[Surrey] Avani Centre (Including Hampton by Hilton) | 107m | 30 fl | Proposed

[Ailurus]

Originally Posted by Blease

Maybe I’m an optimist, but I still think the developer is going to pull this off.

Somehow I'm becoming less optimistic due to something which just occurred to me...

In Gummo's post #331 (March 4 2020), the developer statement talks about having permits in place to start construction. That aligns with what I know about the project - that it got its excavation permit in about Feb 2020.

BUT if they don't begin construction within one year (i.e. end of this month), the permit may expire due to inactivity, and the entire City approval process starts again from scratch. I know some municipalities have six month expiry periods for permits. Not sure what Surrey's protocol is.

Alternatively, maybe the latest delay is because the permit did in fact expire after six months of inactivity, and they needed to frantically get their ducks back in a row...but that still wouldn't explain why the sales centre hasn't been demolished yet...

[mooman80]

owners officially got the project cancellation notice today. Cites the slowing hotel market has caused the cancellation

We are being offered our deposits back once we sign a release

Any more experienced members have any thoughts? Feels like such a waste to park money here for 2.5 years

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by mooman80

owners officially got the project cancellation notice today. Cites the slowing hotel market has caused the cancellation

We are being offered our deposits back once we sign a release

Any more experienced members have any thoughts? Feels like such a waste to park money here for 2.5 years

Thank you for the update. It is confirmation that this project is now dead. I believe the cancellation was really due to developer inexperience and the lack of sales based on unusually high pricing points that were released with the units. Hopefully the owners at least get interest on their deposits.

[Flynn86]

I wonder if they will sell the land and project to another developer with deeper pockets to get it going again.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by mooman80

owners officially got the project cancellation notice today. Cites the slowing hotel market has caused the cancellation

We are being offered our deposits back once we sign a release

Any more experienced members have any thoughts? Feels like such a waste to park money here for 2.5 years

Yup that's the risk people take with a pre-build. It locks the money. The risk is you lose access to it for 2.5 years in your case, the reward is you could have possibly had a unit that you end up paying less than market value when it is complete.

Just the way it goes it's a bit of a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Avani is a bit of an anomaly though. Most of these types of projects do get built... eventually. There were quite a few red flags though.

I'm no expert but in the future I'd first take a good look at the developer's track record, is it their first time building something of this sort? Have they delivered other projects of similar magnitude?

Then look at the project itself and see if it is heavily hinged on a big unknown. In this case it was a hotel. That increases the risk because if they can't secure that tenant, it puts the financial business case at risk no matter if the residential units all sold. It would be the same with a development with a really heavy commercial component.

And at the end of the day you weigh the risks vs rewards and make your decision. Reality is this was also double whammied in that it would have been nearly impossible to predict COVID-19 and hitting at the time it did. I think most sane people knew we were due for a pandemic, but the timing of COVID for this specific project was just terrible.

Edit: Sorry forgot to say that I wouldn't see it as a waste but as a learning experience. I'm sorry if you were looking to have your unit as a primary residence, but I'm sure you'll be better off with the experience. When you get your money back, you'll be wiser in the next investment.

[Gummozebra]

Can somebody share the cancellation notice?

Applauding the developer of at least doing the right thing and refunding the deposit, although most likely without interest. This is a much better scenario vs the building breaking ground but having problems left and right, or worse yet have horrible quality building go out with defects everywhere.

Just a shame. But not surprised at all. Developer probably took a big hit as a result.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Gummozebra

Can somebody share the cancellation notice?

Applauding the developer of at least doing the right thing and refunding the deposit, although most likely without interest. This is a much better scenario vs the building breaking ground but having problems left and right, or worse yet have horrible quality building go out with defects everywhere.

Just a shame. But not surprised at all. Developer probably took a big hit as a result.

I could be wrong (someone smarter than me please comment) but I do think you earn some interest while the money is in trust. When I put money down for my apartment in Park Place, I earned a small amount of interest I had to record on my tax return each year. It wasn't much like GIC level interest, but still not $0.

[Ailurus]

It’s been interesting to see some of the recent developments coming up in the Surrey/South Fraser Updates thread, and I’ve been thinking a lot about how “Inexperience” doesn’t just seem to excuse how weirdly things progressed on this project.

It would be great if forumers with more development experience could weigh in… In retrospect, I think there were some inexplicably bad management decisions being made.

That post about Belvedere selling out in 72 hours inspired me to look into that file more on Cosmos. Based on the Cosmos file, the building permit for that site was submitted back in Oct. 2020, and is probably still processing. So the lag time from going from sales to construction start will be minor probably.

But in this topic, the Avani Centre unit selling seems to start around May/June 2018. But I know for a fact that the consultants only got their building permit documentation completed in December 2018, and this is corroborated by the COSMOS file, which says the BP intake date was Dec 6 2018.

So that’s already a departure from the norm - selling for 6 months before even applying for the building permit in one of the slowest municipalities in the province to approve building permits? Very odd. Plus, if Gummo’s quotes are correct, they were telling their clients about a potential fall 2018 construction start…months before even applying for permit?

Compare this to other projects in Surrey City Centre – two of which seem to be headed up by equally “inexperienced” developers:

• Grand on King George, which is just in pre-registration, but has already applied for their BP (COSMOS file says BP in date was Jan. 13 2021: https://apps.surrey.ca/Online-Development-Inquiry/?year=19&seq=0048). “Allure Ventures Inc.” has no prior highrise development experience.

• Ascent (10440 Whalley blvd) – Just starting pre-registration, but has applied for a building permit. (COSMOS file says BP in date was Dec 11 2020: https://apps.surrey.ca/Online-Development-Inquiry/?year=19&seq=0202. “Maple Leaf Homes.” has no prior highrise development experience.

• Thind’s site flanking the Skytrain also hasn’t even started with marketing, and they’ve already applied for their building permit (COSMOS file says BP in date was Dec 14 2020: https://apps.surrey.ca/Online-Development-Inquiry/?year=19&seq=0223)

• Bosa Brightside Phase 1– also no marketing yet, but has applied for building permit. (COSMOS file says BP in date was Dec 14 2020: https://apps.surrey.ca/Online-Development-Inquiry/?year=18&seq=0350

(Incidentally, this may be a good indicator that we should start seeing movement on Brightside and Thind Towers very soon…)

Spring-ish of 2019 was when I started working with the psycho who I talked about in earlier posts. We were working on value engineering about $2 million off of the project, including cutting an entire level of parking out of the basement, and reducing the size of the rooftop crown.

So that’s another major departure from the norm – trying to value engineer $2 million or so out of the project after you’ve been selling for 9 months? And trying to remove whole levels of parking after having an approved development permit and an in-stream building permit?

The whole thing is just bizarre.

I guess when the inevitable lawsuits start flying, the truth will come out…

[Westbased]

^^just has a FYI, Maple Leaf Homes actually developed Delta Rise. So they do have some experience building high-rise now.

[GMasterAres]

I think this development was a bit of a comedy of errors. If there is any big "inexperienced" flag, it is that they put it on sale too early and I think clearly pushed to sell the condos before they fully secured the major hotel tenant.

They also ran into the COVID crisis which dropped hotel business considerably and effectively killed tourism and given, without the anchor hotel, they were unable to proceed financially, it again points to the fact they rushed too quickly without having all their ducks in a row.

Also spot on that they seemed to do the whole building permit / presales backwards as you're right most towers that go to presales already have been through the planning process and are either working on service agreements or have a provisional BP in place.

If I was to guess (and this is just pure speculation), they couldn't secure a hotel chain at the start so rushed to sell pre-sale condo units at inflated prices to show there was serious demand for the project and that they could ultimately secure that hotel chain. It's a huge risk and clearly that didn't pay off.

It is also not unprecedented that condos precede commercial/retail as we see that all the time in mixed use. Look at Hub right now, it was entirely sold out condo wise before the first tenant was landed for the commercial/retail side. But HUB isn't throwing all its eggs in one basket aka 1 major tenant (hotel), they have multiple potential tenants so the risk is MUCH lower going that route (or the route buildings like 3 Civic went which does have a major hotel component but also has commercial space + ground level retail, and many more condo units to reduce overall risk).

Honestly if they remove the hotel component entirely and build a 30-odd storey condo only tower with some ground level retail, I'd put money it would sell out and they'd be able to build.

[Gummozebra]

It's a shame that this building will not go up - but maybe a blessing indeed as opposed to a value engineered, half-effort bad quality of an eye-sore with angry owners.

[Flynn86]

It still shocks me how this development couldn't sell out or even sell enough units to get going with how crazy the market has been. I wonder of they'll change the name, do some little tweaks and try again to sell this project.

[Flynn86]

https://fifthave.ca/projects/avani-centre/ how true could this be???

[MovieBuff]

Originally Posted by Flynn86

https://fifthave.ca/projects/avani-centre/ how true could this be???

That is very old...

[Ailurus]

Aaaaand...a completely new rezoning application has been submitted for the site. This one is officially dead.

https://apps.surrey.ca/Online-Development-Inquiry/?year=23&seq=0041

I am going to wager that the site was sold to a different developer, considering that the proposal now calls for a standard strata tower/commercial podium with a rental walk-up - not something the previous developer was in to. Whole new architect too.

[dferch]

I'm just surprised it didnt happen sooner since it's such a good location

[e-clam9]

Originally Posted by dferch

I'm just surprised it didn't happen sooner since it's such a good location

I guess the longer they wait, the higher the land price....

Many developers own lands in the city and they don't have any hurry to build. Some lands are vacant for many years..

I believe if gov charges a big vacant land tax, the realty market can quickly cool down when developers hurry to build out their vacant lands....

[Cypherus]

New proposal on the Avani site. No more hotel; a new partner, and a revised design that is a big improvement compared to the previous one. Hopefully this one proceeds forward.



Source: http://surreycitycentre.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/City-Centre-Update-2023-08.pdf

[osirisboy]

Looks bland af. Massive downgrade from the original

[Repthe250]

No more Hotel? Damn. Surrey desperately needs more hotels, especially downtown.