, but it’d be great to have their support," said Bowman.

The province has confirmed it wants the city to approve a $204-million transfer of potential federal funding to free up that cash for green projects around the province. The money has been earmarked for Winnipeg Transit as part of the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program (ICIP).

If left in ICIP’s public transit stream, that funding could trigger about $534 million of total transit funding, should all three governments agree to an ICIP deal.
Bowman says that cash is needed to support a Winnipeg Transit master plan, which is expected next month, but the province has confirmed within the past week that it’s still seeking the transfer.

In an emailed statement, a Manitoba Municipal Relations spokesperson said the funds should be transferred to help meet a federal deadline to allocate all ICIP funds by December. Otherwise, the transit funding could lapse before the city can claim it, the statement indicated.

"It is important to note that no submissions for funding under the public transit infrastructure stream of ICIP were submitted to the province by the City of Winnipeg… ICIP submissions of the dollar value contemplated by Mayor Bowman would require both provincial and federal Treasury Board approval, processes which require an appropriate level of review and due diligence," the statement said.

The spokesperson added that the mayor wrote to the province about his concerns on Thursday and "can expect a full, formal response through the proper channels in due course."

[email protected]
Twitter: @joyanne_pursaga

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The City and Province need to get their 🞵🞵🞵🞵 together. Even though the City doesn't have anything planned right now. They need to get sorted ASAP. This is the problem I've had with the City constantly flip flopping and changing their minds. They never have projects ready to go.

The funding is over 8 years. $5.9 bil stimulus right now. Then $3 bil per year starting in 2026 for 3 years. The article mentions the $3 bil is a permanent transit program beyond that.

Seems the $5.9 bil is not just transit. So the City will 🞵🞵🞵🞵 the money dry for the NEWPCC projects.

What's the solution? The City never plans for major shovel-ready transit projects (besides basic essentials like depot maintenance) because transit-hating taxpayers have made it abundantly clear they are only willing to pay for roads. The City literally froze property taxes for a better part of a decade and then when it did increase it, 2% of the entire 2.33% went to pleasing the "fix the damn roads!" crowd.

While other cities like Calgary and Vancouver have regularly increased property taxes at rates of 5% to 8% per year to fund the services their citizens wanted such as rapid transit, Winnipeggers would rather sit back and enjoy low property taxes and congested (but in good condition) roads.

The City isn't going to spend tens of millions of dollars getting class 3 estimate studies completed on "future" rapid transit routes when they are never going to happen within the current constraints of municipal financing. I agree that it is pathetic that this City cannot ever take advantage of federal dollars the same way Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver do because our mindset is so pathetic we can't even plan that far in advance, so when the opportunity comes up, we are caught with our pants down.

But the fact of the matter is that this issue stems from apathetic voters who don't want anything substantial done because we'd rather have low municipal property tax than proper infrastructure. Can't blame the city for not burning cash on developing plans for things that will never happen when those funds are instead needed to prevent the ceilings from caving in at community centres or to keep libraries open.

It's also not the City's fault that the NDP government basically legislated the multi-billion dollar NEWPCC projected into existence thanks to (at the time) new environmental regulations for Lake Winnipeg. The City could literally lose its wastewater license if it doesn't built NEWPCC, and there are also capacity issues meaning that the North End treatment plant is about 10 years of regular population growth away from being at capacity. So naturally the City is going to prioritize this project over all else.

If the City was "run like a business" like most fiscally-conservative taxpayers would ignorantly want, property taxes would double overnight to cover rising future obligations, and utility rates would triple to cover the NEWPCC project. But since municipal government is a democracy and not a business, we're instead left with a massive infrastructure deficit and a future wastewater crisis.

Voters in this city are so blissfully unaware of the real matters plaguing this city, it's ridiculous. Instead they focus on potholes, gravel back lanes, and tiny infill disputes.

[GreyGarden]

I also hope this opportunity motivates them to move on it. But I don't see a lot of support and demand for transit from a wide enough portion of the population to have any faith that the province and city will take advantage of this opportunity. Transit feels like a fringe issue in Winnipeg and Manitoba in a way that it just doesn't in the rest of the country. I rarely hear about people talking about proximity to transit or transit impacting real estate values. It's just not a part of the conversation.

As for the electric bus issue, it frankly just seems like a lazy attempt to appear like they're addressing transit in the city and supporting local jobs.

[Winnipeg Grump]

This platform really needs 'Like' buttons.

I'm getting tired of this. The Feds tell Manitoba - "Here's a few hundred million in funding for you to do X. If you kick in, along with the city, it'll let the city get some of those long-deferred projects off the ground."
And Pallister just says piss-off!

[esquire]

That is disgraceful, but not the least bit surprising.

[Spocket]

But somebody up top called this already! It's right there ^ Yeah...Borkborkbork called it.

Amazing how predictable the levels of government here are. I would wishfully hope they read this forum.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The City and Province need to get their 🞵🞵🞵🞵 together. Even though the City doesn't have anything planned right now. They need to get sorted ASAP. This is the problem I've had with the City constantly flip flopping and changing their minds. They never have projects ready to go.

The funding is over 8 years. $5.9 bil stimulus right now. Then $3 bil per year starting in 2026 for 3 years. The article mentions the $3 bil is a permanent transit program beyond that.

Seems the $5.9 bil is not just transit. So the City will 🞵🞵🞵🞵 the money dry for the NEWPCC projects.

And then when the city does get its 🞵🞵🞵🞵 together with a plan and funding in place they muck it up by throwing a dogleg into the plan to the benefit of no one but a select few, usually friends (with benefits) of the mayor at the time!

[DonaldSmith]

3-line Winnipeg rapid-transit network to cost up to $1.1B over 24 years
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-transit-rapid-transit-plan-1.5940539

[Biff]

Seems doable, especially when most cities commit to building a (singular) RT line in the billion dollar range. With the Fed pool of money available to transit systems, the City should be pushing hard to get a sizable chunk - I'm thinking $500m.

In my opinion, build the biggest impact projects first (which I think they are) like the Queen Elizabeth Way overpass, Union Station hub and the bridge over the Red River connecting the UofM to St Vital Centre.

[esquire]

I can live with the proposed network... no one would ever call it ambitious, but that's Winnipeg for you. It will get the job done even if it's not glamorous.

What I do have a beef with is the proposed build out period... 24 years!!! To put it in perspective, Glen Murray made a serious push for the SW BRT when I was still in university, and I will be retired once the basic 3-route BRT network is complete. Considering that almost everything left to build involves on-street routes as opposed to entirely new ones, how on earth is 5 years per line not sufficient? There is no way that this should take more than 15 years... even that's generous. 24, though?!

[Biff]

Yeah, the time frame is ridiculous. Typical Winnipeg.

I like the idea of it going down the boulevard of Grant Ave. I have troubles envisioning it squeezing onto Nairn and St Marys. I think done right, the Main and Portage routes will work out fine.

[The Jabroni]

The plan in question, for the lazy...

https://winnipegtransit.com/assets/2794/Winnipeg_Transit_Master_Plan-reduced.pdf

[scryer]

24 years and 1.1 billion dollars for a bit of extra roads, minimalist style stations, some extra buses (I'm assuming), and a grade separation or two .

Jeee-sus Christ. The Waterloo region will probably have its second or third LRT line at that point for similar costs.

The design itself is actually perfectly fine. But it's brutal that the BRT vision is being constructed in a timeframe akin to a true metro system.

[optimusREIM]

Classic Winnipeg, shoot low, then tell everyone you're actually aiming for the moon and get it done behind schedule

[pspeid]

Personally the time frame bothers me, but the fact that it is BRT doesn't. What is the purpose of rapid transit? I would think it's to move large numbers of people from one part of the city to another quickly, and help reduce the city's carbon footprint. Do busses (especially electric busses) not do that?

Yes, I'm sure LRTs are faster than busses, but they must have their own unique problems as well. As far as optics go I'm sure they seem "🞵🞵🞵🞵", and some folks consider them to be the sign that we're a grown up city in our big-boy pants. But to get the job of moving people done, I can't see how LRTs are so infinitely superior to busses that they are worth the huge extra expense.

[bomberjet]

LRT isn't necessarily faster. It's just on it's own track. So doesn't have to deal with traffic. At grade LRT has priority at the intersections like other trains.

The RT lines are mostly in diamond lanes until the future when we know nothing will happen. So the only grade separated/dedicated right of way stuff will be the union station thing.

Overall it looks alright. Hopefully they can get the funding lined up for the downtown portion.

The P&M station is on street in front of the Fairmont. Mega station or whatever it was called is pretty generous. Just looks like bus stops.

Still lots of questions on how it will actually look.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by esquire

I can live with the proposed network... no one would ever call it ambitious, but that's Winnipeg for you. It will get the job done even if it's not glamorous.

What I do have a beef with is the proposed build out period... 24 years!!! To put it in perspective, Glen Murray made a serious push for the SW BRT when I was still in university, and I will be retired once the basic 3-route BRT network is complete. Considering that almost everything left to build involves on-street routes as opposed to entirely new ones, how on earth is 5 years per line not sufficient? There is no way that this should take more than 15 years... even that's generous. 24, though?!

I've grown to accept that in most cases in Winnipeg, you need to add at least 15 years onto the timeline for a project when compared to somewhere else.

When they first announced housing is going in at The Forks I started saving for a condo there. That money has since been transferred to my retirement account that wasn't even a concept to me back then... The good news is my retirement fund is looking healthy! I look forward to finally watching those condos go up from my grave.

[bomberjet]

In general I dislike the network to northeast Winnipeg because it requires multiple transfers. Going to U of M for example. Need to transfer at twice in most cases unless you live near the Rose() line. I get the spine and feeder. East Winnipeg get the route to Grant Park. Yippee haha

I suppose I could walk to the N line and transfer to Blue downtown.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

In general I dislike the network to northeast Winnipeg because it requires multiple transfers. Going to U of M for example. Need to transfer at twice in most cases unless you live near the Rose() line. I get the spine and feeder. East Winnipeg get the route to Grant Park. Yippee haha

I suppose I could walk to the N line and transfer to Blue downtown.

I wonder why they called it the Rose line... that seems oddly specific. Why not just Red line?

But that said, coming from NE Winnipeg you could just transfer once at P&M to get to U of M.

[bomberjet]

In good news they are wanting to implement paid fare zones and mobile ticket purchasing. Such as using tap to pay at a ticket kiosk out on the network. Good news. However they need to look at all the issues with that.

It also mentions they will require buses with doors on the left side of the bus for the west corridor.