The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Acajack]

José Théodore, the Montreal-born son of a father of Greek Macedonian origin and a mother of Spanish origin, was on an American radio show recently where he said that coach Bruce Boudreau often yelled "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 frogs" at francophone referees when he played under him.

https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/1360620399713804289

Not much coverage in the Anglo-Canadian media so far.

[Hali87]

That's awful, and I hope it doesn't still happen.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

José Théodore, the Montreal-born son of a father of Greek Macedonian origin and a mother of Spanish origin, was on an American radio show recently where he said that coach Bruce Boudreau often yelled "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 frogs" at francophone referees when he played under him.

https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/1360620399713804289

Not much coverage in the Anglo-Canadian media so far.

I had a friend from Que. who collected ornamental frogs and took apparent pride in that. Of course it comes from the vocal affectations used in the French language and music (also not unique to French), but I wonder how offensive the F word actually is, probably something akin to Newfie, much dependent upon context.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Architype

I had a friend from Que. who collected ornamental frogs and took apparent pride in that. Of course it comes from the vocal affectations used in the French language and music (also not unique to French), but I wonder how offensive the F word actually is, probably something akin to Newfie, much dependent upon context.

In the clip, Theodore goes on to say that he uses the F-word with respect to himself all the time. For what it's worth, he also doesn't seem to have personally heard Boudreau use the word, since he wasn't on the bench, being a goalie.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Andy6

In the clip, Theodore goes on to say that he uses the F-word with respect to himself all the time. For what it's worth, he also doesn't seem to have personally heard Boudreau use the word, since he wasn't on the bench, being a goalie.

It's actually almost a meme among francophones that "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 frog" is (or at least was until fairly recently) the only acceptable slur on the ice in the NHL.

We didn't need to hear José Théodore interviewed by a dude in St. Louis to know this.

On various threads there are several NHLers who've reacted with a "yup" and I even saw some CFLers say "it's not just a thing in the NHL, y'know".

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

I had a friend from Que. who collected ornamental frogs and took apparent pride in that. Of course it comes from the vocal affectations used in the French language and music (also not unique to French), but I wonder how offensive the F word actually is, probably something akin to Newfie, much dependent upon context.

Isn't the context dependence true for any slur ever?

For example the "N word" which can either (1) become a newsworthy item if a TV celebrity quotes it privately to other coworkers or (2) appear in "New Music Friday" on Spotify.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

Of course it comes from the vocal affectations used in the French language and music (also not unique to French),.

Where exactly does this come from? "Frog" is actually something the British started calling the French centuries ago, because the French ate frog's legs (and the Brits didn't) and the commonality of the first two letters of both words (Frog and French).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

I had a friend from Que. who collected ornamental frogs and took apparent pride in that. Of course it comes from the vocal affectations used in the French language and music (also not unique to French), but I wonder how offensive the F word actually is, probably something akin to Newfie, much dependent upon context.

I'd say it lies somewhere between the N word native to Newfoundland and Labrador and the N word native to the United States.

If a mainlander were to call a Newfoundlander "Newfie" in a good-natured way there's probably around a 50-50 chance they'd laugh it off.

But if an anglophone called a Canadian francophone "frog", even jokingly, the chances of getting it (sincerely) laughed off are more in the 10% range.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Isn't the context dependence true for any slur ever?

For example the "N word" which can either (1) become a newsworthy item if a TV celebrity quotes it privately to other coworkers or (2) appear in "New Music Friday" on Spotify.

Exactly.

At a historical moment where using the N word even contextually or referentially with extreme caution is equivalent to a nuclear bomb, I think we can safely say that the gravity and appropriate use (if any) of any slur can only be determined by the people it refers to.

Everyone else should be avoiding its use and not even discuss any of the issues above.

BTW I didn't make or even desire this world we're living in.

But it's still real.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Where exactly does this come from? "Frog" is actually something the British started calling the French centuries ago, because the French ate frog's legs (and the Brits didn't) and the commonality of the first two letters of both words (Frog and French).

Interesting, I may have even read that somewhere and forgotten. Sometimes things have seemingly multiple origins. Anyway, none of these words are anything I would use in a casual manner.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Acajack

...where he said that coach Bruce Boudreau often yelled "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 frogs" at francophone referees...

There's a certain... irony there. Though to be clear I don't think the fact that he has a French surname makes it ok for him to yell such slurs at people, on or off the ice. Generally I think people should just refrain from yelling slurs at each other.

I've never really witnessed blatant anti-Francophone sentiment firsthand and it's something I'll try to be more aware of. I don't think that it's more ok than discrimination against (whatever other group) and I hope that I've never given that impression.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

There's a certain... irony there. Though to be clear I don't think the fact that he has a French surname makes it ok for him to yell such slurs at people, on or off the ice.

In my experience Canadians who are of francophone origin but who have lost their French are often the most francophobic ones out there.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In my experience Canadians who are of francophone origin but who have lost their French are often the most francophobic ones out there.

I have also noticed this.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In my experience Canadians who are of francophone origin but who have lost their French are often the most francophobic ones out there.

Same as homophobes conservatives that 🞵🞵🞵🞵 guys on the side, inner self-hate.

[lio45]

Anyone here has heard this story?

https://montrealgazette.com/news/man-charged-with-injuring-and-disarming-montreal-police-officer

Looks fine at first sight, except that the guy actually did not do any of that, yet the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 cops who decided they wanted to arrest him didn't care about that. He got brutally arrested then spent a week in jail, then "oops, in the end we're forced to admit it was totally the wrong guy, apologies!"

I'm surprised that Montreal cops are like that, in my (limited) experience they're a fair bit less idiotic than that. That story though would have been totally standard for Sherbrooke cops. (Not even exaggerating!)

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by lio45

Anyone here has heard this story?

https://montrealgazette.com/news/man-charged-with-injuring-and-disarming-montreal-police-officer

Looks fine at first sight, except that the guy actually did not do any of that, yet the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 cops who decided they wanted to arrest him didn't care about that. He got brutally arrested then spent a week in jail, then "oops, in the end we're forced to admit it was totally the wrong guy, apologies!"

I'm surprised that Montreal cops are like that, in my (limited) experience they're a fair bit less idiotic than that. That story though would have been totally standard for Sherbrooke cops. (Not even exaggerating!)

What's the racism connection? Going by my superficial judgement of the names, there's no white person involved so it can't be racist.

[lio45]

By my own standards there's no racism connection (just 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 cops being utter pieces of 🞵🞵🞵🞵, as is unfortunately too common in my home province), but it kinda felt like the right thread for it, since it's the case of a perfectly innocent black man who was treated like 🞵🞵🞵🞵 by cops who then turned out to be totally in the wrong.

Honestly though, had there been an existing "The Great Canadian 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 Cops Discussion Thread" that's where I would have put this. The potential racism connection is secondary, I agree.

[lio45]

Also, since in this case I'm 100.00000% sympathetic to the guy, actually should he need any funding I'd gladly help him sue the hell out of these 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵 Mtl cops, I figure, it would be nice to have my annoying little trolling shadow dleung witness that I'm firmly on the side of the black guy for once

(I'm totally colorblind, so it's bound to happen from time to time by virtue of basic statistical probabilities, but he refuses to admit that for some strange reason.)

[theman23]

We discussed it in the murder thread, both before and after it came out that the guy was innocent.

[Acajack]

It's clearly a case of gross police misconduct.

Whether or not it's racial profiling or even simple racism I guess will be a question for the inquiries that will follow.

Of course the usual suspects (pardon the pun!) have already made up their minds that it is, or that it isn't.