The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Of course, and my point was that the Canadiens are functionally somewhat the former, so the fans' attitude should be judged accordingly. Hockey is the national sport of Quebec and that's as close to our national team as it gets.

Hence the frequent comparisons to FC Barcelona.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The traditional perception is not really in line with the current reality. It feels like you'd have to go back to the early 90s to find a time when the Canadiens still felt like a predominantly Francophone team, at least as far as the players are concerned.
.

In my observation, the decline of the Habs as a team with a very prominent francophone character began a bit before then, around the mid-80s when the legends from the 70s were gone for good. Though there were still blips after that as you point out, but the overall decline in "Frenchness" (sic) is a constant trend.

Though of course the Habs always had a significant anglophone component all through their history, even during the Flying Frenchmen years. Half or more of the team's historic ''legends'' are probably anglophones.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hence the frequent comparisons to FC Barcelona.

The difference being that FC Barcelona is fan-owned and the Canadiens are not, instead being owned by a family in a franchise business structure.

Perhaps Habs fans can pool together some dollars to buy the team. Should only cost $1.5B or so. Maybe the province can buy them and have them play at Videotron.

Originally Posted by esquire

Bringing it back to Tremblay, his column implies that the "old way" is the ideal state of affairs when the reality is that the Habs' new normal is a team made up almost exclusively of non-Quebecers.

It feels like the author would rather have a team full of Quebecers come dead last in the league every year rather than having a competitive team of non-QCers. The days of Quebec hockey being dominant are long gone despite the author's desires. Sideways referring to Suzuki as Chinese is just the icing on the racism cake.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by JHikka

"So, all is well as long as we win, the CH could play 20 Chinese and that would be perfect.

Note that if the KHL manages to convince the Chinese to take up hockey, we may end up with 20 Fang Wongs in 20 years."



https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2021/02/05/un-amour-a-sens-unique

John Lu rightly addressed this on twitter.
https://twitter.com/JohnLuTSNMtl/status/1358906604364713985

Eric Engels
@EricEngels
How shocking that a guy who once wrote that Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier were offering "the final solution" to the french question--he actually used those words--wrote this. If his editors let him publish that, of course they'd let him publish this. Disgrace. He's trash.

What the hell is the issue, something is missing?

What does the chinese KHL team currently playing out of central europe have to do with anything?

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by lio45

I think New World Anglosphere culture has lost touch with the (factual, not unreasonable) notion of ethnostate to the point that some of you guys' definition of racism is now completely warped. To me, it's not abnormal to have "our" sports team.

Out of curiosity, what would you think of the following statement; reasonable or not?

"Should Poland ever win the World Cup, most Poles are of the opinion that it would be nice if there were at least some Polish players on that winning team, rather than if it simply were a team composed 100% of extremely highly-paid soccer superstar foreigners who have never set foot in Poland in their lives, don't speak any Polish, and are just wearing the white and red jerseys for the money. The former would be a source of national pride to some degree; the latter, not so much."

To me, that's not racist. To some Anglo-Canadians, it definitely is. In a nutshell, the issue here is that they don't understand that Poland isn't a cultural and ethnic blank state; to them, the Brazilian soccer star who gets paid a gazillion dollars to start to play for Poland is just as Polish as anyone.

Regardlesss of where someone "is from" ever country has a vested interest in their top of the pyramid being reflective of the bottom of the pyramid.

I welcome foreigners in the CHL, and regardless of background I'm hostile to players that chose the American college based system.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In my observation, the decline of the Habs as a team with a very prominent francophone character began a bit before then, around the mid-80s when the legends from the 70s were gone for good. Though there were still blips after that as you point out, but the overall decline in "Frenchness" (sic) is a constant trend.

Though of course the Habs always had a significant anglophone component all through their history, even during the Flying Frenchmen years. Half or more of the team's historic ''legends'' are probably anglophones.

Isn't this when they lost exclusive drafting rights to quebec talent?

If the french are serious about maintaining french hockey, the should fix their fight club league.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

Isn't this when they lost exclusive drafting rights to quebec talent?
.

I think that that was done away with in the late 1960s when they expanded beyond the Original Six.

Guy Lafleur was drafted by the Habs around 1970, so by then there was a draft.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The difference being that FC Barcelona is fan-owned and the Canadiens are not, instead being owned by a family in a franchise business structure.

Perhaps Habs fans can pool together some dollars to buy the team. Should only cost $1.5B or so. Maybe the province can buy them and have them play at Videotron.

True, but it doesn't take anything away from the feelings.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In my observation, the decline of the Habs as a team with a very prominent francophone character began a bit before then, around the mid-80s when the legends from the 70s were gone for good. Though there were still blips after that as you point out, but the overall decline in "Frenchness" (sic) is a constant trend.

Though of course the Habs always had a significant anglophone component all through their history, even during the Flying Frenchmen years. Half or more of the team's historic ''legends'' are probably anglophones.

Yeah, I realize it was waning by the 90s but thinking back to 92-93 there were still some very prominent Quebec names on that team... Damphousse, Roy, Carbonneau, the coach Demers, etc. Looking back at it, the team had a distinctively Quebec identity... way more than they do now.

The world has changed since then, but apparently not every sportswriter got the memo.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that that was done away with in the late 1960s when they expanded beyond the Original Six.

Guy Lafleur was drafted by the Habs around 1970, so by then there was a draft.

I'm sure even with the draft it'd take a few years for scouts to infiltrate the territory.

Also keep in mind the Euro Invasion watered down Canadian talent virtually everywhere.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It feels like the author would rather have a team full of Quebecers come dead last in the league every year rather than having a competitive team of non-QCers

Many people in Quebec would indeed prefer this. I know I would. It would be way more interesting in my opinion.

What's the pleasure in watching mercenaries who don't speak the local language, don't really care about the history of the team and where they are playing? How can you get the same attachment to players who are exchanged after a few years instead of being part of the team's tradition in the long run.

I stopped being a fan in the middle 90's, when the proportion of Québécois and/or French-speaking anglophones went down drastically - and when the Nordiques moved from Quebec City to Colorado. "Hating" the Nordiques was part of the fun. Many of my friends stopped being 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 fans too. The Canadiens still has lots of fans, but the waiting list to get season tickets is much shorter than it used to be...

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by begratto

Many people in Quebec would indeed prefer this. I know I would. It would be way more interesting in my opinion.

What's the pleasure in watching mercenaries who don't speak the local language, don't really care about the history of the team and where they are playing? How can you get the same attachment to players who are exchanged after a few years instead of being part of the team's tradition in the long run.

I stopped being a fan in the middle 90's, when the proportion of Québécois and/or French-speaking anglophones went down drastically - and when the Nordiques moved from Quebec City to Colorado. Many of my friends did too. The Canadiens still has lots of fans, but the waiting list to get season tickets is much shorter than it used to be...

The part I don't understand is why there isn't a stronger french only Quebec league. Sorta like an AHL equivalent, where speaking french is a requirement.

I take it as a given that Canada has a big gap between minor league and major league sports.

If QC never gets into the NHL seems likely they should start something with such a nice arena.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Sideways referring to Suzuki as Chinese is just the icing on the racism cake.

I don't follow hockey closely so I'm not familiar with the Habs' full roster but just to clarify,

was the author referring to one or more foreign national(s) who is are Chinese citizens but imported to play for the current Habs roster? Or is he referring to Nick Suzuki, who is Japanese-Canadian, and born and raised in London ON?

(note that I'm not just trying to be all "Quebec is the most racist part of Canada" - most people in NS would assert that NS is the most racist part of Canada - and in fact I would agree that Acajack's recent posts on other racist incidents are completely in the spirit of this thread, whether or not he was being serious.)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by begratto

What's the pleasure in watching mercenaries who don't speak the local language, don't really care about the history of the team and where they are playing? How can you get the same attachment to players who are exchanged after a few years instead of being part of the team's tradition in the long run.

One important question seems to be whether or not race would be a "deal breaker" in this. For example if you had somebody of Chinese ancestry, born in China, who grew up in Quebec, knew about the local culture, spoke French, and was really good at hockey, would people in Quebec have a problem with this person being on the team?

My impression is no. Sports seem pretty meritocratic in the sense that fans tend to like whoever is winning (although the "pipeline" of who gets the opportunity to develop their skill may not be equally open to everyone).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

One important question seems to be whether or not race would be a "deal breaker" in this. For example if you had somebody of Chinese ancestry, born in China, who grew up in Quebec, knew about the local culture, spoke French, and was really good at hockey, would people in Quebec have a problem with this person being on the team?

.

You mean like Georges Laraque? (Not Asian, I know. But still.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w58Q7US3Ilk

[begratto]

Originally Posted by someone123

One important question seems to be whether or not race would be a "deal breaker" in this. For example if you had somebody of Chinese ancestry, born in China, who grew up in Quebec, knew about the local culture, spoke French, and was really good at hockey, would people in Quebec have a problem with this person being on the team?

My impression is no. Sports seem pretty meritocratic in the sense that fans tend to like whoever is winning (although the "pipeline" of who gets the opportunity to develop their skill may not be equally open to everyone).

They would be "part of the gang", so no, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Acajack]

From time to time SSP and other forums discuss Quebec having its own hockey team at international competitions.

There is actually a foundation that is working on this (not just for hockey, but for other sports too).

I think some of you guys might want to learn more about this, and the movement's figurehead:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Quebec/comments...%A0_la_fondation_%C3%A9quipequ%C3%A9bec/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I don't follow hockey closely so I'm not familiar with the Habs' full roster but just to clarify,

was the author referring to one or more foreign national(s) who is are Chinese citizens but imported to play for the current Habs roster? Or is he referring to Nick Suzuki, who is Japanese-Canadian, and born and raised in London ON?

(.)

Réjean Tremblay was partly being silly, partly being a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 and partly being an old curmudgeon.

There's not really much there TBQH.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

I'm sure even with the draft it'd take a few years for scouts to infiltrate the territory.
.

Hockey lore suggests that the Habs (who had a pretty good team during that era) deliberately tanked in the season before Lafleur was eligible for the draft so they could finish last and pick him.

Not sure if there is any truth to that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

(note that I'm not just trying to be all "Quebec is the most racist part of Canada" - most people in NS would assert that NS is the most racist part of Canada - and in fact I would agree that Acajack's recent posts on other racist incidents are completely in the spirit of this thread, whether or not he was being serious.)

I was being a bit silly but those are real incidents for sure.

Which part of Canada is the most racist is not really a game I enjoy playing. But if others want to play it, I can sure play along too.