Downtown Eastside - DTES Issues

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by spacebjorn

.There is really no good job opportunities to offer to the people on the streets. And as most have already pointed out, the allure of getting a free, endless supply of drugs + zero consequences of being a crime offender overrides any incentives for them to get 'clean'. The affordability issue also applies here like you mentioned as many aren't even using drugs but I'd argue if we're specially talking about the DTES, the drug problem is the priority — an eye test should already confirm that if you've been in & out of the area.

They are committing crimes to get drugs. Do you think that they’re going to waste their time committing crimes if they have a free supply? All of that unnecessary stress and risk that they only bother doing because they are desperate and addicted?

They’re already living in pure misery most of the time and that isn’t enough motivation. So how is punishment the cure?

The only practical solution I see at this point is a free, safe supply coupled with readily available treatment that addresses underlying trauma.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Greyhound still ran to Vancouver up to two years after the article; after that, it's almost as easy to buy train tickets.

If you want numbers, our own homeless count from 2019 shows that 75% of our homeless come from outside Vancouver, and that 44% come from outside BC. I've personally known a student from Alberta (as of that same year) living in a shelter.

What is also interesting in the table 15 in the report that said that 82% had a home in Vancouver before they became homeless. While 18% were homeless before coming to Vancouver.

It does not sound like this is a problem of the rest of the country dumping people here. I think we have our own home grown problems.

It is an interesting report. The aboriginal population is unfortunately over represented. Vancouver Native Housing Society and the likes have a role to play in helping to address this problem.

Also interesting was that 10% had military background. There are these stories out of the US about the long-term impact of combat on someone post service and being a cause of stress. I don't know if 10% is more or less of what you find in the general population. Either way it looks like 100 bed facility could easily handle that community.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by casper

What is also interesting in the table 15 in the report that said that 82% had a home in Vancouver before they became homeless. While 18% were homeless before coming to Vancouver.

It does not sound like this is a problem of the rest of the country dumping people here. I think we have our own home grown problems.

Not saying we didn't/don't have our own problems, only that other parts of Canada are dogpiling on them. By contrast to our 56%, 65% of Calgary and 76% of Saskatoon homeless are from inside the province.

More to the point, 18% of 3,634 is 654, and the total unsheltered population is 1,029; at the risk of sounding nativist, 3/5ths less people on the streets would've made things a whole lot easier for us.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Changing City

We don't. Numbers here.

And this is from the homeless count of 2019. A recent government study.



Page 22 and I even highlighted it for you. And the link you posted was from 2018.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by scryer

And the link you posted was from 2018.

That's the last time there was a survey across Canada. There might be another this year - it's every 3 years, but Covid may affect the ability to do a survey this year. You said 'Vancouver upholds a disproportionate amount of homeless Canadians'. We don't. Other cities have a higher proportion of their population who are homeless. Greater Vancouver has almost exactly 6% of Canada's population, and the same proportion of Canada's homeless. Calgary, for example has more homeless and a small population. You can legitimately argue that the City of Vancouver has a greater proportion of Metro Vancouver's homeless, but it would be surprising if that wasn't true.

You're quoting the City of Vancouver annual report - not Greater Vancouver. The highlighted statistic just tells you that 44% of people who were homeless in 2019 in the City of Vancouver came here from somewhere else. It doesn't tell you when; it could have been 40 years ago. It doesn't say they were living somewhere else in Canada before they became homeless here.

As has already been pointed out, 82% of respondents who answered said they had a home in Vancouver before they were homeless. 18% said somewhere else - it's not clear if they answered Surrey, or Burnaby, whether that's included as 'somewhere else', but as this a City survey - not a Greater Vancouver survey that's very possible.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Changing City

As has already been pointed out, 82% of respondents who answered said they had a home in Vancouver before they were homeless. 18% said somewhere else - it's not clear if they answered Surrey, or Burnaby, whether that's included as 'somewhere else', but as this a City survey - not a Greater Vancouver survey that's very possible.

I'd suspect that's very likely the case. It's only recently that Burnaby has had a shelter, so any homeless people here had to travel to Vancouver when they needed to sleep indoors. I've heard people camp in the Byrne Creek greenbelt just like they do in Stanley Park but they can't do that all year.

[mcminsen]

I’m kind of used to the street chaos and disorder in downtown Vancouver and have usually managed to navigate around it and get on with my day but I’ve had two nasty experiences just in the last week that have taken it to another level.

I was just violently assaulted about a couple of hours ago on Davie near Burrard. Out of the blue some deranged guy lunged at me and threw a box or something at me. It bounced off the left side of my head so hard it knocked the hearing aid out of my ear and I almost fell over. It was shocking to be randomly attacked like that in broad daylight on a busy sidewalk.

The people nearby just kind of moved away as the guy and I had a standoff. He seemed to be ready for a fight but I wasn't backing down or running away so he eventually started running away.

I got my camera out to get some pics of him and we brought traffic to a brief standstill while I got my pics.

I went up Davie a ways where there were some police directing traffic and I reported the assault to them. They took notes and looked at my pictures and gave me a case file and told me another constable would call me to to make a report.

The guy was obviously strung out and out of his mind. He had a hospital sheet over his shoulder and was having trouble keeping his pants up and his shoes on. I wasn’t hurt but he could have done that to anybody. A young woman, a mom with a kid, a frail old person.

And then about a week ago I was accosted by another deranged guy while on my way to Stadium Chinatown station. He just came at me ranting and raving while I was crossing the QE Theatre plaza. Again in broad daylight with people all around. He stalked me for blocks screaming and occasionally blocking my path and not letting me by. I stepped out into Dunsmuir a couple of times to get away from him and he would just go right into the middle of the street and bring traffic to a stop while I figured out a way to get past him. He didn’t back off until I went through the gates into the station.

I can shrug it off and just say well, just another day in the neighbourhood but I feel sorry for others who wouldn't be able to defend themselves. I bet there are lot of incidents that don't get reported. I don't expect much to happen but at least the incidents should be reported.






Davie and Burrard, Feb.21 ’21, my pics
...

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[officedweller]

Sorry hear about the assault incidents.
I walk back from the office late at night and try to avoid anyone I see on the sidewalks.

[mcminsen]

I just realized now that I had a third incident back on Thursday.

I was trying to enter the liquor store at Cambie and 8th. They have separate in and out doors with a vestibule between the inside and outside doors. Just as I was going through the second door there was a young man that was in the way and trying to make an exit the wrong way out the entrance.

I thought okay, I've seen this before and I think I know what's going on. So, I didn't move out of the way and just stood there and blocked him from going out. At the same time a woman behind him was starting to yell "Security! Security! This guy's trying to steal a bottle of vodka!" At that point the guy started to panic and he just shoved forward as hard as he could and pushed me aside and made his getaway. I walked in and said to the lady "That's what they do here.". She was upset but I just shrugged and carried on.

I'm only out and about in the afternoons but I'm so inured to this kind of stuff I forget about it.

I know this thread is about Downtown East Side issues but it seems like these issues are more common than ever outside of the DTES.

[Galaxy]

Sorry to hear that happen to you Mcminsen. I work kiddy corner to Victory Square and unfortunate incidents like this happen regularly. I regularly see VPD officers around in large groups racing after the next incident. The number of times I have not seen something happen are few and far between. I too often try my best to make my way as fast as I can to get to where I need to go for my own safety. It's unfortunate the state that the city has turned into and the changes that are happening.

[spacebjorn]

Wow good for you to show your restraint on the assault. This is the type of stuff that makes my blood boil especially knowing nothing will be enforced from the police.

Sympathy goes out of the window for me real quick if they start harming me or people I care about.

[casper]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

I just realized now that I had a third incident back on Thursday.

I was trying to enter the liquor store at Cambie and 8th. They have separate in and out doors with a vestibule between the inside and outside doors. Just as I was going through the second door there was a young man that was in the way and trying to make an exit the wrong way out the entrance.

I thought okay, I've seen this before and I think I know what's going on. So, I didn't move out of the way and just stood there and blocked him from going out. At the same time a woman behind him was starting to yell "Security! Security! This guy's trying to steal a bottle of vodka!" At that point the guy started to panic and he just shoved forward as hard as he could and pushed me aside and made his getaway. I walked in and said to the lady "That's what they do here.". She was upset but I just shrugged and carried on.

I'm only out and about in the afternoons but I'm so inured to this kind of stuff I forget about it.

I know this thread is about Downtown East Side issues but it seems like these issues are more common than ever outside of the DTES.

This is the kind of stuff that needs to be contained before we start to see people move out of the downtown core.

The person with the blanket obviously needs help.

If he was in a hospital and discharged, they made a mistake. He is a danger to himself and others.

If was not, then the police need to go arrest him and he needs to be given a choice of going down a medical stream or a jail stream. Hopefully he choses the medical stream.

Releasing people who have a high likely hood of repeating the same offense is not a solution. Getting them into a treatment program is.

[Metro-One]

Wow! I can’t tell you how depressing it is hearing people say that they are avoiding contact with others and getting from work to home etc... as fast as possible to avoid confrontations downtown. Seriously, this shit need to be stopped and reversed now.

This reputation is also starting to spread worldwide, last year at a bar the guy next to me was from Israel, as soon as I mentioned I was from Vancouver the first thing he said was, “needles!”

Also many Japanese I know are starting to associate Vancouver with homeless people. In fact the downtown east side even made it on a special TV piece a couple years ago. It was funny listening to all the commentators says how it looks like disaster / war zone.

Oh well, that is the image Vancouverites have chosen through their elected officials.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Speaking of elected officials, I find it somewhat interesting that everybody seems to be blaming Kennedy Stewart's council (who inherited the problem) rather than Gregor Robertson's (who caused it).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Speaking of elected officials, I find it somewhat interesting that everybody seems to be blaming Kennedy Stewart's council (who inherited the problem) rather than Gregor Robertson's (who caused it).

They can both be blamed. I'm not sure Robertson "caused" it.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

They can both be blamed. I'm not sure Robertson "caused" it.

Robertson and his council certainly made things dramatically worse when, at the behest of the so-called poverty advocates, they reversed the positive direction the DTES was heading in just prior to the Winter Olympics by amending the area’s existing official plan to stop any of the revitalizations that were sweeping the 100 West Hastings block from spreading any further east. He and his council then killed off any remaining hope for the area when, again at the behest of the so-called poverty advocates, they tore up their own new Chinatown plan precisely at the moment it was having an ameliorative effect.

It’s a historical fact that Robertson and his council threw the DTES, Chinatown and by extension the city under the bus to placate the vociferous cries of the so-called poverty advocates and are directly responsible for the area’s (and now the city’s) reversal of fortune and thus played an important causal role in Vancouver’s current miserable state.

[GenWhy?]

I wasn't here during the time, but I thought the Olympics helped spur the increased lack of affordability and number of SROs that rented for a decent rate in the area?

Would "revitalizing" the DTES / Chinatown area not simply increase a lack of affordability?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I wasn't here during the time, but I thought the Olympics helped spur the increased lack of affordability and number of SROs that rented for a decent rate in the area?

Would "revitalizing" the DTES / Chinatown area not simply increase a lack of affordability?

Exactly. Gentrification in itself does nothing to solve the problems identified by commenters here as affecting the DTES, and increasingly throughout the city. If anything, it makes them worse (through increasing rents and homelessness) and spreads the problems over a wider area.

The inadequacy of mental health support systems are almost entirely outside municipal control. It was Christy Clark's liberal government in power when Riverview was closed in 2012. It was the same government who, in December 2015, announced plans to replace the obsolete buildings with new mental health facilities scheduled to open in about 2019. They delayed funded that 'plan'. There's a new Riverview facility will house 105 patients and provide specialized care for adults with severe and complex mental health and addiction challenges - that should open later this year, but in the meantime we've had nine years without any facility there.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I wasn't here during the time, but I thought the Olympics helped spur the increased lack of affordability and number of SROs that rented for a decent rate in the area?

Would "revitalizing" the DTES / Chinatown area not simply increase a lack of affordability?

There are provisions within the dtes plan that call for a certain amount of social housing, even more so within the East Hastings district. If the dtes plan ever came to fruition, there would be more social housing than there was before the plan. It’s extremely unfortunate that the City put a halt to Chinatown development, because things were improving, and Chinatown development would likely spur development along East Hastings/Oppenheimer.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

There are provisions within the dtes plan that call for a certain amount of social housing, even more so within the East Hastings district. If the dtes plan ever came to fruition, there would be more social housing than there was before the plan. It’s extremely unfortunate that the City put a halt to Chinatown development, because things were improving, and Chinatown development would likely spur development along East Hastings/Oppenheimer.

'Sparrow' is under construction right now in Chinatown. The new The Chinatown Plan was paused, and the mix of uses was changed slightly, but apparently not so that all development has stopped. Condos are still allowed too - it's not all social housing. In fact no extra social housing is required - only replacement of any existing on site. 728 Main was just approved as a rezoning, also in the area currently in the Chinatown Plan.