Phoenix Development News (3) - Page 937

ASU Diablo · #**18721** Posted **Feb 25, 2021, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

It is past approval. Not sure what that's about and I didn't think they were seeking a GPLET.

Found the following agenda item on last month's DVC meeting.

"Astra Project at 2nd Ave & Taylor (GPLET Possible Action) - Xandon Keating, Phoenix Community & Economic Development"

Interesting...I didn't recall them seeking a GPLET either

biggus diggus · #**18722** Posted **Feb 25, 2021, 10:33 PM**

Not the most helpful site but a good place to get started if anyone wants to dig. I do not.

https://www.phoenix.gov/gplet

It looks like derby got one - if I'm reading correctly - which I find interesting.

exit2lef · #**18723** Posted **Feb 25, 2021, 10:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Not the most helpful site but a good place to get started if anyone wants to dig. I do not.

https://www.phoenix.gov/gplet

It looks like derby got one - if I'm reading correctly - which I find interesting.

The Derby got one, but it was found to be illegal:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...x-break-judge-says-goldwater/3238661001/

I'm not sure if there has been an appeal. I've been so happy just to see the Derby going up that I've lost track of all the litigation.

Mr.RE · #**18724** Posted **Feb 25, 2021, 10:59 PM**

My guess is that they got their hard cost construction pricing back from bidding out their plans and the deal didnt pencil any longer and are now pursuing a GPLET to make the deal work. I could be way off here but as someone familiar with these kinds of scenarios, that could be the case.

CrestedSaguaro · #**18725** Posted **Feb 25, 2021, 11:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The Derby got one, but it was found to be illegal:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...x-break-judge-says-goldwater/3238661001/

I'm not sure if there has been an appeal. I've been so happy just to see the Derby going up that I've lost track of all the litigation.

I'm not too sure how litigation exactly works. In my view, Derby originally went for the 25 year GPLET which went to court, lost and the 25 year GPLET was determined to be illegal. However, I believe the 25 year GPLET got whittled down to an 8 year GPLET and Derby could have still qualified for that, correct?

I don't recall Derby re-requesting the 8 year GPLET. Could that have been approved behind closed doors since it was initially approved for the 25 year GPLET or would that have had to went before City Council again?

biggus diggus · #**18726** Posted **Feb 25, 2021, 11:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

My guess is that they got their hard cost construction pricing back from bidding out their plans and the deal didnt pencil any longer and are now pursuing a GPLET to make the deal work. I could be way off here but as someone familiar with these kinds of scenarios, that could be the case.

Quite a few general contractors I work with have been telling me lots of things. Covid is causing a labor shortage. The pace at which new homes, apartments, and retail is being built is causing competitiveness in the labor pool also. My electrician has been paying 150% across the board for his materials.

I know it's just a theory but I think you may be on to something.

muertecaza · #**18727** Posted **Feb 26, 2021, 12:17 AM**

AZ Supreme Court recently issued a decision with a pretty strict interpretation of the "Gift Clause" (the provision under which the Derby GPLET was found illegal):

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?...q=%22peoria%22&hl=en&scisbd=2&as_sdt=4,3

That case was not a GPLET case per se, but it requires a pretty stringent analysis about whether a municipality is getting "sufficient consideration" for tax breaks. Basically cities have to show that their giveaway is not "grossly disproportionate" to the returned benefits. The AZ Supreme Court case was frankly much more egregious than most GPLET cases--Peoria basically gave millions in benefits and tax breaks to a private college with the only expected return being vague "economic impact" from the college. But I do think we can expect more strict enforcement of the Gift Clause moving forward. There was an interesting podcast on the Strong Towns-related podcast "Upzoned" recently about it that's a good listen: https://www.strongtowns.org/podcast.

As for the Derby GPLET case, it was not appealed (http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2017-001742). I don't know, but I have to wonder whether that was a strategic decision on the City's part to avoid a potentially adverse and precedential Court of Appeals decision affirming the trial court's ruling.

Quote:

I'm not too sure how litigation exactly works. In my view, Derby originally went for the 25 year GPLET which went to court, lost and the 25 year GPLET was determined to be illegal. However, I believe the 25 year GPLET got whittled down to an 8 year GPLET and Derby could have still qualified for that, correct?

Yes, the Derby GPLET that was ruled illegal was a 25-year one. Per biggus's link, I'm seeing that Derby has a "development agreement," but isn't subject to an excise tax. I frankly am not sure what the difference is, or what exactly benefits they're getting if any.

plinko · #**18728** Posted **Feb 26, 2021, 7:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Quite a few general contractors I work with have been telling me lots of things. Covid is causing a labor shortage. The pace at which new homes, apartments, and retail is being built is causing competitiveness in the labor pool also. My electrician has been paying 150% across the board for his materials.

I know it's just a theory but I think you may be on to something.

Materials costs are through the roof right now, particularly for basic components like wood or anything that has to be imported.

MMDelon · #**18729** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 2:45 AM**

It has been nice to see all the new developments in downtown Phoenix but none of them really wow me. It also feels like the developments are slowing down too. Also, I am concerned about hotels not coming to fruition like the Atari hotel, Meow Wolf, and the hotel portion of the Central Station project. Even Edith hasn't broken and the RFP for the regency development seems to be up in the air. I know most of it is probably due to covid 19 but there are still projects around the valley and midtown section of the city breaking ground. Even the Toll Brothers are breaking ground on their project. All this feels weird to me.

CrestedSaguaro · #**18730** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMDelon

It has been nice to see all the new developments in downtown Phoenix but none of them really wow me. It also feels like the developments are slowing down too. Also, I am concerned about hotels not coming to fruition like the Atari hotel, Meow Wolf, and the hotel portion of the Central Station project. Even Edith hasn't broken and the RFP for the regency development seems to be up in the air. I know most of it is probably due to covid 19 but there are still projects around the valley and midtown section of the city breaking ground. Even the Toll Brothers are breaking ground on their project. All this feels weird to me.

There is still movement even if slow. I expect a slew of ground-breakings in the next few months. Garfield is probably imminent, a 15" water main permit was submitted for McKinley Green just a few days ago and today, a plant salvage permit was submitted for Palm Tower (neither of these are issued yet). Small steps, but some indication they are still coming along.

Edith I still have hope for and I think Medistar dropping the hotel from Central Station was just a bungle for them. Not sure why you wouldn't want hotel on top of a primary mass transit center with many large events coming down the pipeline for Phoenix.

Oh! Before I forget, here's something that may be positive. I saw 2 guys walking around Punch Bowl Social yesterday and I swore one of them had a PSB logo on his shirt. When I walked by today, the graffiti on the front entrance had been removed. There were also 2 vehicles parked in the back of PSB. I'm hopeful this could be a sign. Fingers crossed!

azsunsurfer · #**18731** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:07 PM**

Interesting spot....but ok

https://azbex.com/14-story-multifamily-tower-proposed-for-phoenix-kierland-area/

xymox · #**18732** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Interesting spot....but ok

https://azbex.com/14-story-multifamily-tower-proposed-for-phoenix-kierland-area/

I’d imagine the whole Scottsdale Rd corridor from Kierland -> L101 will evolve into something with a lot more of these buildings over the next 10 years. Seems like we’ve had a lot more proposals like this - including the 3 ‘towers’ for the Crackerjack site not far from there.

Mr.RE · #**18733** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymox

I’d imagine the whole Scottsdale Rd corridor from Kierland -> L101 will evolve into something with a lot more of these buildings over the next 10 years. Seems like we’ve had a lot more proposals like this - including the 3 ‘towers’ for the Crackerjack site not far from there.

What 3 towers are you referring to? An older proposal or something recent?

ASUSunDevil · #**18734** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.RE

What 3 towers are you referring to? An older proposal or something recent?

https://azbex.com/crackerjax-to-become-2msf-mixed-use/

azsunsurfer · #**18735** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 4:56 PM**

What I don't get was...wasn't on the Phoenix side near the Optima block a proposal for one or two 14 story towers that was ultimately struck down? I believe Optima's new towers are 10/12 stories? It didn't seem that long ago that that area was anti-height.

CrestedSaguaro · #**18736** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

What I don't get was...wasn't on the Phoenix side near the Optima block a proposal for one or two 14 story towers that was ultimately struck down? I believe Optima's new towers are 10/12 stories? It didn't seem that long ago that that area was anti-height.

I think it was just a single tower. I believe the bigger issue was the way they wanted to flow traffic through an entrance that would have moved traffic through an adjacent lot more than a height issue. But the height was brought up too just for added argument.

combusean · #**18737** Posted **Mar 3, 2021, 6:28 PM**

My reading of what happened there is the hotel proposal was struck down for yet another residential tower. There are like 5 towers of that site that are nearly all the same height and programming like a Le Corbusier 🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. The final tower gobbles up the corner triangular lot, ties into the parking garage and is a little shorter than the rest.

I posted this in the Scottsdale thread and this doesn't even include a large apartment complex and major office redevelopment on the south. Kierland is crazy hot and dense.

I find it odd that with some of the most intensive development planned in the Valley Kierland is neither a village core and in fact has enough of it designated as industrial on the general plan map. I could see 140' in a village core but it'd be out of place by PV mall and totally market-respondent in the Kierland area.

In reading through some of the rezoning cases, it doesn't seem that Phoenix really cares about NIMBY concerns in stark contrast with some of the more established older centrally located areas. I kind of wonder why they go through the dog-and-pony show of planning if they've missed or otherwise ignored this over the last several years.

CrestedSaguaro · #**18738** Posted **Mar 4, 2021, 4:21 PM**

Staging lot and construction trailer getting setup for Skye on 6th (Garfield). Just got confirmation from crew that Garfield breaks ground on Monday!!

xymox · #**18739** Posted **Mar 4, 2021, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

https://azbex.com/crackerjax-to-become-2msf-mixed-use/

Yes this - initial heights for the land had approved up to 150ft for 3 ‘towers’ on that site. Recent - eh - 2017 feels recent, but man, almost 4 years now...

No idea if this project has died or is just moving slowly due to COVID.

combusean · #**18740** Posted **Mar 4, 2021, 5:05 PM**

A for-profit arm of the Herberger Foundation owns that lot now instead of JDM, so it's probably safe to say the 3-tower project is dead.